From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A272A1381F3 for ; Sun, 29 Sep 2013 23:28:01 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 4009BE0FD6; Sun, 29 Sep 2013 23:27:53 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-ob0-f182.google.com (mail-ob0-f182.google.com [209.85.214.182]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 04F0FE0FAE for ; Sun, 29 Sep 2013 23:27:51 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-ob0-f182.google.com with SMTP id wo20so4596617obc.13 for ; Sun, 29 Sep 2013 16:27:51 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=S7b+sc8t8H6/ve6fQw5Yk9qmyIPaMZ6bLdqu++zFyJI=; b=bz64glNKK5jUW2fodjqekdUwbUOAv2xFfqC+wo0p0w3OzZ7fM9Jqv1NY5Zp5NbE6U4 mlvndfQbLbgb4EkFy/XAEDyrOCJ/F2nSYf8sA1TobaRv5KvA7wSkVRJgFq+qTJnH0p9T k70w3G9huztGqmJBk/wsh8Xopbo08AjZwAwxDkah4mlx2Aksfh1aZczlkWQtEKP4BNCJ 3YFNIBdD/Y1nluMtHo6QP0Kr+Mpcfvc2Cd76Ti7ny8QOlwu/9yv+AQvNN6E0w7C04Gyd UJGfR747iMrYrTdABseluiuOTcjEkjuBM/drYJJ6zqJc6ac8Vr8YOvvSUeFKcTncmuS1 PZSQ== X-Received: by 10.60.136.226 with SMTP id qd2mr17131581oeb.20.1380497271143; Sun, 29 Sep 2013 16:27:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.2.5] (adsl-98-95-149-129.jan.bellsouth.net. [98.95.149.129]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id u8sm25610672obd.7.1969.12.31.16.00.00 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Sun, 29 Sep 2013 16:27:50 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <5248B775.9070002@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2013 18:27:49 -0500 From: Dale User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/24.0 SeaMonkey/2.21 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] separate / and /usr to require initramfs 2013-11-01 References: <20130927222109.GD23408@server> <5246079E.7090406@gmail.com> <20130927223916.GE23408@server> <52460D42.2080109@gmail.com> <52461056.9020604@gmail.com> <5246BE35.3010408@libertytrek.org> <5246D674.1010806@hadt.biz> <5246F07F.8050100@gmail.com> <524716C0.203@hadt.biz> <52471D5B.2020506@gmail.com> <52483E04.4040900@libertytrek.org> <52484627.1020102@gmail.com> <5248656F.3060602@libertytrek.org> <524870B4.8090905@gmail.com> <52487531.8080902@libertytrek.org> <52489D19.6080802@gmail.com> <5248B091.3070406@libertytrek.org> In-Reply-To: <5248B091.3070406@libertytrek.org> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.5.2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archives-Salt: 7380997b-e7b3-49bb-9c00-b3e86d89bcd6 X-Archives-Hash: e00ba892f436a0fd4b32df41851d362c Tanstaafl wrote: > On 2013-09-29 5:35 PM, Dale wrote: >> Tanstaafl wrote: >>> Ok, but... everything I've read and personal experience over the years >>> shows that space required for /usr should not change much, especially >>> constantly grow over time (like requirements for /home can and will)- >>> it may fluctuate (increase, decrease) *a little* over time, but it >>> definitely should not grow substantially, so, if you had to resize it, >>> most likely it is because you simply didn't allocate enough room to >>> start with. > >> So my experience doesn't matter any then? > > Dale, that is NOT what I said, and nothing I am saying is intended to > be offensive. > >> My /usr does vary and sometimes varies quite a bit. > > The question you should be asking yourself then, is WHY? To me, it doesn't matter why it varies, it just does. After each update, I check to see what the partitions look like. The biggest change was going from KDE3 to KDE4. That seemed to make things grow a good bit. Other things I install/uninstall seem to change things too. > >> That is why I had to resize the thing. Saying that I didn't make it >> large enough to begin with isn't the point. > > It is precisely the point... > > The fact is, there is nothing in there that *should* vary much (once > your system is fully installed) - unless you are using it in some > non-standard way, and/or not occasionally cleaning out /usr/src (as > Alan pointed out)... and if either of those is the case, then as I > said, it is your own fault that you needed to resize it. > > Don't you see how contradictory it is to say that you will change from > gentoo to distro-x because gentoo has made a change that requires you > to either merge /usr into / or use an 'init thingy', when distro-x, > that you say you will change to, USES AN INIT THINGY? Doesn't that > sound irrational to you? No, it doesn't. On Gentoo, I HAVE to make the thing but don't know how to fix it if it breaks. On other distros, I don't have to make the thing. If it fails, at worst, I can reinstall in much less time than I would spend trying to fix the silly thing. Since I don't know how to fix one and can't boot to get help, then the computer may as well be a screen door on a submarine. As I posted before, if something breaks and I can't fix it, I replace it with something else that works. That could be why /usr varies so much too. > > What would be logical and rational would be to either: > > a) learn how to use an init thingy (which from some more reading I've > been doing, doesn't look quite as bad as it seemed initially), or > > b) determine what is a sane size for /usr, make / an appropriate size > to subsume it, and merge it into /. > > Now, if you don't have enough room in / to merge it, then obviously it > will be more painful, but once it is done, you never have to worry > about it again - and no init thingy. Actually, history proves that wrong too. I started using LVM because I got tired of having to rearrange my partitions and resize things. That was the whole reason I switched to LVM when I did. Ask anyone on this list that has been here long ehough. I have had to move things around LOTS of times because things grow including /usr and /var. /home is a different and unrelated thing. Funny thing is, I did it several times and never even posted about it. > >> When people use LVM, the reason they use it is so that we can resize >> things when needed. > > Yes, and I use LVM - but again, this is only important for dirs/mnt > points that have the potential to consume more and more disk space... > that potential is simply not there for (a properly configured and > maintained) /usr... See above. > >> And what is rational for you, is not rational to me. Since you can >> dismiss mine, I can dismiss yours too. Funny how that works huh? > > Yep... and you can also dismiss my claim that jumping off that 1,000' > cliff won't result in you going splat, but it doesn't change the fact > that if you jump off of it, you WILL go splat. I just wouldn't get the > chance to say I told you so. > > And what you are saying is not changing anything either. I don't want to mess with the init thingy. If I do, first time it fails and a solution isn't obvious, time to move on to something else. I like my 16 year old washing machine and I have repaired things on it a few times. If it breaks and I can't fix it, time for a new washing machine. Most likely, a different brand and model too. Dale :-) :-) -- I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words!