[gentoo-user] Upgrade Question

[gentoo-user] Upgrade Question

[Silvio Siefke]

Hello, 

i run emerge -avuDN @world and again must recompile packages. Why, i
understand not why? I have no probs with small packages, but why 
again libreoffice? I change nothing in USE Flags, but portage want
recompile. Can me explain someone why?

These are the packages that would be merged, in order:

Calculating dependencies... done!
[ebuild     U  ] net-print/cups-1.6.4 [1.6.2-r5] USE="X acl dbus filters pam python ssl threads -debug -gnutls -java -kerberos -lprng-compat (-selinux) -static-libs -usb -xinetd -zeroconf" LINGUAS="fr -ca -es -ja -ru" PYTHON_SINGLE_TARGET="python2_7%* -python2_6%" PYTHON_TARGETS="python2_7%* -python2_6%" 0 kB
[ebuild  r  U  ] app-text/poppler-0.24.3:0/43 [0.22.5:0/37] USE="cairo cxx introspection jpeg lcms png qt4 tiff utils -cjk -curl -debug -doc -jpeg2k" 0 kB
[ebuild  r  U  ] net-print/cups-filters-1.0.36-r1 [1.0.34-r1] USE="jpeg png tiff -perl -static-libs -zeroconf" 0 kB
[ebuild  rR    ] media-gfx/inkscape-0.48.4  USE="lcms nls spell -dia -gnome -inkjar -postscript -wmf" 0 kB
[ebuild  rR    ] app-text/xournal-0.4.7  USE="pdf -vanilla" 0 kB
[ebuild  rR   #] app-office/libreoffice-4.1.2.3  USE="cups dbus gtk opengl vba (-aqua) -bluetooth -branding -debug -eds -gnome -gstreamer -gtk3 -java -jemalloc -kde -mysql -odk -postgres -telepathy {-test} -webdav" LIBREOFFICE_EXTENSIONS="presenter-minimizer -nlpsolver -scripting-beanshell -scripting-javascript -wiki-publisher" PYTHON_SINGLE_TARGET="python2_7 -python3_3" PYTHON_TARGETS="python2_7 -python3_3" 0 kB
[ebuild  rR   ~] app-text/calibre-1.7  USE="udisks" 0 kB

Total: 7 packages (3 upgrades, 4 reinstalls), Size of downloads: 0 kB

The following mask changes are necessary to proceed:
 (see "package.unmask" in the portage(5) man page for more details)
# required by @__auto_slot_operator_replace_installed__ (argument)
# /etc/portage/package.mask:
=app-office/libreoffice-4.1.2.3


Libreoffice need long time, without big use flags.

gentoomobile siefke # genlop -t libreoffice
 * app-office/libreoffice

     Mon Jun 17 20:44:35 2013 >>> app-office/libreoffice-4.0.3.3
       merge time: 13 hours, 28 minutes and 15 seconds.

     Fri Jun 21 22:11:39 2013 >>> app-office/libreoffice-4.0.4.2
       merge time: 13 hours, 39 minutes and 2 seconds.

     Wed Jun 26 14:25:10 2013 >>> app-office/libreoffice-4.1.0.1
       merge time: 14 hours, 15 minutes and 41 seconds.

     Mon Jul 15 09:24:27 2013 >>> app-office/libreoffice-4.1.0.2
       merge time: 14 hours, 7 minutes and 57 seconds.

     Sun Sep 22 19:59:07 2013 >>> app-office/libreoffice-4.1.1.2
       merge time: 14 hours, 9 minutes and 56 seconds.

     Fri Oct 25 00:35:01 2013 >>> app-office/libreoffice-4.1.2.3
       merge time: 17 hours, 51 minutes and 30 seconds.


Thanks for help & Nice day
Silvio

Re: [gentoo-user] Upgrade Question

[Alan McKinnon]

