From: "Yuri K. Shatroff" <yks-uno@yandex.ru>
To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Debian just voted in systemd for default init system in jessie
Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2014 23:00:43 +0400 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <53010ADB.2070708@yandex.ru> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CADPrc82Yh1d-RRJ_HgQE5QbTQUUZg9GySAC9EFFpMWOcndY=Kg@mail.gmail.com>
On 16.02.2014 20:50, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
[ ... ]
> It's because they are cons only if you agree with systemd's view of the world.
>
> I do.
Isn't there too many "if you believe" and "if you agree"? A church of
systemd? ;)
I wonder why all systemd's fancy stuff hasn't yet been integrated into
any existing init system, because of theoretical impossibility or just
practical uselessness?
Actually why not do the daemon management, logging, cron etc in the
Linux kernel itself? It's obvious, and we even have a perfect example of
kernel-integrated graphics around -- `guess the OS name`. It also has
much in common with systemd; "Believe us it's the best OS", "Believe us
it provides loads of features", "Agree with having binary logs" etc.
A competent approach for choosing software for a task is answering the
questions:
1. Is the software standards-compliant?
2. Does the software have an alternative compatible implementation?
3. Is the software developed to achieve a certain, concrete goal?
4. Does the software achieve the goal?
5. Does the software achieve the goal "gracefully"?
6. Does the software have a clear perspective and view what it will be like?
7. Is the software developed and maintained by a reliable company or group?
AFAICT, with systemd there's by far one "yes". The other answers are
dubious if just plain "no".
I'd personally share Alan McKinnon's POV: there's no real reason to
switch to systemd since the present init systems serve pretty well and
the benefit, if any, isn't worth the adaptation threshold.
But why then is Linux drifting to systemd? The answer is simple: money.
Time is money. You have to support two init systems -> twice the time,
twice the money. Sooner or later, a sum of money will outweigh the
users' opinion. To be a realist, one has to admit that in near future
90% of new distro versions will be systemd-based. Unless some green soxx
emerge and take over Red Hat...
--
Best wishes,
Yuri K. Shatroff
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2014-02-16 19:00 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 314+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2014-02-15 15:16 [gentoo-user] Debian just voted in systemd for default init system in jessie Tanstaafl
