From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 559D7138E20 for ; Fri, 21 Feb 2014 15:23:20 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 46053E0BAA; Fri, 21 Feb 2014 15:23:15 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-ea0-f179.google.com (mail-ea0-f179.google.com [209.85.215.179]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1A259E0B10 for ; Fri, 21 Feb 2014 15:23:13 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-ea0-f179.google.com with SMTP id q10so1649729ead.24 for ; Fri, 21 Feb 2014 07:23:12 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=SjvjHtU/BX0abdfGWzXY4uNzx9/+2I0L+2ot77s/SBg=; b=eXx2+hI7auVPt5zOQd0/NUKea/Qw5bipgIlz+vJOPy3ZS9HsB0sTX9c7waYZwKMaYJ add/Sf//hGKNcB6UMdg2cMQvjtPn5bcpsLG9Lel6f9gJGhHxLaYwey6js9x5CEgLYeJ9 Z2zr3n8FU+PM9iqWbXCNf113I9bpFOXIudGzKUGh2kQTV97zPrKZiPzdwjaURoIOrgwF 8Wf9ECTgNAIpG4gymBV4wk2KFIo+7FcgNhAmipfzkygn6tXxSFAd5nREqR6WvAfmsiuU s9PHFup71hZvsPHz+L3VkzpsStw5GQGhLWSaVYJ6defsTUdKuCbX5shkVlFdbqUTJhBe SuGw== X-Received: by 10.14.1.68 with SMTP id 44mr9273280eec.0.1392996192701; Fri, 21 Feb 2014 07:23:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost ([193.200.85.246]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id f45sm27572934eeg.5.2014.02.21.07.23.10 for (version=SSLv3 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Fri, 21 Feb 2014 07:23:11 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <53076f5f.c5670e0a.2915.6bcd@mx.google.com> Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 17:20:56 +0200 From: Gevisz To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Debian just voted in systemd for default init system in jessie In-Reply-To: <53075C77.5040505@libertytrek.org> References: <52FF84CE.2050301@libertytrek.org> <53012691.6040503@googlemail.com> <20140217215255.5766cb026df2f0b8002f8702@gmail.com> <5302c048.462f0e0a.3d3e.5888@mx.google.com> <20140218210633.d25f4bb88b3891f7c0ed11c6@gmail.com> <20140218220712.9ec8d2529ef49d743b3bc826@gmail.com> <5304576E.4000704@sporkbox.us> <5304A5DE.4050905@libertytrek.org> <5305FACC.8080705@libertytrek.org> <53075C77.5040505@libertytrek.org> Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archives-Salt: 40a85ad3-248c-4e60-8b22-1b2325253fdd X-Archives-Hash: a205a36ef93c5eaea3430614dab0e76c On Fri, 21 Feb 2014 09:02:31 -0500 Tanstaafl wrote: > On 2014-02-20 10:36 PM, Mark David Dumlao wrote: > > On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 8:53 PM, Tanstaafl > > wrote: > >> Sorry, Canek, no offense was intended, but if you go back and > >> re-read your 'extremely overly enthusiastic' post (this plus the > >> content is why I referred to it as a 'rant'), while I agree with > >> most everything you said, your primary point - that it should be > >> the people who *don't* want systemd doing all of the work - was > >> backwards, and that was what I wanted to point out. > > > I'm afraid this is the part that's backwards. > > You are wrong. > > >> So, please, don't take it as an insult. In fact you have done a > >> very good job of patiently spelling out the advantages of systemd, > >> to the point I'm no longer afraid of it taking over and devouring > >> the linux world. > > > If systemd truly is, as you say "taking over and devouring the > > linux world" > > *I* never said that. Others have though, and some still apparently > believe this to be the case. Admittedly it is those voices that > prompted me to start this thread. Do you hear voices? :-) > I wanted to get opinions from other > list members about how systemd is/will/should impact the gentoo > community, and I'm glad I did. The result is that I now no longer > believe most of the negatives being spread about systemd, and no > longer fear that it is 'taking over and devouring the linux world'. > > > such that the majority of distro maintainers are individually > > choosing to use a feature or two from it, then yes, it definitely is > > the job of people who want to opt out of it to do the work. > > You would be right IF - and I repeat IF - it weren't for the little > inconvenient fact that OpenRC, not systemd, is the default init > system in gentoo, now, and thankfully for the foreseeable future. I > say thankfully not because I fear systemd, but because I would much > prefer to let systemd mature with others using it to flesh out any > bugs or other problems/issues (technical *and* political). > > As long as OpenRC is the default init system in Gentoo, it is on > those who want something *other* than OpenRC (ie, systemd) to do the > work of implementing it. > > Why is it so difficult to see that? > > Even Canek already acknowledged the correctness of this position. > > >> Bottom line: since Gentoo's default and primary init system is (and > >> hopefully will be for a very long time) OpenRC, it is on the > >> systemd folks to do the work to get systemd fully supported. > > > systemd IS supported and working. The problem arises when there are > > people that want to push for a "system with no systemd whatsoever" > > and act like it's the systemd maintainer's job to make that happen. > > Thankfully there is no problem then, since no one is pushing for 'a > system with no systemd whatsoever', beyond what exists already. > > All I am interested in is keeping the systemd proponents in their > place. As the 'new kid on the block', when 'invading' (for lack of a > better term) a new distro (in this case, gentoo), it is *on them* to > provide the methods and means for people interested in trying/using > systemd on said distro, but most importantly to do so *without* > impacting existing users who want to continue using the *existing*, > *default* init system for their distro. > > Are you seriously disagreeing with this position? >