On 01/11/2013 16:19, Silvio Siefke wrote:
> Hello, 
> 
> i run emerge -avuDN @world and again must recompile packages. Why, i
> understand not why? I have no probs with small packages, but why 
> again libreoffice? I change nothing in USE Flags, but portage want
> recompile. Can me explain someone why?
> 
> These are the packages that would be merged, in order:
> 
> Calculating dependencies... done!
> [ebuild     U  ] net-print/cups-1.6.4 [1.6.2-r5] USE="X acl dbus filters pam python ssl threads -debug -gnutls -java -kerberos -lprng-compat (-selinux) -static-libs -usb -xinetd -zeroconf" LINGUAS="fr -ca -es -ja -ru" PYTHON_SINGLE_TARGET="python2_7%* -python2_6%" PYTHON_TARGETS="python2_7%* -python2_6%" 0 kB
> [ebuild  r  U  ] app-text/poppler-0.24.3:0/43 [0.22.5:0/37] USE="cairo cxx introspection jpeg lcms png qt4 tiff utils -cjk -curl -debug -doc -jpeg2k" 0 kB
> [ebuild  r  U  ] net-print/cups-filters-1.0.36-r1 [1.0.34-r1] USE="jpeg png tiff -perl -static-libs -zeroconf" 0 kB
> [ebuild  rR    ] media-gfx/inkscape-0.48.4  USE="lcms nls spell -dia -gnome -inkjar -postscript -wmf" 0 kB
> [ebuild  rR    ] app-text/xournal-0.4.7  USE="pdf -vanilla" 0 kB
> [ebuild  rR   #] app-office/libreoffice-4.1.2.3  USE="cups dbus gtk opengl vba (-aqua) -bluetooth -branding -debug -eds -gnome -gstreamer -gtk3 -java -jemalloc -kde -mysql -odk -postgres -telepathy {-test} -webdav" LIBREOFFICE_EXTENSIONS="presenter-minimizer -nlpsolver -scripting-beanshell -scripting-javascript -wiki-publisher" PYTHON_SINGLE_TARGET="python2_7 -python3_3" PYTHON_TARGETS="python2_7 -python3_3" 0 kB
> [ebuild  rR   ~] app-text/calibre-1.7  USE="udisks" 0 kB


Thsi is not the first time you ask the question "Why does package X need
to be rebuilt?" Every time you want to know this, run emerge again with
the -t option, it shows the dependency tree and that shows you why the
package is being rebuilt.

In this specific case, it's poppler.

Poppler is the second most annoying package in the universe (first is
icu). The way it is coded and built, every tiny little change seems to
cause API/ABI changes and means that everything using it must be
rebuilt. What uses poppler? Almost everything that tries to deal with
pdf, and that is half of app-text and app-office. That's just how it is.

Look in the ebuilds for libreoffice, inkscape and xournal. Each one of
them has a DEPEND something like this:

        >=app-text/poppler-0.16:=[xpdf-headers(+),cxx]

Notice the ":=" in there, that's a sub-slot operator and it triggers a
rebuild of libreoffice everytime poppler is upgraded. Your emerge output
shows that poppler is to be upgraded and that's why libreoffice now
needs to be upgraded too. If you don't upgrade it, it might be broken
(or maybe not, it's almost impossible to tell). Dont blame libreoffice,
blame the poppler devs and tell them to get their act together and stop
changing stuff every other day.


> 
> Total: 7 packages (3 upgrades, 4 reinstalls), Size of downloads: 0 kB
> 
> The following mask changes are necessary to proceed:
>  (see "package.unmask" in the portage(5) man page for more details)
> # required by @__auto_slot_operator_replace_installed__ (argument)
> # /etc/portage/package.mask:
> =app-office/libreoffice-4.1.2.3


You also need to deal with this.
You masked libreoffice-4.1.2.3 but it's also still installed. That is
inconsistent; either unmask it and rebuild or leave it masked and downgrade.


> 
> 
> Libreoffice need long time, without big use flags.
> 
> gentoomobile siefke # genlop -t libreoffice
>  * app-office/libreoffice
> 
>      Mon Jun 17 20:44:35 2013 >>> app-office/libreoffice-4.0.3.3
>        merge time: 13 hours, 28 minutes and 15 seconds.
> 
>      Fri Jun 21 22:11:39 2013 >>> app-office/libreoffice-4.0.4.2
>        merge time: 13 hours, 39 minutes and 2 seconds.
> 
>      Wed Jun 26 14:25:10 2013 >>> app-office/libreoffice-4.1.0.1
>        merge time: 14 hours, 15 minutes and 41 seconds.
> 
>      Mon Jul 15 09:24:27 2013 >>> app-office/libreoffice-4.1.0.2
>        merge time: 14 hours, 7 minutes and 57 seconds.
> 
>      Sun Sep 22 19:59:07 2013 >>> app-office/libreoffice-4.1.1.2
>        merge time: 14 hours, 9 minutes and 56 seconds.
> 
>      Fri Oct 25 00:35:01 2013 >>> app-office/libreoffice-4.1.2.3
>        merge time: 17 hours, 51 minutes and 30 seconds.
> 
> 
> Thanks for help & Nice day
> Silvio
> 


-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan.mckinnon@gmail.com

Re: [gentoo-user] Upgrade Question

[Silvio Siefke]

Hello,

On Fri, 01 Nov 2013 22:40:15 +0200 Alan McKinnon
<alan.mckinnon@gmail.com> wrote:

> Thsi is not the first time you ask the question "Why does package X
> need to be rebuilt?" Every time you want to know this, run emerge
> again with the -t option, it shows the dependency tree and that shows
> you why the package is being rebuilt.

