From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49526138BF3 for ; Tue, 18 Feb 2014 18:53:24 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 7EB3BE0AD4; Tue, 18 Feb 2014 18:53:17 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp30.i.mail.ru (smtp30.i.mail.ru [94.100.177.90]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2A83DE0AAA for ; Tue, 18 Feb 2014 18:53:16 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mail.ru; s=mail2; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:To:MIME-Version:From:Date:Message-ID; bh=/oaFED0xENgg/b1w7i7A3mibk2pxJx8vqSAVPjtT4ys=; b=sQoQrfWhR3jRkkEOcNR1Fmv91lgwZFMU9O8AMpamZ0PVXPJPdcYniX3KVESamazy52qVjtOtGwhtnlVW8m8qcdomFgmcyNjso6oF7f8FXQhVJN+Oq3nL6p2P+vCE/ra8THZO1yXnKUUiPrO7jRDBDtu9OkeWCmnRqs8Av1mZ8So=; Received: from [95.221.16.41] (port=60779) by smtp30.i.mail.ru with esmtpa (envelope-from ) id 1WFpn7-0000ZN-UH for gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org; Tue, 18 Feb 2014 22:53:14 +0400 Message-ID: <5303AC18.5050802@mail.ru> Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2014 22:53:12 +0400 From: the User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.1.1 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Debian just voted in systemd for default init system in jessie References: <52FF84CE.2050301@libertytrek.org> <52FF9D58.3000608@libertytrek.org> <201402152023.10543.michaelkintzios@gmail.com> <5300DD51.5060207@libertytrek.org> <53010A8E.2050909@googlemail.com> <53012691.6040503@googlemail.com> <20140217215255.5766cb026df2f0b8002f8702@gmail.com> <5302c048.462f0e0a.3d3e.5888@mx.google.com> <5303671f.2859700a.06cd.0232@mx.google.com> In-Reply-To: <5303671f.2859700a.06cd.0232@mx.google.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.6 OpenPGP: url=http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0xAEB820BD6E23685A Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam: Not detected X-Mras: Ok X-Archives-Salt: dc7011f3-d884-4b1e-8fc3-25db17a6cb3f X-Archives-Hash: 8b536f064152ca52c05d818414b87ff9 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 02/18/14 17:56, Gevisz wrote: > On Mon, 17 Feb 2014 23:30:42 -0600 Canek Peláez Valdés > wrote: > >> On Mon, Feb 17, 2014 at 8:05 PM, Gevisz >> wrote: [ snip ] >>> How can you be sure if something is "large enough" if, as you >>> say below, you do not care about probabilities? >> >> By writing correct code? > > No, by arguing that fixing bugs in a 200K line program is as easy > as fixing a bug in 20 10K line programs. It is just not true, just > the opposite. > >>>>> SysVinit code size is about 10 000 lines of code, OpenRC >>>>> contains about 13 000 lines, systemd — about 200 000 >>>>> lines. >>>> >>>> If you take into account the thousands of shell code that >>>> SysV and OpenRC need to fill the functionality of systemd, >>>> they use even more. >>>> >>>> Also, again, systemd have a lot of little binaries, many of >>>> them optional. The LOC of PID 1 is actually closer to SysV >>>> (although still bigger). >>>> >>>>> Even assuming systemd code is as mature as sysvinit or >>>>> openrc (though I doubt this) you can calculate >>>>> probabilities of segfaults yourself easily. >>>> >>>> I don't care about probabilities; >>> >>> If you do not care (= do not now anything) about probabilities >>> (and mathematics, in general), you just unable to understand >>> that debugging a program with 200K lines of code take >>> >>> 200000!/(10000!)^20 >>> >>> more time than debugging of 20 different programs with 10K >>> lines of code. You can try to calculate that number yourself >>> but I quite sure that if the latter can take, say, 20 days, the >>> former can take millions of years. >>> >>> It is all the probability! Or, to be more precise, >>> combinatorics. >> >> My PhD thesis (which I will defend in a few weeks) is in >> computer science, specifically computational geometry and >> combinatorics. > > It is even more shameful for you to not understand such a simple > facts from elementary probability theory (which is mostly based on > combinatorics). TBH I don't understand your estimate. Where did permutations come from? are you comparing all the different combinations of lines of code? -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJTA6wWAAoJEK64IL1uI2ha5nIH/iUl2VNVAabzJzRJzC29zmWg t7KwGcfrtx2D40N7n4yM4LB7VBmnyoQ6+Iroh/uk3S33S/YK/5igN8UfuhvV+lvU 85X3T3RE3oK3kURLq68bb4Ri2zLFQ8y1rQdrrUr9ABzy+F4Xfo+W4t+lLsHSQ+dY f4F7ByfJAHwh9OziFKh2/qwLj4z0Trv8AzZZhP8M29kTNWEWGyo5rGg8vRqm8Klm kHR3RvvTdV4AgYGHqxdtrO7qpB50VXZA8ihzl7lbmsBJj3pWBo1osFNWNP82yy7r s4hev5QrCpgOlEebtYi/noX8Vxx335SUirGCgjN/W9xhIwt3jfMqRes6zD+bi7A= =F5to -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----