From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6950E138BF3 for ; Sun, 16 Feb 2014 19:56:07 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 6F310E0BEE; Sun, 16 Feb 2014 19:56:03 +0000 (UTC) Received: from forward4l.mail.yandex.net (forward4l.mail.yandex.net [84.201.143.137]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4DE60E0BE3 for ; Sun, 16 Feb 2014 19:56:02 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp1h.mail.yandex.net (smtp1h.mail.yandex.net [84.201.187.144]) by forward4l.mail.yandex.net (Yandex) with ESMTP id 115461440C98 for ; Sun, 16 Feb 2014 23:55:59 +0400 (MSK) Received: from smtp1h.mail.yandex.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp1h.mail.yandex.net (Yandex) with ESMTP id C6FBF13400E9 for ; Sun, 16 Feb 2014 23:55:59 +0400 (MSK) Received: from 31.207.74.47.pppoe-dynamic.pushkinnet.ru (31.207.74.47.pppoe-dynamic.pushkinnet.ru [31.207.74.47]) by smtp1h.mail.yandex.net (nwsmtp/Yandex) with ESMTPSA id WnhKKwCbTx-txQOWhrc; Sun, 16 Feb 2014 23:55:59 +0400 (using TLSv1 with cipher CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client certificate not present) X-Yandex-Uniq: b393cf68-982a-45a3-b3c9-517db0d18e93 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yandex.ru; s=mail; t=1392580559; bh=aU2T/kY0r1jrD5bWYmZvPjqbnIjOR0F+vrz0+sT0eoM=; h=Message-ID:Date:From:User-Agent:MIME-Version:To:Subject: References:In-Reply-To:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=n+Ru3DP88Mn3h9mdxnC0xgemc0Y34tmfE9wUTY/7ia2kCOI0b3HW9I4slEADjUPAa dLjKzw7o9wZ57TtBGbRDxAadsEi/q5xvUeKWX0Fl2OKzhMoGNhCTplxBY4K+P6Qfub 79+acr+l4woZy/B9tm0eOiN7Y7DaI+kEXGsUAK8s= Authentication-Results: smtp1h.mail.yandex.net; dkim=pass header.i=@yandex.ru Message-ID: <530117CE.2030307@yandex.ru> Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2014 23:55:58 +0400 From: "Yuri K. Shatroff" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.2.0 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Debian just voted in systemd for default init system in jessie References: <52FF84CE.2050301@libertytrek.org> <53010ADB.2070708@yandex.ru> <201402161926.17796.michaelkintzios@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <201402161926.17796.michaelkintzios@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archives-Salt: 4a4fb1a1-d203-48e5-9ea1-8672670370ac X-Archives-Hash: c7257e73c31649755e4621e9cbf67349 On 16.02.2014 23:26, Mick wrote: > On Sunday 16 Feb 2014 19:00:43 Yuri K. Shatroff wrote: >> [ ... ] >> But why then is Linux drifting to systemd? The answer is simple: money. >> Time is money. You have to support two init systems -> twice the time, >> twice the money. Sooner or later, a sum of money will outweigh the >> users' opinion. To be a realist, one has to admit that in near future >> 90% of new distro versions will be systemd-based. Unless some green soxx >> emerge and take over Red Hat... > > > You may have lost it in the link that Volker posted (thanks Volker), but this > comment from HaakonKL probably sums it up: Sorry, by the time Volker posted his message, I was already writing mine. > "... I will give Upstart this though: Should something better come along, you > could replace upstart. I guess this holds true for OpenRC as well. > > You can't say that about systemd." > > Can you surgically remove systemd in the future without reverse engineering > half of what the LSB would look at the time, or will its developers ensure > that this is a one time choice only? Do you disagree with my statement that "in near future 90% of new distro versions will be systemd-based"? Or with some other statement of mine? If the former, then I intentionally put it down to money with no regard to technical performance because money is usually what ultimately matters for maintainers. From a Software User's POV, as I said, I agree that systemd is a load of bul^W things whose significance is at the least overrated. From a technical POV, I bet, most systemd's cookies could be implemented within any other init system as well, if required. But in the Real World, software users either develop theirs own if they have the resources, or get what they are given by those who have. So my whole message was about -- whether OpenRC/upstart/anything guys have resources to "show'em" or eventually fall to systemd. -- Best wishes, Yuri K. Shatroff