From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FD0D1381F3 for ; Sun, 29 Sep 2013 23:08:50 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id F02E2E0B5F; Sun, 29 Sep 2013 23:08:41 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-ob0-f173.google.com (mail-ob0-f173.google.com [209.85.214.173]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EF7E5E0B4D for ; Sun, 29 Sep 2013 23:08:40 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-ob0-f173.google.com with SMTP id vb8so4568543obc.18 for ; Sun, 29 Sep 2013 16:08:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=/vPJ5nE/UYsPHX1DWscP00rpI6P1inD/6B8Prg4zY0k=; b=ITTr1hZz10PuDpPbNessS/4s9Jf0ZwIHY3eIeuIhATGNNqhHp3SZFlDLjqsZmQasEp EXrVcYrcG3KEibWFqbONBOG5+waGgGvnUxV54mkOfATaJsdoLxMzPQoborr//UGdEhN+ 3KIA5u1EQYPAeA470K+VMJg25AHqdQlpKvQXflTB1T/ZJWMW7BnC3GKjMePBak076gjf XUvmSr2cd3CJ2avaGQLIMJ8/CH5pMlCEagDo3MIfHT/dlZvs229WkpWGhYjMjvpGI8r2 Ji459MbDpySRavdxPdppb2dFyt6qSbLLuoxcWjBOtWZa5luUm5J3bJR35bjYuMAQgwc5 NYPA== X-Received: by 10.182.28.134 with SMTP id b6mr17273555obh.27.1380496120135; Sun, 29 Sep 2013 16:08:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.2.5] (adsl-98-95-149-129.jan.bellsouth.net. [98.95.149.129]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id d3sm33034009oek.5.1969.12.31.16.00.00 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Sun, 29 Sep 2013 16:08:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <5248B2F6.2020101@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2013 18:08:38 -0500 From: Dale User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/24.0 SeaMonkey/2.21 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] separate / and /usr to require initramfs 2013-11-01 References: <20130927222109.GD23408@server> <5246079E.7090406@gmail.com> <20130927223916.GE23408@server> <52460D42.2080109@gmail.com> <20130928003220.GF23408@server> <20130928160159.GA4247@linux1> <5247128D.3030801@gmail.com> <5248A2E0.80908@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.5.2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archives-Salt: 7a71469b-c18e-44eb-9689-dc0d5cd73237 X-Archives-Hash: 4fd93f6bd574c3fdca1f5c53ab8f47f6 Mark David Dumlao wrote: > On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 6:00 AM, Dale wrote: >> Mark David Dumlao wrote: >>> On Sun, Sep 29, 2013 at 1:31 AM, Dale wrote: >>>> One thing that you seem to be missing here. Before Gentoo, I used Mandrake. >>>> It had a init thingy. It caused me much grief and is one reason I left >>>> Mandrake. I also didn't like the upgrade process either but one reason I >>>> chose Gentoo is no init thingy. I wanted to be rid of that. Now, whether >>>> it is udev or not, here comes that stupid init thingy just because someone >>>> doesn't want to put files where they should be which is not inside /usr. >>>> >>>> So, given my history with the init thingy, if I do use a init thingy and it >>>> fails for whatever reason, I'll be installing something else. I done went >>>> down the road of trying to fix one of those stupid things and I have no plan >>>> or desire to do so again. I'm also not going to spend hours reinstalling >>>> Gentoo either. If, more than likely when, the init thingy fails, I'll be >>>> installing something else and I'll most my last sign off message here. One >>>> thing about Linux, there are plenty of distros to pick from . I love Gentoo >>>> but I like to be able to boot up without dealing with a init thingy that I >>>> have to fix when it goes belly up. >>>> >>>> Dale >>>> >>> I don't know why people keep humoring this kind of explanation for >>> systemd, udev, or /usr FUD, but this is not a rational way to think. It's >>> the same kind of excuse to say "I'm never going to use any kind of Linux, >>> even Android, because I tried it 3 or 4 times when it was on floppies, >>> and I couldn't get it to work". >>> >>> I'm really sorry about your terrible experience with "init thingies" in the >>> past, but you've got to face the facts: >>> 1) most distros today, Kubuntu included, bundle an "init thingy" >>> and it works flawlessly for them. >>> 2) you really, seriously, have to own up to the fact that your init thingy >>> failing was very likely your fault (because of 1) >>> 3) managing "init thingies" has gotten ridiculously easy over time as >>> compared to when you manually had to build them >>> >>> Especially that number 2 part. I mean, let's not forget that character >>> of Gentoo as a distribution. Or heck, even *nix distributions in general. >>> *nix distributions give you a lot of tools to arrange your systems the >>> way you want, i.e. choice, but it is always implicitly under the assumption >>> that the choice you're making is an *informed* choice. >>> >>> That's why you're asked to read the manual, or check the readmes, >>> or check the sample configs, and in this day and age, do a basic search >>> for working examples, before asking questions. *nix is not, and has >>> never been about being "polite" to users who don't know what they >>> are doing, and has always been about being efficient to users who do. >>> >>> I've been recommended to put it "over the top" bluntly before, so: >>> 1) STOP. FREAKING. BEING. IRRATIONAL. >>> 2) STOP BLAMING INIT THINGIES FOR YOUR MISTAKES. THE DAMNED >>> THINGS WORK. >>> 3) If you're scared of doing an init thingy *manually*, just read and do >>> the howto of the simplest init thingy manager in town (dracut? genkernel?). >>> It surely takes less time and effort than migrating to Kubuntu or whatever. >> Already tried making a init thingy from a really nice howto, Gentoo one >> I think. Failed big time. Heck, the init thingy barely even loaded >> before it failed. I seem to recall posting on here. As far as I know, >> no one knew how to fix it or what was wrong. The dracut one worked but >> if it ever failed, I'm in the same boat, no freaking clue how to fix it >> or where to start and if I can't boot, no help either. So just to >> update, my most recent experience wasn't to good either. It isn't all >> about YEARS ago. It is also about more recent attempts. > Meanwhile, for more stupidly over the top blunt trauma: > Please grow up and read your excuses for what they are. You > (1) failed to make an init thingy manually > (2) refuse to use a known working system that thousands use > on account of GREMLINS > and > (3) threaten to replace it with another working system that thousands use. > but no gremlins here! > > At the end of they day, you don't want to learn how to do it "the hard way". So > do it the easy way and be done with your troubles. If you don't want to do it > EITHER way fine, but stop pretending that it's anything else but a problem > with your attitude. You're being exactly the kind of user that unpaid > volunteer devs don't want to waste time having to support. And that is your opinon which is pretty much useless and wrong to boot. Dale :-) :-) -- I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words!