From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73B91138E20 for ; Fri, 21 Feb 2014 20:03:33 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 3B079E0B88; Fri, 21 Feb 2014 20:03:19 +0000 (UTC) Received: from homiemail-a59.g.dreamhost.com (caibbdcaaagb.dreamhost.com [208.113.200.61]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F9A0E0AC4 for ; Fri, 21 Feb 2014 20:03:18 +0000 (UTC) Received: from homiemail-a59.g.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by homiemail-a59.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 783EE56406D for ; Fri, 21 Feb 2014 12:03:17 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=libertytrek.org; h= message-id:date:from:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s= libertytrek.org; bh=k8gj5JWZ2KlHjX6LAvxBmGwag7w=; b=qx7iWS18XNgj 2wEFKk0Hg0xyV++4vewMxboV6Jp6t/TyCkk1SnGoFCpFO4JUitibgH5B8T/nAFM7 bFv56mXsEcdbtGqwlF2cr0qoHIUL6ckD2fsiCzLwhbB/NaOtwUFiGmhMj+12x8br fx+4otiIZvm9F2N3Z7ubK+I/NIc6Fmo= Received: from [127.0.0.1] (unknown [159.63.145.2]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: tanstaafl@libertytrek.org) by homiemail-a59.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 5B3F0564056 for ; Fri, 21 Feb 2014 12:03:17 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <5307B0E1.7080502@libertytrek.org> Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 15:02:41 -0500 From: Tanstaafl User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.2.0 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: OT: 'profit motive' - WAS Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Debian just voted in systemd for default init system in jessie References: <52FF84CE.2050301@libertytrek.org> <52FF9D58.3000608@libertytrek.org> <52FFCE52.5060401@sporkbox.us> <5306990B.1030506@sporkbox.us> <5306BC47.9080803@sporkbox.us> <5307537F.5020506@libertytrek.org> <530755DE.7060007@sporkbox.us> <530757EE.204@libertytrek.org> <53075A91.2070903@sporkbox.us> <53075CC3.1030104@libertytrek.org> <5307711d.c5670e0a.2915.701e@mx.google.com> <5307772F.2010708@libertytrek.org> <53077D8A.3070402@gentoo.org> <530783E8.1050502@libertytrek.org> <53078A14.5060304@gentoo.org> <53079562.9040200@libertytrek.org> <5307AA8B.6060202@gentoo.org> In-Reply-To: <5307AA8B.6060202@gentoo.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archives-Salt: f97ed921-41b9-47d3-b77c-8319e988710a X-Archives-Hash: e8ede84460256dcec2edfa524c90a589 On 2014-02-21 2:35 PM, hasufell wrote: > Tanstaafl: >> On 2014-02-21 12:17 PM, hasufell wrote: >>> Then you ignore self-destructive behaviour which is a common >>> thing in this world. It can even be intentional, causing no >>> emotional, financial, social or intellectual profit. Maybe you >>> have never met such a person or have never been in such an >>> environment. >> You are confusing 'intent' with 'result'. > No. You are confusing yourself with the rest of the world. Not really, but whatever... >> Even self-destructive behavior is in the vast majority of cases >> engaged in with the *intention* of profit. Best example I can think >> of would be a drug addict/alcoholic. When they use/drink, they >> 'profit' in that the feel better (albeit temporarily), regardless >> of the ultimate result. > I wasn't really talking about drug addicts. You said 'self-destructive', so I just used the best 'self-destructive' reference I could think of... > If you are interested in real self-destructive behaviour, talk to > someone who has worked in an asylum which is only one interesting > environment that can make you think very different about "people". Ok, well, I wasn't talking about the truly *insane*, and it is disingenuous to use them as any kind of example in comparison to 'the rest of us'... > There are even people who are not driven by anything, not even > self-destruction. Pure apathy. I guarantee they are driven by more than that... often something as simple as 'comfort' (they would only get up in arms if you take away their TV and potato chips)... > Another interesting thing... talk to a trial lawyer who has been in > that business for 10+ years. I really doubt that many of those will > support your "profit intention" concept. Most of the time it's about > short-cut reactions that are merely following instincts or emotional > impulses. Strong emotions can make someone lose control and do all > sorts of weird things without any hope or intention of > improving/gaining anything for living it out. Again, you ignore the different meanings of 'profit' and 'intent'. Following instincts or emotional impulses is *still* operating on the same principle. The profit (benefit) they get may be as simple as 'less pain', but it is still a benefit (profit). > It's chemistry, it changes your consciousness. "Profit" is a bit more > complex and requires a minimum amount of reflection, even if it is > subconscious, short sighted and follows false assumptions. Not at all. A bull 'profits' by moving when the cattle prod is jammed up his ass. > So these are just 3 points why your generalization does not work, Actually, they all serve to *support* my generalizations... if you are in fact honest enough to admit it.