From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 84F581381F3 for ; Sun, 20 Oct 2013 11:18:33 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 768BEE0C26; Sun, 20 Oct 2013 11:18:28 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mahal.bihira.com (mahal.bihira.com [67.159.5.243]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 764BCE0B92 for ; Sun, 20 Oct 2013 11:18:27 +0000 (UTC) Received: from 54.70-40-233.netnet.net ([70.40.233.54]:58759 helo=[192.168.1.144]) by mahal.bihira.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1VXr1a-000615-DK for gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org; Sun, 20 Oct 2013 11:18:23 +0000 Message-ID: <5263BC00.9080208@sporkbox.us> Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2013 06:18:24 -0500 From: Daniel Campbell User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130921 Thunderbird/17.0.9 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] systemd and kernel developers cooperating to turn it into a global cgroup manager? References: <52629F15.1050803@sporkbox.us> <5263174E.8000004@googlemail.com> <5263795D.2070503@sporkbox.us> <5263A157.4070001@googlemail.com> <5263B5F3.9020604@sporkbox.us> <5263B854.8050505@googlemail.com> In-Reply-To: <5263B854.8050505@googlemail.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.5.2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OutGoing-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.9 X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - mahal.bihira.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - lists.gentoo.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - sporkbox.us X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: mahal.bihira.com: authenticated_id: lists@sporkbox.us X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Archives-Salt: 75f1a051-35d7-41d0-a9df-d6d42ab97285 X-Archives-Hash: 2881324fdeff6ee91efb4822573418d6 On 10/20/2013 06:02 AM, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: > Am 20.10.2013 12:52, schrieb Daniel Campbell: >> On 10/20/2013 04:24 AM, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: >>> Am 20.10.2013 08:34, schrieb Daniel Campbell: >>>> hm, Redhat is one of the companies investing the most money into linux >>>> kernel, userland, graphics... if you 'don't trust them' you are pretty >>>> much 20 years too late. >>>> Investing money does not make them any more qualified or deserving of >>>> making decisions. Red Hat is not the sole user of Linux. They should >>>> consider themselves lucky that they are even able to profit from >>>> something that's free. >>>> >>>> You're right, though. They've been around for a while, and I've never >>>> trusted them or any other corporate interest in *nix. There's always a >>>> catch when dealing with a business. >>>> >>> 'have been around for a while' - replace that with 'are financing more >>> core developers than anybody else'. >>> >> That's less reason to trust, not more. That's like citing the popularity >> of something as proof of its quality, when oftentimes it's the exact >> opposite that's true. >> >> So they spend a lot of money hiring developers. The more important >> question is what is their agenda? What do they tell those developers to >> *make*? You don't hire people without a business plan in mind. >> >> > without Redhat, there would be no linux. gnu software would be massively > lacking and X would be without drivers. > > So calm down. > Linux was created and released in 1991, built with GNU tools. Red Hat didn't come along until 1993. Linux and GNU would both still be here; their quality without Red Hat involvement is speculative at best. I maintain that motives matter more than money and that they (motives) should continually be audited, especially when receiving contributions from a company. They may already be; I don't know. Re: drivers, do you expect me to believe Red Hat is responsible for every X11 driver out there? How many of this list?[1] What of radeon and nouveau? nvidia's own driver? xf86-input-wacom (and linuxwacom)[2]? I'm sure Red Hat has contributed plenty to X11, but your statement is flat-out false. [1]: http://www.usinglinux.org/x11-drivers/ [2]: http://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/linuxwacom/