From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D469138E20 for ; Wed, 19 Feb 2014 10:54:15 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 01AEFE0D66; Wed, 19 Feb 2014 10:54:12 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mahal.bihira.com (mahal.bihira.com [50.7.77.170]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DA2BBE0D44 for ; Wed, 19 Feb 2014 10:54:10 +0000 (UTC) Received: from 145.70-40-238.netnet.net ([70.40.238.145]:53179 helo=[192.168.1.144]) by mahal.bihira.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1WG4n2-004NLw-P4 for gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org; Wed, 19 Feb 2014 10:54:09 +0000 Message-ID: <53048D50.8000101@sporkbox.us> Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2014 04:54:08 -0600 From: Daniel Campbell User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.3.0 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Debian just voted in systemd for default init system in jessie References: <52FF84CE.2050301@libertytrek.org> <5300DD51.5060207@libertytrek.org> <53010A8E.2050909@googlemail.com> <53012691.6040503@googlemail.com> <20140217215255.5766cb026df2f0b8002f8702@gmail.com> <5302c048.462f0e0a.3d3e.5888@mx.google.com> <20140218210633.d25f4bb88b3891f7c0ed11c6@gmail.com> <20140218220712.9ec8d2529ef49d743b3bc826@gmail.com> <5304576E.4000704@sporkbox.us> <20140219090226.1609dedd@digimed.co.uk> <530488BB.4060206@sporkbox.us> <20140219105005.64e30126@digimed.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <20140219105005.64e30126@digimed.co.uk> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - mahal.bihira.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - lists.gentoo.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - sporkbox.us X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: mahal.bihira.com: authenticated_id: lists@sporkbox.us X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Archives-Salt: e2c88ac2-e8c0-4c7c-a830-aea217fd31d1 X-Archives-Hash: f17a48c1643f18d611b93ea43c7776e0 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 02/19/2014 04:50 AM, Neil Bothwick wrote: > On Wed, 19 Feb 2014 04:34:35 -0600, Daniel Campbell wrote: > >>> How is putting systemd setting in a profile that a user has to >>> consciously choose to use forcing anything on anyone? Profiles >>> are the essence of choice but it appears you only want the >>> choices you approve of to be available. > >> Perhaps I didn't phrase it correctly. Logically, a "non systemd" >> profile would necessitate either a systemd profile, or require >> the default to already ship systemd. I hadn't considered the >> prior existence of systemd profiles, which we currently have, so >> afaict the issue is mostly moot. > > We already have non-systemd profiles. Until recently that is all we > had. > >> Choices are great until the existence of other choices infringes >> on mine. Profiles prevent that, so I have no problem with >> systemd profiles. The problem lies with evangelists who aren't >> happy with systemd being *a* choice. They want systemd to be >> *the* choice, *the* default. That is what I take issue with. > > Why are you so concerned about the default, not that anyone in > this thread has suggested making systemd the default, not even > Canek? If you cannot use eselect profile set, Gentoo is not for you > anyway? The handbook tells you to select a profile quite early in > the installation, there is no default - portage complain loudly if > you haven't chosen a profile, so I fail to see how anyone can force > systemd (or openrc for that matter) on users when the choice must > be made. > > There are technical arguments for and against systemd, which is why > this thread was started, rhetoric about forcing default profiles on > people when there is no such thing as a default profile only serve > to cloud the real issues. > > Ah. It's been a while since I installed Gentoo; I wasn't aware that portage would yell at you for not choosing a profile, or that one wasn't already set. In that case there's nothing for me to say wrt defaults. Insistence upon technical-only discussion is a bit dishonest imo, as free software is more than code. Without the social practices, community, etc, there wouldn't be free software. So I think non-technical concerns can be relevant to discussions on a project, especially ambitious ones that seek to greatly change the ecosystem. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJTBI1QAAoJEJUrb08JgYgHLbwIAI9sg65uA330dpWdoZHua81q CGnoHzmClRdToNeYI40UKt7uT4rlebVvV2/A4DCcOb/qOPy7V1yNX8Etdsk/PHGi 5fhmqIgG/pU7lLeBI1FVMJmGaPZOju/g23Ney1AknoAdSH6r3F1S4k7d95C3CgWs VDlZpsB/q5e8bTIVfFSQZ4vj9I4cKz+ZNzDsD2oGepDGtH+66OPjF1MUBhBao/+c rFrZcdaWOpTc0Soj6I+bdffijKldyOflzRkINo6mBaWWOlEh34A10rGDDcOnkT6L 0ioUBn+5C9/AIDbBX8uplaaT4nG0QWPg/gi/WH6swLme5X9kSUVeTYJMCqRFBkk= =mK4M -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----