2014-02-15 17:01 ` Tanstaafl
2014-02-15 17:32 ` Canek Peláez Valdés
2014-02-15 20:23 ` Mick
2014-02-15 20:32 ` Canek Peláez Valdés
2014-02-15 20:34 ` Daniel Campbell
2014-02-15 20:46 ` [gentoo-user] " eroen
2014-02-15 20:47 ` [gentoo-user] " Canek Peláez Valdés
2014-02-16 15:46 ` Tanstaafl
2014-02-16 16:41 ` Alan McKinnon
2014-02-16 18:11 ` Samuli Suominen
2014-02-16 21:28 ` Alan McKinnon
2014-02-17 5:22 ` Samuli Suominen
2014-02-17 16:52 ` [gentoo-user] " »Q«
2014-02-17 15:29 ` [gentoo-user] " Stroller
2014-02-17 19:53 ` Alan McKinnon
2014-02-18 3:46 ` Mark David Dumlao
2014-02-18 9:47 ` Alan McKinnon
2014-02-18 9:52 ` J. Roeleveld
2014-02-18 11:17 ` Alan McKinnon
2014-02-18 12:16 ` J. Roeleveld
2014-02-18 23:06 ` Alan McKinnon
2014-02-19 7:07 ` J. Roeleveld
2014-02-18 11:54 ` Mark David Dumlao
2014-02-18 12:07 ` J. Roeleveld
2014-02-18 22:43 ` Alan McKinnon
2014-02-18 15:08 ` Andrew Savchenko
2014-02-16 16:50 ` Canek Peláez Valdés
2014-02-16 18:31 ` Mick
2014-02-16 19:56 ` Canek Peláez Valdés
2014-02-16 18:59 ` Volker Armin Hemmann
2014-02-16 20:08 ` Canek Peláez Valdés
2014-02-16 20:58 ` Volker Armin Hemmann
2014-02-16 21:16 ` Canek Peláez Valdés
2014-02-17 17:52 ` Andrew Savchenko
2014-02-17 19:52 ` Tanstaafl
2014-02-17 20:17 ` Andrew Savchenko
2014-02-18 11:41 ` Tanstaafl
2014-02-18 0:35 ` Canek Peláez Valdés
2014-02-18 2:05 ` Gevisz
2014-02-18 5:30 ` Canek Peláez Valdés
2014-02-18 13:56 ` Gevisz
2014-02-18 18:53 ` the
2014-02-19 10:37 ` Gevisz
2014-02-21 8:41 ` the
2014-03-20 16:39 ` Tom Wijsman
2014-02-18 17:06 ` Andrew Savchenko
2014-02-18 17:22 ` Canek Peláez Valdés
2014-02-18 18:07 ` Andrew Savchenko
2014-02-18 18:14 ` Canek Peláez Valdés
2014-02-18 18:31 ` Tanstaafl
2014-02-18 18:54 ` Canek Peláez Valdés
2014-02-18 19:09 ` Tanstaafl
2014-02-18 19:34 ` Canek Peláez Valdés
2014-02-18 21:33 ` wabenbau
2014-03-20 16:55 ` Tom Wijsman
2014-02-19 7:04 ` Daniel Campbell
2014-02-19 7:55 ` Canek Peláez Valdés
2014-02-19 9:02 ` Neil Bothwick
2014-02-19 10:34 ` Daniel Campbell
2014-02-19 10:50 ` Neil Bothwick
2014-02-19 10:54 ` Daniel Campbell
2014-02-19 20:14 ` Neil Bothwick
2014-02-19 9:06 ` Gevisz
2014-02-19 10:19 ` thegeezer
2014-02-19 12:13 ` Andrew Savchenko
2014-03-20 18:42 ` Tom Wijsman
2014-03-22 13:00 ` thegeezer
2014-03-22 13:09 ` thegeezer
2014-03-22 14:43 ` Tom Wijsman
2014-02-19 12:38 ` Tanstaafl
2014-02-20 5:43 ` Canek Peláez Valdés
2014-02-20 12:53 ` Tanstaafl
2014-02-20 15:55 ` Canek Peláez Valdés
2014-02-20 18:18 ` Tanstaafl
2014-02-20 18:36 ` Canek Peláez Valdés
2014-02-20 20:06 ` Tanstaafl
2014-02-20 21:04 ` Canek Peláez Valdés
2014-02-20 21:22 ` Tanstaafl
2014-02-20 21:38 ` Canek Peláez Valdés