Yes that's right & I'm sorry that I nerve. Maybe i change to Arch, i has
installed on other Netbook and run without Problems and for a binary 
System is fast. 

 
> In this specific case, it's poppler.
> 
> Poppler is the second most annoying package in the universe (first is
> icu). The way it is coded and built, every tiny little change seems to
> cause API/ABI changes and means that everything using it must be
> rebuilt. What uses poppler? Almost everything that tries to deal with
> pdf, and that is half of app-text and app-office. That's just how it
> is.
> 
> Look in the ebuilds for libreoffice, inkscape and xournal. Each one of
> them has a DEPEND something like this:
> 
>         >=app-text/poppler-0.16:=[xpdf-headers(+),cxx]

Yes i have see that and has find out that poppler is the problem.

> Notice the ":=" in there, that's a sub-slot operator and it triggers a
> rebuild of libreoffice everytime poppler is upgraded. Your emerge
> output shows that poppler is to be upgraded and that's why
> libreoffice now needs to be upgraded too. If you don't upgrade it, it
> might be broken (or maybe not, it's almost impossible to tell). Dont
> blame libreoffice, blame the poppler devs and tell them to get their
> act together and stop changing stuff every other day.

I has run libreoffice without problems, but i not use the pdf function
in libreoffice. I write and print :) . I deal at moment with Abiword and
Gnumeric. I think its enough so that i should delete libreoffice. Then
only Webkit of GTK, QT and GCC which need more as one hour. 

> You also need to deal with this.
> You masked libreoffice-4.1.2.3 but it's also still installed. That is
> inconsistent; either unmask it and rebuild or leave it masked and
> downgrade.

Yes i mask bigger package when i saw in @world and not see why should run 
upgrade. I know Gentoo is rolling release, but in some things must not really
be or? 

Thanks for teaching about poppler. I not know thats so important. And what do 
ICU? Its language files or? 

So again im sorry i nerve i know, but thats we can say so: Social Contacts
important :) 

I find funny because the bigger Programs or important Stuff like kernel has
never and in panic, and so small program like poppler make panic. When someone
say size is important, hhh they not know what they say. 


Thank you & Greetings
Silvio

Re: [gentoo-user] Upgrade Question

[Alan McKinnon]

On 02/11/2013 01:31, Silvio Siefke wrote:
>> You also need to deal with this.
>> > You masked libreoffice-4.1.2.3 but it's also still installed. That is
>> > inconsistent; either unmask it and rebuild or leave it masked and
>> > downgrade.
> Yes i mask bigger package when i saw in @world and not see why should run 
> upgrade. I know Gentoo is rolling release, but in some things must not really
> be or? 

gentoo is what it is, there's no such thing as it must be this or it
must be that.

When libreoffice releases a new version, gentoo probably releases a new
ebuild to match. It's just that simple. If you don't want to upgrade,
mask all higher versions than the one you have.

> 
> Thanks for teaching about poppler. I not know thats so important. And what do 
> ICU? Its language files or? 

International Components for Unicode.

> 
> So again im sorry i nerve i know, but thats we can say so: Social Contacts
> important :) 
> 
> I find funny because the bigger Programs or important Stuff like kernel has
> never and in panic, and so small program like poppler make panic. When someone
> say size is important, hhh they not know what they say. 

I don't understand. Size has nothing to do with it.

Program X needs library Y.
Library Y changes.
Program X needs to be rebuilt.




-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan.mckinnon@gmail.com

Re: [gentoo-user] Upgrade Question

[wabenbau]

Am Freitag, 01.11.2013 um 15:19
schrieb Silvio Siefke <siefke_listen@web.de>:

> Libreoffice need long time, without big use flags.
> 
> gentoomobile siefke # genlop -t libreoffice
>  * app-office/libreoffice
[...]
>      Fri Oct 25 00:35:01 2013 >>> app-office/libreoffice-4.1.2.3
>        merge time: 17 hours, 51 minutes and 30 seconds.

Maybe you should consider to use ccache. It considerable reduces the
merge time if you have to rebuild a package.

     Tue Oct 22 22:05:31 2013 >>> app-office/libreoffice-4.1.2.3
       merge time: 1 hour, 24 minutes and 27 seconds.

     Fri Nov  1 19:06:17 2013 >>> app-office/libreoffice-4.1.2.3
       merge time: 9 minutes and 5 seconds.

Regards

Re: [gentoo-user] Upgrade Question

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Sat, 2 Nov 2013 03:38:12 +0100, wabenbau@gmail.com wrote:

> Maybe you should consider to use ccache. It considerable reduces the
> merge time if you have to rebuild a package.

It also creates elusive build failures with some packages, which is why I
stopped using it.

