From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0EA5E138E20 for ; Fri, 21 Feb 2014 14:51:07 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 5F6D2E0CC4; Fri, 21 Feb 2014 14:51:02 +0000 (UTC) Received: from homiemail-a46.g.dreamhost.com (caibbdcaacfb.dreamhost.com [208.113.200.251]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 343C1E0BAB for ; Fri, 21 Feb 2014 14:51:01 +0000 (UTC) Received: from homiemail-a46.g.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by homiemail-a46.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE4863E405C for ; Fri, 21 Feb 2014 06:51:00 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=libertytrek.org; h= message-id:date:from:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s= libertytrek.org; bh=vp9fcWpmB5SzLWc4MpPpf4u0NF4=; b=LgSqK8tm4ppC ZW98qLi2j0FAbAvenz1Krd+sVjXlayuG0YLhvnPSysVx4VYpA3qLXmfE7TdKSRcL IMoKenh6Y068cU9leJip/7jaVMK5whoMi3WOWwJ3pIn+MCg8bQAd46t/TE/mXYxf hQu84yGppDB4ELshdFYSK0IDNtr/UnU= Received: from [127.0.0.1] (unknown [159.63.145.2]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: tanstaafl@libertytrek.org) by homiemail-a46.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 8AA2C3E4057 for ; Fri, 21 Feb 2014 06:51:00 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <530767B0.6000607@libertytrek.org> Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 09:50:24 -0500 From: Tanstaafl User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.2.0 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Debian just voted in systemd for default init system in jessie References: <52FF84CE.2050301@libertytrek.org> <53012691.6040503@googlemail.com> <20140217215255.5766cb026df2f0b8002f8702@gmail.com> <5302c048.462f0e0a.3d3e.5888@mx.google.com> <20140218210633.d25f4bb88b3891f7c0ed11c6@gmail.com> <20140218220712.9ec8d2529ef49d743b3bc826@gmail.com> <5304576E.4000704@sporkbox.us> <5304A5DE.4050905@libertytrek.org> <5305FACC.8080705@libertytrek.org> <53075C77.5040505@libertytrek.org> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archives-Salt: a3fb836f-6127-4084-ae48-69541c5cb218 X-Archives-Hash: 9cbd024719d3f20f5d9c3cd571dd9aa1 On 2014-02-21 9:28 AM, Mark David Dumlao wrote: > It is one thing entirely to say you don't like some software, and > another thing entirely to obligate everyone else in the world to > never depend on it. All myself and others have been insisting on is that systemd proponents be prevented from unilaterally creating some kind of dependenc[y][ies] whereby, through that backdoor, they create a situation where the *current* *default* init system must be switched. > Your preference of uclibc doesn't obligate every C project in the > world to disavow glibc. > > Your preference of firefox doesn't obligate every desktop > environment in the world to disavow chromium. And your preference for systemd doesn't obligate your distro of choice to change to it as the *default* init system. > Your preference of openrc doesn't obligate every package maintainer > in the world to disavow systemd. No one is asking for that. Again, we are just insisting that systemd proponents be prevented from forcing gentoo into a situation where we are *forced* to switch to systemd for the *default* init system. > Hence the general case above. If you want to use foo without using > bar, but the upstream and package maintainers of foo want to use > bar, then it's _your_ responsibility to make foo work without bar. > PERIOD. I agree... so, if *you* want to use systemd, it is *your* reponsibility to make systemd work without impacting existing gentoo users *or* the fact that gentoo has selected OpenRC as it's default init system. > You were making it sound like it's the responsibility of the > developers of bar to package versions of foo that don't depend on > bar. This is madness. Nope, and you are missing the point. This isn't about individual packages. It is about one of the choices that *Distro's* must make - in this case, regarding something very significant (the choice of what to use as the default init system). We, again, are simply insisting that it is the responsibility of the developers of systemd to *not* create situations where they *force* other distro's into *impossible* *situations* where they are *forced* to switch their init systems or have basic system packages stop working. The best way for gentoo, as a distro, to protect its users and it's ecosystem, is to provide a sane, managed approach for systemd proponents to get systemd added to gentoo as a formally supported *optional* init system. Then, and only then, can it be judged on its *merits*, and then and *only* then should it (imnsho) ever be considered as a potential candidate for being made a new *default*.