From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A43AD138BF3 for ; Sat, 15 Feb 2014 20:34:44 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 2D769E0B7E; Sat, 15 Feb 2014 20:34:36 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mahal.bihira.com (mahal.bihira.com [50.7.77.170]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1FE9DE0B1F for ; Sat, 15 Feb 2014 20:34:35 +0000 (UTC) Received: from 176.70-40-234.netnet.net ([70.40.234.176]:50200 helo=[192.168.1.144]) by mahal.bihira.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1WElwX-0036gk-54 for gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org; Sat, 15 Feb 2014 20:34:33 +0000 Message-ID: <52FFCF5A.9070302@sporkbox.us> Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2014 14:34:34 -0600 From: Daniel Campbell User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.2.0 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Debian just voted in systemd for default init system in jessie References: <52FF84CE.2050301@libertytrek.org> <52FF9D58.3000608@libertytrek.org> <201402152023.10543.michaelkintzios@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - mahal.bihira.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - lists.gentoo.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - sporkbox.us X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: mahal.bihira.com: authenticated_id: lists@sporkbox.us X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Archives-Salt: 602ac1f9-ffa0-488d-98df-43dc2572cc13 X-Archives-Hash: 3121a418af699758de8ee8db46d9415a On 02/15/2014 02:32 PM, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote: > On Sat, Feb 15, 2014 at 2:23 PM, Mick wrote: >> On Saturday 15 Feb 2014 17:32:44 Canek Peláez Valdés wrote: >>> On Feb 15, 2014 11:02 AM, "Tanstaafl" wrote: >>>> On 2014-02-15 10:16 AM, Tanstaafl wrote: >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> >>>>> Not to revive a flame-fest against systemd, but... >>>>> >>>>> I'm sure some or most of you have already heard about this, but I found >>>>> a really decent thread discussing this whole systemd thing. It is only >>>>> really comparing systemd and upstart, as that was the debate going on in >>>>> the debian TC, but it is a great read, and has actually made me rethink >>>>> my blind objections to systemd a bit. >>>> >>>> One of which was logging: >>>> >>>> "20. Myth: systemd makes it impossible to run syslog. >>>> >>>> Not true, we carefully made sure when we introduced the journal that all >>> >>> data is also passed on to any syslog daemon running. In fact, if something >>> changed, then only that syslog gets more complete data now than it got >>> before, since we now cover early boot stuff as well as STDOUT/STDERR of any >>> system service." >>> >>>> From: http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/the-biggest-myths.html >>> >>> Also, for those of you who don't follow Linux-related news, Ubuntu will >>> also change to systemd in the future: >>> >>> http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/1316 >>> >>> And I *heard* that Slackware was also discussing the possibility, but since >>> I don't follow Slackware at all, I don't know for sure. >>> >>> Anyway, distros not using systemd, and that they are not really small >>> and/or niche, seem to be disappearing. The discussion that Tanstaafl posted >>> is interesting since the arguments used by the four TC members are really >>> focused on the technical merits of the proposed init systems. >> >> There was a thread sometime last year mentioning a slimmer/slicker and obeying >> to the *nix design principles initialisation system, but can't find it at the >> moment. Isn't that at all in the running? > > For Slackware, I have no idea. For Debian, no the only options were[1]: > > 1. sysvinit (status quo) > 2. systemd > 3. upstart > 4. openrc (experimental) > 5. One system on Linux, something else on non-linux > 6. multiple > > It should also be noted that no one in the TC voted OpenRC above > systemd AND upstart, and that while a couple voted systemd below > everything else, it can be argued that it was a tactical vote. > > Regards. > > [1] https://wiki.debian.org/Debate/initsystem/ > Why didn't they consider runit? It has parallel execution of daemons and is backwards compatible with sysv. It has a few other mini-features as well, iirc. I used for a little while before Arch pushed systemd on their community and it was interesting.