>      Tue Oct 22 22:05:31 2013 >>> app-office/libreoffice-4.1.2.3
>        merge time: 1 hour, 24 minutes and 27 seconds.
> 
>      Fri Nov  1 19:06:17 2013 >>> app-office/libreoffice-4.1.2.3
>        merge time: 9 minutes and 5 seconds.

Impressive, I think I'll try enabling it for specific packages that will
benefit and don't cause problems.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

This is as bad as it can get; but don't bet on it.

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Re: [gentoo-user] Upgrade Question

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Sat, 2 Nov 2013 09:27:38 +0000, Neil Bothwick wrote:

> > Maybe you should consider to use ccache. It considerable reduces the
> > merge time if you have to rebuild a package.  
> 
> It also creates elusive build failures with some packages, which is why
> I stopped using it.
> 
> >      Tue Oct 22 22:05:31 2013 >>> app-office/libreoffice-4.1.2.3
> >        merge time: 1 hour, 24 minutes and 27 seconds.
> > 
> >      Fri Nov  1 19:06:17 2013 >>> app-office/libreoffice-4.1.2.3
> >        merge time: 9 minutes and 5 seconds.  
> 
> Impressive, I think I'll try enabling it for specific packages that will
> benefit and don't cause problems.

On the other hand, after reading man make.conf, maybe it is not such a
good idea except in very limited cases.

Warning: This feature is known to cause numerous compilation failures.
Sometimes ccache will retain stale code objects or corrupted files, which
can lead to packages that cannot be emerged. If this happens (if you
receive errors like "File not recognized: File truncated"), try
recompiling the application with ccache disabled before reporting a bug.
Unless you are doing development work, do not enable ccache.

That reads more like an instruction than a recommendation.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Sarchasm : The gulf between the author of sarcastic wit and the person
who doesn't get it.

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Re: [gentoo-user] Upgrade Question

[Silvio Siefke]

Hey,

what is with distcc? When i understand correct that can use to share
the merge process. Can i use with diffrent arch? I use gentoo on
netbook with atom and amd64 and some rootserver with same arch and a
p4 with i686. The p4 is in same network but can this pc use with atom
64 bit? Has someone expirence with distcc and can say is good or not
really.

Ccache sounds good special when see the compile time after update.
Maybe i try it.


Thank you & good weekend

Silvio

Re: [gentoo-user] Upgrade Question

[wabenbau]

Am Samstag, 02.11.2013 um 11:55
schrieb Silvio Siefke <siefke_listen@web.de>:

> Hey,
> 
> what is with distcc? When i understand correct that can use to share
> the merge process. Can i use with diffrent arch? I use gentoo on
> netbook with atom and amd64 and some rootserver with same arch and a
> p4 with i686. The p4 is in same network but can this pc use with atom
> 64 bit? Has someone expirence with distcc and can say is good or not
> really.

Many years ago I used distcc. At this time I had some slower machines
(2 x AMD K5, 3x AMD K6) and distcc was really a booster for many bigger
packages, but it doesn't reduce merge time for small packages and it
also causes problems with some packages (IIRC openoffice was one).

Regards

Re: [gentoo-user] Upgrade Question

[Silvio Siefke]

Hello,

On Sat, 2 Nov 2013 14:24:49 +0100 <wabenbau@gmail.com> wrote:

> Many years ago I used distcc. At this time I had some slower machines
> (2 x AMD K5, 3x AMD K6) and distcc was really a booster for many
> bigger packages, but it doesn't reduce merge time for small packages
> and it also causes problems with some packages (IIRC openoffice was
> one).

I use at moment on my Rootserver i has installed but become more access denied
as results. Anyway i has delete libreoffice and use now abiword and then should
be all ok. 




Thank you & Greetings
Silvio

Re: [gentoo-user] Upgrade Question

[wabenbau]

Am Samstag, 02.11.2013 um 09:35
schrieb Neil Bothwick <neil@digimed.co.uk>:

> > Impressive, I think I'll try enabling it for specific packages that
> > will benefit and don't cause problems.
> 
> On the other hand, after reading man make.conf, maybe it is not such a
> good idea except in very limited cases.
> 
> Warning: This feature is known to cause numerous compilation failures.
> Sometimes ccache will retain stale code objects or corrupted files,
> which can lead to packages that cannot be emerged. If this happens
> (if you receive errors like "File not recognized: File truncated"),
> try recompiling the application with ccache disabled before reporting
> a bug. Unless you are doing development work, do not enable ccache.
> 
> That reads more like an instruction than a recommendation.
> 
> 

ccache has caused some problems with older versions of openoffice, but
this was some years ago. It's always enabled on my hardened desktop and
I can't remember that it caused any other problems since at least two
years. But maybe I just have a weak memory. ;-)

Regards