2014-02-20 23:37 ` Michael Higgins
2014-02-21 0:16 ` Michael Higgins
2014-02-21 1:46 ` Canek Peláez Valdés
2014-02-21 1:40 ` Canek Peláez Valdés
2014-02-21 21:37 ` Michael Higgins
2014-02-21 22:44 ` Canek Peláez Valdés
2014-02-21 14:32 ` Providing a path for systemd on gentoo - 'profiles', or 'eselect module'? - WAS " Tanstaafl
2014-02-21 21:58 ` Neil Bothwick
2014-02-22 16:37 ` Tanstaafl
2014-02-22 17:46 ` Alan McKinnon
2014-03-20 18:57 ` Tom Wijsman
2014-03-20 20:22 ` Alan McKinnon
2014-03-20 20:33 ` Tom Wijsman
2014-03-20 21:24 ` Alan McKinnon
2014-03-20 22:55 ` Neil Bothwick
2014-02-25 10:03 ` [gentoo-user] " Nicolas Sebrecht
2014-02-26 7:16 ` Canek Peláez Valdés
2014-02-26 8:07 ` Nicolas Sebrecht
2014-03-20 19:45 ` Tom Wijsman
2014-02-21 17:33 ` [gentoo-user] " thegeezer
2014-02-21 18:07 ` Tanstaafl
2014-02-21 20:33 ` J. Roeleveld
2014-02-22 13:21 ` thegeezer
2014-02-22 13:26 ` thegeezer
2014-03-20 19:53 ` Tom Wijsman
2014-02-21 3:36 ` Mark David Dumlao
2014-02-21 4:59 ` Dale
2014-02-21 5:53 ` Andrew Savchenko
2014-03-20 20:00 ` Tom Wijsman
2014-03-20 20:27 ` Andrew Savchenko
2014-03-20 21:15 ` Tom Wijsman
2014-03-20 21:48 ` [gentoo-user] " »Q«
2014-03-21 10:37 ` Tanstaafl
2014-03-21 11:06 ` Tom Wijsman
2014-03-25 20:08 ` »Q«
2014-03-25 22:25 ` Alan McKinnon
2014-03-25 23:34 ` »Q«
2014-03-26 0:28 ` Alan McKinnon
2014-03-20 21:23 ` [gentoo-user] " Tanstaafl
2014-03-21 11:08 ` Tom Wijsman
2014-02-21 14:02 ` Tanstaafl
2014-02-21 14:28 ` Mark David Dumlao
2014-02-21 14:50 ` Tanstaafl
2014-03-20 20:14 ` Tom Wijsman
2014-03-20 21:25 ` Tanstaafl
2014-03-21 11:13 ` Tom Wijsman
2014-03-21 12:10 ` Dale
2014-03-21 12:45 ` Tom Wijsman
2014-03-21 17:41 ` Dale
2014-03-21 18:32 ` Tom Wijsman
2014-03-22 0:29 ` Dale
2014-03-25 15:38 ` [gentoo-user] " Nicolas Sebrecht
2014-03-25 15:35 ` Nicolas Sebrecht
2014-03-25 17:15 ` J. Roeleveld
2014-03-26 8:49 ` Nicolas Sebrecht
2014-03-26 9:13 ` Mark David Dumlao
2014-03-21 12:27 ` [gentoo-user] " Neil Bothwick
2014-03-21 12:49 ` Tom Wijsman
2014-03-21 13:13 ` Poison BL.
2014-03-21 13:29 ` Tom Wijsman
2014-03-21 21:57 ` Walter Dnes
2014-03-21 22:34 ` Alan McKinnon
2014-03-21 23:46 ` Tom Wijsman
2014-03-22 10:34 ` Alan McKinnon
2014-03-22 10:57 ` Matti Nykyri
2014-03-22 11:08 ` Dale
2014-03-22 12:18 ` Tom Wijsman
2014-03-22 12:15 ` Tom Wijsman
2014-03-22 12:56 ` Neil Bothwick
2014-03-22 14:50 ` Tom Wijsman
2014-03-22 15:28 ` luis jure
2014-03-22 15:38 ` Tom Wijsman
2014-03-22 15:52 ` Tom Wijsman
2014-03-22 19:45 ` Neil Bothwick
2014-03-22 13:07 ` thegeezer
2014-03-22 12:05 ` Tom Wijsman
2014-03-21 23:40 ` Tom Wijsman
2014-03-22 13:35 ` Tanstaafl
2014-03-22 15:10 ` Tom Wijsman
2014-03-22 17:24 ` Dale
2014-03-21 17:49 ` Dale
