Re: [gentoo-user] Debian just voted in systemd for default init system in jessie

[Tanstaafl <tanstaafl@libertytrek.org>]

On 2014-02-21 9:28 AM, Mark David Dumlao <madumlao@gmail.com> wrote:
> It is one thing entirely to say you don't like some software, and
> another thing entirely to obligate everyone else in the world to
> never depend on it.

All myself and others have been insisting on is that systemd proponents 
be prevented from unilaterally creating some kind of dependenc[y][ies] 
whereby, through that backdoor, they create a situation where the 
*current* *default* init system must be switched.

> Your preference of uclibc doesn't obligate every C project in the
> world to disavow glibc.
>
> Your preference of firefox doesn't obligate every desktop
> environment in the world to disavow chromium.

And your preference for systemd doesn't obligate your distro of choice 
to change to it as the *default* init system.

> Your preference of openrc doesn't obligate every package maintainer
> in the world to disavow systemd.

No one is asking for that.

Again, we are just insisting that systemd proponents be prevented from 
forcing gentoo into a situation where we are *forced* to switch to 
systemd for the *default* init system.

> Hence the general case above. If you want to use foo without using
> bar, but the upstream and package maintainers of foo want to use
> bar, then it's _your_ responsibility to make foo work without bar.
> PERIOD.

I agree... so, if *you* want to use systemd, it is *your* reponsibility 
to make systemd work without impacting existing gentoo users *or* the 
fact that gentoo has selected OpenRC as it's default init system.

> You were making it sound like it's the responsibility of the
> developers of bar to package versions of foo that don't depend on
> bar. This is madness.

Nope, and you are missing the point.

This isn't about individual packages. It is about one of the choices 
that *Distro's* must make - in this case, regarding something very 
significant (the choice of what to use as the default init system).

We, again, are simply insisting that it is the responsibility of the 
developers of systemd to *not* create situations where they *force* 
other distro's into *impossible* *situations* where they are *forced* to 
switch their init systems or have basic system packages stop working.

The best way for gentoo, as a distro, to protect its users and it's 
ecosystem, is to provide a sane, managed approach for systemd proponents 
to get systemd added to gentoo as a formally supported *optional* init 
system.

Then, and only then, can it be judged on its *merits*, and then and 
*only* then should it (imnsho) ever be considered as a potential 
candidate for being made a new *default*.