From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B516138E66 for ; Sun, 23 Feb 2014 22:33:04 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 9819CE0AA2; Sun, 23 Feb 2014 22:32:51 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-wg0-f50.google.com (mail-wg0-f50.google.com [74.125.82.50]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6C8E8E0A85 for ; Sun, 23 Feb 2014 22:32:50 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-wg0-f50.google.com with SMTP id z12so4105573wgg.29 for ; Sun, 23 Feb 2014 14:32:49 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=1thQwtjUGsrP9cn6Pnoc02JvYDWGLkOblJOisqNc8MM=; b=0usWiaSw25EpBXI322I/u5X54V2fJaWcRr8Ak4DjHMQaQeWO7LVtbNNt9Hb+2+saBT PqUjQoa/prmZyp2qS4KxJG4pOoexy3MTny3oVjrQLP8+FsihN/0dG5MX/ApywvLQDal/ bXyO1jDCAaYPQyC8l4GfOGvEholI68xtF/9aXvWAARFIDgfIufQ1ENsBwL133GmmnRL2 BYE3/mS0fPZo77EwxiPP+Qhgd0NLjLrwBTFeR2D7L2SXLN6Ew6ibTELzoN8M5tQuOCwe u6ob0gn1aKff65zfRtH4PjBuz18WWT6IubC4RFDhtqDpwQqq9iH27IaCLrh2yj2Bw+Ed aAIg== X-Received: by 10.194.216.68 with SMTP id oo4mr15988211wjc.79.1393194769111; Sun, 23 Feb 2014 14:32:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from [172.20.0.40] (196-210-127-208.dynamic.isadsl.co.za. [196.210.127.208]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id ff7sm18307402wic.10.2014.02.23.14.32.48 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Sun, 23 Feb 2014 14:32:48 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <530A7700.4030809@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2014 00:32:32 +0200 From: Alan McKinnon User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.3.0 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Debian just voted in systemd for default init system in jessie References: <52FF84CE.2050301@libertytrek.org> <5301B3E1.3000007@yandex.ru> <201402231335.31992.michaelkintzios@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Archives-Salt: f86aea83-0837-4c03-bb59-1508e98250fd X-Archives-Hash: 44214b3d089de387cac90a9e59ecfd12 On 23/02/2014 20:18, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote: > I don't think forking would attract much developers. Writing something > new trying to follow "the*nix design principles", but being modern and > with the same features (all of them optional, of course) of systemd > will have more chances; although I think it will fail because most of > the people that can code "better" actually like the systemd design, > and would prefer to contribute to it. > > And if you found enough of this mythical good-coders, good luck > defining what it means "the*nix design principles". I've been wondering about this concept of "the*nix design principles"... I've now concluded it's a myth, much like invisible pink unicorns. Is it like the kernel? A huge monolithic chunk of code with support for modules? Is it like X11? A huge monolithic chunk of code that has a bizarre build system for years, and took something like 5 years of hard work to get it modular? And is 20 years behind the times? And *still* requires devs to jump through hoops to get a rendered image through a compositor and back up the the GPU? Is it like perl? Support every possible way to do something if it remotely makes sense to do it, no matter how bizarre the syntax? Is it like python? Pick ONE way to do it and stick with it dammit! Is it like php? Do whatever you feel like? Is it like command line text processing tools that only do one narrow thing well? [1] Is it like bash? I can't find a decent description of how bash came to be except it's like Vogons - wasn't designed and didn't evolve, it just sort of ... congealed Not to rain on anyone's parade, but there's a prize of 40 internets up for the first person who can clearly and unambiguously define "Unix design principles" with specificity so that it is globally applicable. Best I can come up with is "Use common sense and build stuff that can be used and maintained" which is wonderfully descriptive but really sucks as a definition. [1] For lack of a better term, let's just call systemd here a "system controller". What is this ONE thing a system controller should do and do it well? -- Alan McKinnon alan.mckinnon@gmail.com