2014-03-21 17:43 ` Tanstaafl
2014-03-21 18:23 ` Dale
2014-03-21 19:58 ` Alan McKinnon
2014-03-22 0:28 ` Dale
2014-03-22 9:24 ` Mick
2014-03-22 9:52 ` Dale
2014-02-21 15:20 ` Gevisz
2014-02-21 16:05 ` [gentoo-user] " »Q«
2014-02-21 21:07 ` [gentoo-user] " Canek Peláez Valdés
2014-02-18 19:32 ` Neil Bothwick
2014-02-18 19:54 ` Canek Peláez Valdés
2014-03-21 11:18 ` Tom Wijsman
2014-03-20 16:52 ` Tom Wijsman
2014-02-18 16:43 ` Andrew Savchenko
2014-02-18 17:11 ` Gevisz
2014-02-18 17:13 ` Canek Peláez Valdés
2014-03-20 16:36 ` Tom Wijsman
2014-02-18 16:36 ` Andrew Savchenko
2014-02-18 17:12 ` Canek Peláez Valdés
2014-02-19 9:00 ` J. Roeleveld
2014-02-20 5:34 ` Canek Peláez Valdés
2014-02-21 20:14 ` J. Roeleveld
2014-02-21 22:40 ` Canek Peláez Valdés
2014-02-22 7:40 ` Mark David Dumlao
2014-02-22 10:38 ` Yuri K. Shatroff
2014-02-22 17:21 ` Stroller
2014-02-22 19:36 ` Yuri K. Shatroff
2014-02-22 20:22 ` Canek Peláez Valdés
2014-02-22 21:39 ` Yuri K. Shatroff
2014-02-22 15:28 ` Andrew Savchenko
2014-02-22 17:50 ` Canek Peláez Valdés
2014-03-20 16:24 ` Tom Wijsman
2014-02-18 9:54 ` J. Roeleveld
2014-02-18 14:37 ` Canek Peláez Valdés
2014-02-19 8:50 ` J. Roeleveld
2014-02-19 19:54 ` Sebastian Beßler
2014-02-20 5:24 ` Canek Peláez Valdés
2014-02-20 9:16 ` Yuri K. Shatroff
2014-02-20 11:33 ` [gentoo-user] " Nicolas Sebrecht
2014-02-20 11:53 ` Yuri K. Shatroff
2014-02-20 15:24 ` Alan McKinnon
2014-02-21 7:03 ` Yuri K. Shatroff
2014-02-21 8:48 ` Alan McKinnon
2014-02-21 9:59 ` Yuri K. Shatroff
2014-02-20 15:16 ` [gentoo-user] " Alan McKinnon
2014-02-21 21:03 ` J. Roeleveld
2014-02-20 15:52 ` Canek Peláez Valdés
2014-02-21 20:30 ` J. Roeleveld
2014-03-21 11:27 ` Tom Wijsman
2014-03-21 11:24 ` Tom Wijsman
2014-03-21 11:50 ` J. Roeleveld
2014-03-21 11:59 ` Tom Wijsman
2014-03-21 12:41 ` J. Roeleveld
2014-03-21 13:20 ` Tom Wijsman
2014-03-21 14:06 ` J. Roeleveld
2014-03-21 14:37 ` Tom Wijsman
2014-03-21 17:29 ` Dale
2014-02-16 19:00 ` Yuri K. Shatroff [this message]
2014-02-16 19:26 ` Mick
2014-02-16 19:55 ` Yuri K. Shatroff
2014-02-16 20:27 ` Canek Peláez Valdés
2014-02-16 20:56 ` Volker Armin Hemmann
2014-02-18 21:05 ` Sebastian Beßler
2014-02-18 21:32 ` Canek Peláez Valdés
2014-02-18 22:35 ` Alan McKinnon
2014-02-19 0:18 ` Canek Peláez Valdés
2014-02-19 12:57 ` Tanstaafl
2014-02-20 5:06 ` Mike Gilbert
2014-03-21 11:41 ` Tom Wijsman
2014-02-17 12:17 ` Tanstaafl
2014-02-17 12:24 ` Daniel Campbell
2014-02-17 15:00 ` Alan McKinnon
2014-02-17 17:13 ` Canek Peláez Valdés
2014-02-17 18:24 ` Andrew Savchenko
2014-02-18 0:49 ` Canek Peláez Valdés
2014-02-18 17:44 ` Andrew Savchenko
2014-02-18 18:09 ` Canek Peláez Valdés
2014-02-17 18:28 ` Yuri K. Shatroff
