From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E03C8138E20 for ; Fri, 21 Feb 2014 14:03:15 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 47433E0AE9; Fri, 21 Feb 2014 14:03:09 +0000 (UTC) Received: from homiemail-a68.g.dreamhost.com (caibbdcaacbh.dreamhost.com [208.113.200.217]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 29BD2E09C4 for ; Fri, 21 Feb 2014 14:03:08 +0000 (UTC) Received: from homiemail-a68.g.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by homiemail-a68.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5EEDD400F8609 for ; Fri, 21 Feb 2014 06:03:07 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=libertytrek.org; h= message-id:date:from:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s= libertytrek.org; bh=094ydfeHLGXE81FDy/uvT4ClT7o=; b=wNFgOxRJB6Fo TaazeqXGQLKQuIW+UEtjK8cav36B0+RsbpHYl/pkk/zymae4qOlcHvHXF/1VbUrR TE/gjby5kfX2M0noOwJ7JzPWAVlfmq3BHzFIiN8ErvajGBM6AhOR3ZJ5EqVsebts xcLVAcgkoAkkkqs3A56AZ8PIsRv4f8M= Received: from [127.0.0.1] (unknown [159.63.145.2]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: tanstaafl@libertytrek.org) by homiemail-a68.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 41356400F8604 for ; Fri, 21 Feb 2014 06:03:07 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <53075C77.5040505@libertytrek.org> Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 09:02:31 -0500 From: Tanstaafl User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.2.0 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Debian just voted in systemd for default init system in jessie References: <52FF84CE.2050301@libertytrek.org> <53010A8E.2050909@googlemail.com> <53012691.6040503@googlemail.com> <20140217215255.5766cb026df2f0b8002f8702@gmail.com> <5302c048.462f0e0a.3d3e.5888@mx.google.com> <20140218210633.d25f4bb88b3891f7c0ed11c6@gmail.com> <20140218220712.9ec8d2529ef49d743b3bc826@gmail.com> <5304576E.4000704@sporkbox.us> <5304A5DE.4050905@libertytrek.org> <5305FACC.8080705@libertytrek.org> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archives-Salt: 24fffa32-b800-4ccb-aafd-6ebfa18a51b9 X-Archives-Hash: 1f37eacafa761d9c02cf432dd60b3145 On 2014-02-20 10:36 PM, Mark David Dumlao wrote: > On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 8:53 PM, Tanstaafl wrote: >> Sorry, Canek, no offense was intended, but if you go back and re-read your >> 'extremely overly enthusiastic' post (this plus the content is why I >> referred to it as a 'rant'), while I agree with most everything you said, >> your primary point - that it should be the people who *don't* want systemd >> doing all of the work - was backwards, and that was what I wanted to point >> out. > I'm afraid this is the part that's backwards. You are wrong. >> So, please, don't take it as an insult. In fact you have done a very good >> job of patiently spelling out the advantages of systemd, to the point I'm no >> longer afraid of it taking over and devouring the linux world. > If systemd truly is, as you say "taking over and devouring the linux world" *I* never said that. Others have though, and some still apparently believe this to be the case. Admittedly it is those voices that prompted me to start this thread. I wanted to get opinions from other list members about how systemd is/will/should impact the gentoo community, and I'm glad I did. The result is that I now no longer believe most of the negatives being spread about systemd, and no longer fear that it is 'taking over and devouring the linux world'. > such that the majority of distro maintainers are individually > choosing to use a feature or two from it, then yes, it definitely is > the job of people who want to opt out of it to do the work. You would be right IF - and I repeat IF - it weren't for the little inconvenient fact that OpenRC, not systemd, is the default init system in gentoo, now, and thankfully for the foreseeable future. I say thankfully not because I fear systemd, but because I would much prefer to let systemd mature with others using it to flesh out any bugs or other problems/issues (technical *and* political). As long as OpenRC is the default init system in Gentoo, it is on those who want something *other* than OpenRC (ie, systemd) to do the work of implementing it. Why is it so difficult to see that? Even Canek already acknowledged the correctness of this position. >> Bottom line: since Gentoo's default and primary init system is (and >> hopefully will be for a very long time) OpenRC, it is on the systemd folks >> to do the work to get systemd fully supported. > systemd IS supported and working. The problem arises when there are > people that want to push for a "system with no systemd whatsoever" > and act like it's the systemd maintainer's job to make that happen. Thankfully there is no problem then, since no one is pushing for 'a system with no systemd whatsoever', beyond what exists already. All I am interested in is keeping the systemd proponents in their place. As the 'new kid on the block', when 'invading' (for lack of a better term) a new distro (in this case, gentoo), it is *on them* to provide the methods and means for people interested in trying/using systemd on said distro, but most importantly to do so *without* impacting existing users who want to continue using the *existing*, *default* init system for their distro. Are you seriously disagreeing with this position?