From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B90461381F3 for ; Mon, 30 Sep 2013 22:15:06 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id E04D7E0BFF; Mon, 30 Sep 2013 22:15:00 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp.alltele.net (smtp.alltele.net [85.30.0.4]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 74B7EE0B7C for ; Mon, 30 Sep 2013 22:14:59 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.1.100] ([87.227.57.71]) by smtp.alltele.net (IceWarp 10.4.5) with ESMTP id 201310010014562132 for ; Tue, 01 Oct 2013 00:14:56 +0200 Message-ID: <5249F7DF.3040400@coolmail.se> Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2013 00:14:55 +0200 From: pk User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130921 Thunderbird/17.0.9 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] systemd installation location References: <20130929195206.GA16744@linux1> <5248CBB9.5010205@sporkbox.us> <5248D8D6.8040901@sporkbox.us> <5249191C.6040306@coolmail.se> <52491E13.9070802@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <52491E13.9070802@gmail.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.5.2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.73 required=5.10 tests=LOCALPART_IN_SUBJECT=0.73 version=3.3.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (1.1) on smtp.alltele.net X-CTCH: RefID="str=0001.0A0B020B.5249F7E0.006D,ss=1,re=0.000,recu=0.000,reip=0.000,cl=1,cld=1,fgs=0"; Spam="Unknown"; VOD="Unknown" X-Archives-Salt: 0bc3d108-91e1-4438-ac4e-9cd2655e8087 X-Archives-Hash: bbf4578a300dbf21e6c25fa810d297c2 On 2013-09-30 08:45, Alan McKinnon wrote: > That is over-simplifying the problem and trivializing it. No-one ever > said the *everythign* in /usr is criticial for boot. Is it really over-simplyfying it? How am I supposed to know whatever comes next? Someone ("upstream") *may* find it boot-critical to have 'Space Invaders' operational during boot. Yes, I say that somewhat *tounge-in-cheek* but the way things are going I'm not so sure anymore... > This is the problem: > > a. There exists code used at boot and early-user space time. It is > critical that this code is available when needed. I fully understand this and *if* I ever were to install code that I *knew* had this dependency I would take a serious look if I really *need* it and only then install it. But it would be up to me to make that decision and take the necessary steps. > b. One cannot predict with absolute certainty 100% of the time what > exactly that critical code is. In a general manner, no, you are correct... Also, see above ("Invaders")... (And if you don't understand what I'm trying to say, I'm saying this is as *arbitrary* as it gets - which you, like me, seem to be opposed to["arbitrariness"]) > c. many reasonable setups turn out to have such critical code in /usr, > and this cannot be reliably predicted in advance So I avoid things like Gnome, pulseaudio, systemd and similar stuff like the plague but I *still* shall be forced to use whatever is dictated by these things[1]? Don't get me wrong, if anyone wants to install Gnome or whatever then they should have the restrictions required by it. > Your second paragraph reveals that you beleive you already know > everything you need to have to boot your system. Now do the same for > every possible Gentoo user out there and have it work 100% of the time > in ALL valid cases. I *do* know everything I need to have to boot my system. I carefully select my hardware and I take particular care of how I set up my system thank you very much. But apparently my system is no longer deemed a "valid case"... so I'm obviously not a "possible Gentoo user" anymore. > Do you now see the problem and the fulls cope and impact of it? I've seen it since *long* before this thread started. The main problem is lack of resources (because of stupid decisions upstream which puts a burden on Gentoo devs) and I can't (currently) help much with that other than through monetary means (donations) but since Gentoo seems to go the way of the dodo for me (or "assimilated" if you will) then I will take my leave. For a while now it has only been inertia keeping me here. Or maybe a hope that things will get better... [1] And no, I'm not blaming systemd, Gnome or any of the other "pests" in particular for this... Best regards Peter K