2014-02-18 1:09 ` Canek Peláez Valdés
2014-02-18 11:35 ` Andrew Savchenko
2014-02-18 15:02 ` Canek Peláez Valdés
2014-02-18 17:24 ` Yuri K. Shatroff
2014-02-18 17:46 ` Canek Peláez Valdés
2014-02-18 8:19 ` [gentoo-user] " Nicolas Sebrecht
2014-02-18 14:25 ` Canek Peláez Valdés
2014-02-18 19:24 ` gottlieb
2014-02-16 20:19 ` [gentoo-user] " Canek Peláez Valdés
2014-02-16 20:59 ` Volker Armin Hemmann
2014-02-17 7:01 ` Yuri K. Shatroff
2014-02-23 13:35 ` Mick
2014-02-23 18:18 ` Canek Peláez Valdés
2014-02-23 22:32 ` Alan McKinnon
2014-02-23 23:05 ` Canek Peláez Valdés
2014-02-23 23:12 ` Mick
2014-02-23 23:54 ` Canek Peláez Valdés
2014-02-24 20:54 ` Mick
2014-02-24 21:48 ` Canek Peláez Valdés
2014-02-24 23:15 ` Mick
2014-02-25 12:40 ` Gentoo+Gnome requires systemd, but Gnome itself does not? Why? - WAS: " Tanstaafl
2014-02-25 12:58 ` Alan McKinnon
2014-02-25 16:26 ` Canek Peláez Valdés
2014-02-24 1:07 ` Alan McKinnon
2014-02-24 2:10 ` Walter Dnes
2014-02-24 2:20 ` Canek Peláez Valdés
2014-02-24 2:49 ` Poison BL.
2014-02-24 2:30 ` Mark David Dumlao
2014-02-24 6:37 ` Yuri K. Shatroff
2014-02-24 7:11 ` Yuri K. Shatroff
2014-02-24 12:39 ` Mark David Dumlao
2014-02-24 13:42 ` Yuri K. Shatroff
2014-02-24 14:33 ` Mark David Dumlao
2014-02-24 17:42 ` Yuri K. Shatroff
2014-02-24 18:55 ` Mark David Dumlao
2014-02-24 20:13 ` Yuri K. Shatroff
2014-02-26 20:29 ` Walter Dnes
2014-02-28 6:47 ` Stroller
2014-02-28 8:05 ` Samuli Suominen
2014-02-28 13:45 ` Stroller
2014-03-01 11:29 ` Mick
2014-03-21 11:35 ` Tom Wijsman
2014-02-15 20:30 ` Daniel Campbell
2014-02-15 21:32 ` Gevisz
2014-02-16 2:09 ` [gentoo-user] " walt
2014-02-16 2:23 ` Alon Bar-Lev
2014-02-21 0:08 ` Daniel Campbell
2014-02-21 1:42 ` Canek Peláez Valdés
2014-02-21 2:39 ` Daniel Campbell
2014-02-21 2:53 ` Canek Peláez Valdés
2014-02-21 3:22 ` Daniel Campbell
2014-02-21 21:04 ` Canek Peláez Valdés
2014-02-21 13:24 ` Tanstaafl
2014-02-21 13:34 ` Daniel Campbell
2014-02-21 13:43 ` Tanstaafl
2014-02-21 13:54 ` Daniel Campbell
2014-02-21 14:03 ` Tanstaafl
2014-02-21 15:28 ` Gevisz
2014-02-21 15:56 ` OT: 'profit motive' - WAS " Tanstaafl
2014-02-21 16:23 ` hasufell
2014-02-21 16:50 ` Tanstaafl
2014-02-21 17:17 ` hasufell
2014-02-21 18:05 ` Tanstaafl
2014-02-21 19:35 ` hasufell
2014-02-21 20:02 ` Tanstaafl
2014-02-22 0:59 ` hasufell
2014-02-21 22:32 ` Gevisz
2014-02-21 22:29 ` Gevisz
2014-02-21 7:42 ` Andrew Savchenko
2014-02-21 21:32 ` Sebastian Beßler
2014-02-21 22:43 ` Canek Peláez Valdés
2014-02-26 10:05 ` Stefan G. Weichinger
2014-02-21 22:19 ` Canek Peláez Valdés
2014-02-21 13:48 ` Tanstaafl
2014-02-16 18:49 ` [gentoo-user] " Volker Armin Hemmann
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