[gentoo-user] Can we get users more involved in specific testing?

[gentoo-user] Can we get users more involved in specific testing?

[hasufell]

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Our arch testers are understaffed and often don't really do general
runtime tests (it's mostly assumed the maintainer knows about runtime
issues).

I have often had a hard time to get some random users comment on
certain packages or even assist on some runtime tests. I don't even
know how many people use the package I maintain.

This makes it very difficult on some decisions when to stabilize
non-trivial stuff like media-gfx/blender or
sci-visualization/paraview. I don't use those things on a daily basis.

I'm wondering if it would make any sense to set up some kind of portal
to track at least such delicate packages where we need users to
comment on general stability and especially runtime issues. (actually
the bug-tracker was meant for that, but it seems that doesn't work out
for general user reports... those are very rare)

So when any1 of you is really bored, he could chime in there, do some
random testing (or maybe you already use it on a daily basis...) and
report it. It wouldn't really need to be professional.
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Re: [gentoo-user] Can we get users more involved in specific testing?

[gottlieb]

On Sun, Nov 10 2013, hasufell@gentoo.org wrote:

> I'm wondering if it would make any sense to set up some kind of portal
> to track at least such delicate packages where we need users to
> comment on general stability and especially runtime issues. (actually
> the bug-tracker was meant for that, but it seems that doesn't work out
> for general user reports... those are very rare)
>
> So when any1 of you is really bored, he could chime in there, do some
> random testing (or maybe you already use it on a daily basis...) and
> report it. It wouldn't really need to be professional.

I would be willing to do some testing.
allan

Re: [gentoo-user] Can we get users more involved in specific testing?

[the]

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> So when any1 of you is really bored, he could chime in there, do
> some random testing (or maybe you already use it on a daily
> basis...) and report it. It wouldn't really need to be
> professional.

Sure, but x86 only and not very long compile time :)

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Re: [gentoo-user] Can we get users more involved in specific testing?

[Philip Webb]

131110 hasufell wrote:
> I have often had a hard time to get some random users comment
> on certain packages or even assist on some runtime tests.
> I don't even know how many people use the package I maintain.
> This makes it very difficult on some decisions
> when to stabilize non-trivial stuff like media-gfx/blender
> or sci-visualization/paraview. I don't use those things on a daily basis.
> Would it make any sense to set up some kind of portal
> to track at least such delicate packages where we need users
> to comment on general stability and especially runtime issues ?

There are a lot of simple pkgs sitting in 'testing' for a long time
-- eg  lilo  vifm  dhcpcd  -- , which probably sb moved to stable.
I try to stick to 'stable' for vital system stuff,
but am prepared to use testing versions of eg KDE + LO ,
whose upstream maintenance seems to be very solid.
(I never do 'emerge world' without '-Dup' & merge all pkgs individually).

If it were quick + easy to report somewhere that such pkgs work well,
I wb willing to try 'testing' versions a bit more often
& try to help the devs with their decision-making.
I would not be willing to install red-masked versions of anything.

-- 
========================,,============================================
SUPPORT     ___________//___,   Philip Webb
ELECTRIC   /] [] [] [] [] []|   Cities Centre, University of Toronto
TRANSIT    `-O----------O---'   purslowatchassdotutorontodotca

[gentoo-user] Re: Can we get users more involved in specific testing?

[James]

hasufell <hasufell <at> gentoo.org> writes:


> Our arch testers are understaffed and often don't really do general
> runtime tests (it's mostly assumed the maintainer knows about runtime
> issues).

> I have often had a hard time to get some random users comment on
> certain packages or even assist on some runtime tests. I don't even
> know how many people use the package I maintain.


When a new package is installed or upgraded, there are notes that the
installer is optioned (and notified upon installation) about the 
package.  Might it be a good idea to put your testing pleadings
in the notes for those how install the package (stable, testing,
experimental or overlay) about how to contact whoever related to
the specific testing you want done? I. E. "eselect news" or is this
a bad idea?


JFFNMS is one of my favorite packages, so surely I'd respond on that
one. Hell, I often go and find the patches and post bugs pleading to
get documented patches installed on my favorite package.


hth,
James

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Can we get users more involved in specific testing?

[hasufell]

On 11/14/2013 12:21 AM, James wrote:
> hasufell <hasufell <at> gentoo.org> writes:
> 
> 
>> Our arch testers are understaffed and often don't really do general
>> runtime tests (it's mostly assumed the maintainer knows about runtime
>> issues).
> 
>> I have often had a hard time to get some random users comment on
>> certain packages or even assist on some runtime tests. I don't even
>> know how many people use the package I maintain.
> 
> 
> When a new package is installed or upgraded, there are notes that the
> installer is optioned (and notified upon installation) about the 
> package.  Might it be a good idea to put your testing pleadings
> in the notes for those how install the package (stable, testing,
> experimental or overlay) about how to contact whoever related to
> the specific testing you want done? I. E. "eselect news" or is this
> a bad idea?
> 
> 
> JFFNMS is one of my favorite packages, so surely I'd respond on that
> one. Hell, I often go and find the patches and post bugs pleading to
> get documented patches installed on my favorite package.
> 
> 
> hth,
> James
> 
> 

I think people will not like having that in eselect news. There could be
a similar thing like:

eslect test-requests

but the question is if that will get bloated and other stuff I'm not
sure about.

