From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40A76138BF3 for ; Sun, 16 Feb 2014 19:00:57 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 2A83EE0BD5; Sun, 16 Feb 2014 19:00:48 +0000 (UTC) Received: from forward8l.mail.yandex.net (forward8l.mail.yandex.net [84.201.143.141]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E1A43E0B82 for ; Sun, 16 Feb 2014 19:00:46 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp4h.mail.yandex.net (smtp4h.mail.yandex.net [84.201.186.21]) by forward8l.mail.yandex.net (Yandex) with ESMTP id 9E5FD1A40D09 for ; Sun, 16 Feb 2014 23:00:44 +0400 (MSK) Received: from smtp4h.mail.yandex.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp4h.mail.yandex.net (Yandex) with ESMTP id 5EBCE2C2817 for ; Sun, 16 Feb 2014 23:00:44 +0400 (MSK) Received: from 31.207.74.47.pppoe-dynamic.pushkinnet.ru (31.207.74.47.pppoe-dynamic.pushkinnet.ru [31.207.74.47]) by smtp4h.mail.yandex.net (nwsmtp/Yandex) with ESMTPSA id g5981ixsnk-0iPu0SF7; Sun, 16 Feb 2014 23:00:44 +0400 (using TLSv1 with cipher CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client certificate not present) X-Yandex-Uniq: 0666dcb0-acf3-4eba-b848-81daa6e5238c DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yandex.ru; s=mail; t=1392577244; bh=EQ+YjStIClwR5gtMV8pf6WR201BR0VtWaiiFhC16we8=; h=Message-ID:Date:From:User-Agent:MIME-Version:To:Subject: References:In-Reply-To:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=UPeJY7G/yndBTMUoYKSxV8lOakFbnUEVEAEenJm1OjxPwCSybvy2XyhSjswxWI5i2 OxFFcsEgAoYUEzTSnYcUtGGFC3C6tTfnGnoD6kf7F6/cjrpAeXA9cST+tAc6wFxVu/ Xg73p8v8w/iksEf0ukZIGE5FmcxTlIpnNusF4MPk= Authentication-Results: smtp4h.mail.yandex.net; dkim=pass header.i=@yandex.ru Message-ID: <53010ADB.2070708@yandex.ru> Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2014 23:00:43 +0400 From: "Yuri K. Shatroff" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.2.0 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Debian just voted in systemd for default init system in jessie References: <52FF84CE.2050301@libertytrek.org> <52FF9D58.3000608@libertytrek.org> <201402152023.10543.michaelkintzios@gmail.com> <5300DD51.5060207@libertytrek.org> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Archives-Salt: bc8b07e0-7bd6-4915-9f5a-f90331418749 X-Archives-Hash: bbb3093bf79b03ba222ff77e75bf9eea On 16.02.2014 20:50, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote: [ ... ] > It's because they are cons only if you agree with systemd's view of the world. > > I do. Isn't there too many "if you believe" and "if you agree"? A church of systemd? ;) I wonder why all systemd's fancy stuff hasn't yet been integrated into any existing init system, because of theoretical impossibility or just practical uselessness? Actually why not do the daemon management, logging, cron etc in the Linux kernel itself? It's obvious, and we even have a perfect example of kernel-integrated graphics around -- `guess the OS name`. It also has much in common with systemd; "Believe us it's the best OS", "Believe us it provides loads of features", "Agree with having binary logs" etc. A competent approach for choosing software for a task is answering the questions: 1. Is the software standards-compliant? 2. Does the software have an alternative compatible implementation? 3. Is the software developed to achieve a certain, concrete goal? 4. Does the software achieve the goal? 5. Does the software achieve the goal "gracefully"? 6. Does the software have a clear perspective and view what it will be like? 7. Is the software developed and maintained by a reliable company or group? AFAICT, with systemd there's by far one "yes". The other answers are dubious if just plain "no". I'd personally share Alan McKinnon's POV: there's no real reason to switch to systemd since the present init systems serve pretty well and the benefit, if any, isn't worth the adaptation threshold. But why then is Linux drifting to systemd? The answer is simple: money. Time is money. You have to support two init systems -> twice the time, twice the money. Sooner or later, a sum of money will outweigh the users' opinion. To be a realist, one has to admit that in near future 90% of new distro versions will be systemd-based. Unless some green soxx emerge and take over Red Hat... -- Best wishes, Yuri K. Shatroff