From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09653138E20 for ; Thu, 20 Feb 2014 09:17:04 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 8B888E0AD8; Thu, 20 Feb 2014 09:16:57 +0000 (UTC) Received: from forward14.mail.yandex.net (forward14.mail.yandex.net [95.108.130.92]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 30889E0A9C for ; Thu, 20 Feb 2014 09:16:56 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp13.mail.yandex.net (smtp13.mail.yandex.net [95.108.130.68]) by forward14.mail.yandex.net (Yandex) with ESMTP id AB6791981893 for ; Thu, 20 Feb 2014 13:16:24 +0400 (MSK) Received: from smtp13.mail.yandex.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp13.mail.yandex.net (Yandex) with ESMTP id 88468E40092 for ; Thu, 20 Feb 2014 13:16:24 +0400 (MSK) Received: from unknown (unknown [91.233.55.8]) by smtp13.mail.yandex.net (nwsmtp/Yandex) with ESMTPSA id yc0WbgWeH9-GOcO9D2M; Thu, 20 Feb 2014 13:16:24 +0400 (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client certificate not present) X-Yandex-Uniq: be44fc95-d3a9-4121-b943-86c63601b5a7 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yandex.ru; s=mail; t=1392887784; bh=bM6XRM3nS7L3B5E+lGvwCnLFiHrAjri6IUllJq+9frc=; h=Message-ID:Date:From:User-Agent:MIME-Version:To:Subject: References:In-Reply-To:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=YHv1Zb/Wmqc2D6I9u+JW/uIMwFUwdt3xFoeexI1v9PsLJq12Hpv56eu60TntUANBO jgyKadNGjgx8W/nlh3ZPuv6A90ZyEEBGUMn6WfJKkh9z1iPRuwb0VRZvv+KoWti1b5 pLHur68aLbQx9OhgFxb/181DQE40f2i8XWSR0Deo= Authentication-Results: smtp13.mail.yandex.net; dkim=pass header.i=@yandex.ru Message-ID: <5305C7E3.9030906@yandex.ru> Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2014 13:16:19 +0400 From: "Yuri K. Shatroff" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.3.0 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Debian just voted in systemd for default init system in jessie References: <52FF84CE.2050301@libertytrek.org> <52FF9D58.3000608@libertytrek.org> <201402152023.10543.michaelkintzios@gmail.com> <5300DD51.5060207@libertytrek.org> <53010A8E.2050909@googlemail.com> <53012691.6040503@googlemail.com> <5ea6afc66880871ddec1398bab1e1f17.squirrel@www.antarean.org> <31f183759cbab018caa5523ab4974175.squirrel@www.antarean.org> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Archives-Salt: 567dd9cf-3eea-451b-8944-8d287ee60c93 X-Archives-Hash: e19120d0cfdbe5557d1429fbed8ea304 20.02.2014 09:24, Canek Peláez Valdés пишет: > [ snip ] >> but I do not see the point, beyond as a nice gimmick. > > Well, I *do* see a point. Many points, actually. You want the logs for > SSH, from February 12 to February 15? Done: > > journalctl --since=2014-02-12 --until=2014-02-15 -u sshd.service > > No grep. No cat. No hunting logrotated logs (the journal will rotate > automatically its logs, and will search on all logs available). You > can have second-precision intervals. > > Also, the binary format that the journal uses is indexed (hence the > binary part); therefore, the search is O(log n), no O(n). With a log > with a million entries, that's about 20 steps. > > Perhaps it's just a gimmick to you. For me is a really usefull Clearly, it's reinventing a wheel. All that indexing stuff and O(log(n)) if really needed is easily achieved with databases. Not using cat and grep is not something one'd boast; rather, again, a waste of resources to recreate already existing tools. BTW, I wonder if anyone does really have logs with millions of lines in one single file, not split into files by date, service etc, so that the whole O(n) issue is moot. Well, maybe it'd be nice to have a collection of log management tools all-in-one but beyond that I don't see any advantages of systemd-journald. > Its raison d'être is the new features it brings. I didn't notice any new features. It's not features that are new, but just a new implementation of old features in a more obtrusive way IMO. >> Additionally, the use of "tail -f" and "grep" allows me to check the logs >> real-time for debugging purposes. > > journalctl -f > > Checks the logs in real time. Again, [1]. Again, a brand new Wheel(c) > systemctl status apache2.service > > (see [2]) will print the status of the Apache web server, and also the > last lines from the logs. You can control how many lines. You can > check also with the journal, as I showed up. I believe it would be a 5-minutes job to add the capability of printing last N log entries for a service to `rc-service status`. Using cat, grep and the like. Not reinventing wheels. Not spending super-talented super-highly paid developers' time on doing tasks one had done about 30 years ago. I believe, not having this option is due to its simple uselessness. This way I really wonder if at some point the super talented systemd programmers decide that all shell tools are obsolete and every program should know how to index or filter or tail its output in its own, though, open, binary format. I can't get rid of the idea that systemd uses the MS Windows approach whatever you say about its open source. -- Regards, Yuri K. Shatroff