The easiest thing I can think of is a project site on our wiki which
would also point to relevant bugs. Then again... who really wants to
maintain that.

All other ideas are even more advanced.

I wonder if we could add a keyword on bugzie like REQUSERTEST... so
bored users could easily get a list of such bugs. But who would really
use that?

[gentoo-user] Re: Can we get users more involved in specific testing?

[James]

hasufell <hasufell <at> gentoo.org> writes:


> >> I have often had a hard time to get some random users comment on
> >> certain packages or even assist on some runtime tests. I don't even
> >> know how many people use the package I maintain.

> > When a new package is installed or upgraded, there are notes that the
> > installer is optioned (and notified upon installation) about the 
> > package.  Might it be a good idea to put your testing pleadings
> > in the notes for those how install the package (stable, testing,
> > experimental or overlay) about how to contact whoever related to
> > the specific testing you want done? I. E. "eselect news" or is this
> > a bad idea?

> I think people will not like having that in eselect news. There could be
> a similar thing like:  eslect test-requests
> but the question is if that will get bloated and other stuff I'm not
> sure about.

Other than news, folks will not read it. As long as the announcement
is short!: TESTERS_WANTED (url to details), then you hit the specific
group, actually using the software; responding because they care. It
affects them directly. Futhermore, they can quickly become the best
testers, because most will use the target package, frequently.


> The easiest thing I can think of is a project site on our wiki which
> would also point to relevant bugs. Then again... who really wants to
> maintain that.

This approach will fail, because it is a blunt instrument. Too many will 
get the managerie of info about things they can little for (zippO)....

> All other ideas are even more advanced.
> I wonder if we could add a keyword on bugzie like REQUSERTEST... so
> bored users could easily get a list of such bugs. But who would really
> use that?

Bugzilla is a wonderful, but BLUNT instrument, hence few bother with
filling bugs.   Gentoo devs are very picky about what get's filed
so for Gentoo issues, FOCUS on where the actual users can be reached, with
a focused message, imho. I. E. request testers from the pool of folks
that actually install a given package. Ya don't have to get folks to
test things like portage, cause we all use it and care about it and bitch
about it (that is until Zac took it over and slaid the deamon_portage. 

A given ancillary package usually has few users, so find a way to
communicate with those packages_installers as the pool for potential
testers, with whatevery instrument you like. Mathematically, blunt
instruments fail more than 99% of the time, particularly the tigher
the desired end result is.......


Besides, most do not read the ebuild notes availabe in the 'eselect news',
imho.


ciao,
James

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Can we get users more involved in specific testing?

[the]

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On 11/14/13 18:48, James wrote:
> hasufell <hasufell <at> gentoo.org> writes:
> 
> 
>>>> I have often had a hard time to get some random users comment
>>>> on certain packages or even assist on some runtime tests. I
>>>> don't even know how many people use the package I maintain.
> 
>>> When a new package is installed or upgraded, there are notes
>>> that the installer is optioned (and notified upon installation)
>>> about the package.  Might it be a good idea to put your testing
>>> pleadings in the notes for those how install the package
>>> (stable, testing, experimental or overlay) about how to contact
>>> whoever related to the specific testing you want done? I. E.
>>> "eselect news" or is this a bad idea?
> 
>> I think people will not like having that in eselect news. There
>> could be a similar thing like:  eslect test-requests but the
>> question is if that will get bloated and other stuff I'm not sure
>> about.
> 
> Other than news, folks will not read it. As long as the
> announcement is short!: TESTERS_WANTED (url to details), then you
> hit the specific group, actually using the software; responding
> because they care. It affects them directly. Futhermore, they can
> quickly become the best testers, because most will use the target
> package, frequently.
> 
> 
>> The easiest thing I can think of is a project site on our wiki
>> which would also point to relevant bugs. Then again... who really
>> wants to maintain that.
> 
> This approach will fail, because it is a blunt instrument. Too many
> will get the managerie of info about things they can little for
> (zippO)....
> 
>> All other ideas are even more advanced. I wonder if we could add
>> a keyword on bugzie like REQUSERTEST... so bored users could
>> easily get a list of such bugs. But who would really use that?
> 
> Bugzilla is a wonderful, but BLUNT instrument, hence few bother
> with filling bugs.   Gentoo devs are very picky about what get's
> filed so for Gentoo issues, FOCUS on where the actual users can be
> reached, with a focused message, imho. I. E. request testers from
> the pool of folks that actually install a given package. Ya don't
> have to get folks to test things like portage, cause we all use it
> and care about it and bitch about it (that is until Zac took it
> over and slaid the deamon_portage.
> 
> A given ancillary package usually has few users, so find a way to 
> communicate with those packages_installers as the pool for
> potential testers, with whatevery instrument you like.
> Mathematically, blunt instruments fail more than 99% of the time,
> particularly the tigher the desired end result is.......
> 
> 
> Besides, most do not read the ebuild notes availabe in the 'eselect
> news', imho.
> 

A seperate mailing list?

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