From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1338138BF3 for ; Tue, 18 Feb 2014 19:10:35 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 90C87E0C95; Tue, 18 Feb 2014 19:10:27 +0000 (UTC) Received: from homiemail-a51.g.dreamhost.com (caibbdcaaagc.dreamhost.com [208.113.200.62]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76D25E0C6B for ; Tue, 18 Feb 2014 19:10:21 +0000 (UTC) Received: from homiemail-a51.g.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by homiemail-a51.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0C49FC003 for ; Tue, 18 Feb 2014 11:10:20 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=libertytrek.org; h= message-id:date:from:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s= libertytrek.org; bh=UF+bkTY+3FCNm3xCJjpy1u/ml8g=; b=z+p/dRAbKuOI gNydRmVwkB2ff1v6KRIBi0O1u/u3qZibySIgjBDI7raasGgo9gsZbpYNvJW2aUFc xHpb3vg+hqLvpAzS539Y9PLid76/wNUw++VM5we5jjqg0nxeLm9XNJH11klYKRSi AvAeyt9sNnx6orWQDo3aib+zV2ka6XU= Received: from [127.0.0.1] (unknown [159.63.145.2]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: tanstaafl@libertytrek.org) by homiemail-a51.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 374E4FC001 for ; Tue, 18 Feb 2014 11:10:19 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <5303AFF6.5090505@libertytrek.org> Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2014 14:09:42 -0500 From: Tanstaafl User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.2.0 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Debian just voted in systemd for default init system in jessie References: <52FF84CE.2050301@libertytrek.org> <5300DD51.5060207@libertytrek.org> <53010A8E.2050909@googlemail.com> <53012691.6040503@googlemail.com> <20140217215255.5766cb026df2f0b8002f8702@gmail.com> <5302c048.462f0e0a.3d3e.5888@mx.google.com> <20140218210633.d25f4bb88b3891f7c0ed11c6@gmail.com> <20140218220712.9ec8d2529ef49d743b3bc826@gmail.com> <5303A715.2090103@libertytrek.org> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Archives-Salt: a60ecddb-d207-4788-920b-7acd7722181c X-Archives-Hash: 209f405e7a959003e49f68f6f77a4e01 On 2014-02-18 1:54 PM, Canek Pel=C3=A1ez Vald=C3=A9s w= rote:> On=20 Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 12:31 PM, Tanstaafl wrot= e: >> I'm curious as to the extent of these programs, and to what extent >> they *truly* require systemd. > I don't understand what you mean by "the extent of these programs". Sorry, worded that badly... I meant, basically, how many programs now=20 require systemd... >> I can't for the life of me think of any reason that server daemons >> like postfix, dovecot, apache, etc would or could ever *require* >> systemd. > Neither of those packages would ever require systemd (nor any init > system). If they do, I would call that a bug. Then why should XFCE requiring it also not be a bug? I totally get XFCE *supporting* the use of logind, but why should it=20 ever support *only* logind? That would seem insane to me. > All of those programs can use features provided by systemd (like > socket activation, OpenRC will supposedly soon support the use of sockets... > using the more advances features of the journal, etc.), but they can > be made optional. Exactly... it is the question of *requiring* it, or *only* supporting=20 it, that doesn't make sense to me. >> Also, for those that do require it, what feature of systemd (that >> doesn't have an alternative available) is it that the program >> uses? > Again, basically logind. And there *is* ConsoleKit available as an > alternative. Ok, so the numerous times you and others have made comments about the=20 'many new features' of systemd, you only really meant logind? > But basically all the GNOME developers are using systemd, so the CK > support is getting bitrotten. That's why the Gentoo GNOME team decided > to depend on systemd, although the requirement is really logind. > > If *someone* creates a logind compatible replacement (it uses a simple > dbus API[1]), then even the GNOME suit in Gentoo could drop the > requirement for systemd. Ubuntu has been working on something like > this, and Mark Shuttleworth said that they will continue to work on > it, even with Ubuntu choosing systemd[2], so if/when that's available, > there will be no program that *requires* systemd, AFAIK. > > (Well, gnome-logs depends on the journal, but it's a GUI for a systemd > specific feature). > > Like I've been saying; no one is forcing nothing on no one. But > someone has to write/support/maintain the alternative. Excellent... so apparently, the only real new features that have any=20 kind of dependency are logind and maybe journald, so all that would be=20 needed are compatible replacements, and all of the noise about systemd=20 consuming the world has been just that... noise?