From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A5BC138BF3 for ; Mon, 17 Feb 2014 05:24:21 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 2EE62E0AEF; Mon, 17 Feb 2014 05:24:10 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp.gentoo.org (smtp.gentoo.org [140.211.166.183]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9FDB4E0ADC for ; Mon, 17 Feb 2014 05:24:08 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [10.184.212.82] (85-76-181-69-nat.elisa-mobile.fi [85.76.181.69]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: ssuominen) by smtp.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4E49D33F5D7 for ; Mon, 17 Feb 2014 05:24:07 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <53019C89.8020607@gentoo.org> Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2014 07:22:17 +0200 From: Samuli Suominen User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.3.0 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Debian just voted in systemd for default init system in jessie References: <52FF84CE.2050301@libertytrek.org> <52FF9D58.3000608@libertytrek.org> <201402152023.10543.michaelkintzios@gmail.com> <5300DD51.5060207@libertytrek.org> <5300EA3A.5020801@gmail.com> <5300FF41.7050004@gentoo.org> <53012D9A.9090109@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <53012D9A.9090109@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Archives-Salt: 8de056c1-a0aa-4ea7-b3ac-87c3c141f914 X-Archives-Hash: 650549091e10c08b50868c8b4939f8d6 On 16/02/14 23:28, Alan McKinnon wrote: > On 16/02/2014 20:11, Samuli Suominen wrote: >> On 16/02/14 18:41, Alan McKinnon wrote: >>> On 16/02/2014 17:46, Tanstaafl wrote: >>>> On 2014-02-15 3:32 PM, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote: >>>>> For Slackware, I have no idea. For Debian, no the only options were[1]: >>>>> >>>>> 1. sysvinit (status quo) >>>>> 2. systemd >>>>> 3. upstart >>>>> 4. openrc (experimental) >>>>> 5. One system on Linux, something else on non-linux >>>>> 6. multiple >>>>> >>>>> It should also be noted that no one in the TC voted OpenRC above >>>>> systemd AND upstart, and that while a couple voted systemd below >>>>> everything else, it can be argued that it was a tactical vote. >>>>> >>>>> Regards. >>>>> >>>>> [1]https://wiki.debian.org/Debate/initsystem/ >>>> I would really, really, REALLY like to see a thorough, civil debate >>>> involving those far more knowledgeable than I on the pros and cons of >>>> systemd vs OpenRC... >>>> >>>> As it seems to me, the Debian OpenRC page says that the cons are not >>>> nearly as large as the systemd proponents would have us believe. >>>> >>>> https://wiki.debian.org/Debate/initsystem/openrc >>> I don't know much about systemd, I do know openrc. >>> >>> Thus far, the only real actual benefit I have seen of systemd that is a >>> real issue that really affects me is consolekit. It's not exactly the >>> best piece of software out there, comparable to HAL and how it was >>> replaced by udev. So systemd replaces and fixes consolekit by providing >>> logind. >> ConsoleKit works just fine for the features it advertises to have, where >> as HAL never did, >> so I really don't know what you are referring to? > > It's a poor design. It's also unmaintained currently. How long has it been since Debian decided to go with systemd? Like, three? So, up until three days ago I would have disagreed since despite original upstream ditching ConsoleKit, it was still being maintained by Debian and Gentoo maintainers (me) and last release, 0.4.6, was in fact a result of that. But still, the fact that there is no more active development, doesn't mean it's obsolete. It still works fine as it ever did and there has been no need to cut any of it's features for any reason. Since logind works only on systemd, ConsoleKit is nothing less than what dhcp-client is to dhcpcd. So, it's definately not 'deprecated', or 'obsolete'. I call it 'mature'. Many BSDs still use it, and with Xfce upstream including a OpenBSD developer, and Xfce's commitment to keeping it working with BSDs in otherway too, I'm not worried about it becoming one of these nasty words of 'unmaintained', 'deprecated', 'obsolete' and co. even if I didn't do the legwork myself. So no, we don't get to blame ConsoleKit for any of this what has been happening. Take my word for it, it's not going to go anywhere from Portage anyday soon. But OK, it's a bit off-topic to this thread, I'm just getting ugly itch when people are so eager to call it anything else than mature despite it still working fine. - Samuli