From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C53681381F3 for ; Sun, 29 Sep 2013 23:02:51 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 61225E0F67; Sun, 29 Sep 2013 23:02:41 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-bk0-f49.google.com (mail-bk0-f49.google.com [209.85.214.49]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 30054E0F21 for ; Sun, 29 Sep 2013 23:02:39 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-bk0-f49.google.com with SMTP id r7so1711898bkg.36 for ; Sun, 29 Sep 2013 16:02:38 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=IPEZ6SwZ9H3gEP5EcjArvs1yLWE18uMKHyY6FIMUBAk=; b=eSTJlhaY1oYd/igE0KGXYReOapHdTP9cVAqx0KPFNXzn6OcDD0ew8aMc2YAzMiQAO6 KWDDx/a17kY1dQ/AAf08lPzLL7P+iwaeC7VAJIHUh4PNQn+W1SvOwChmiw/znbjqlEjJ dbOsccBxjt6cOToyFOTxef5dgtmNOYlLeDmcVcqDqw3GERu9+reYw8S5GiOIgOEgrs5z L3Kiijk6McXewuVyHv/gDnFTphKcbu9XYlP6LOl4vI3F8r4UYwMqUvIYiYEBkFPkLOGY j1ThRpMqNPWj2elfQNB74fCAqb50+Y/ifOmbB6kSiYwbPoQZD0UFmAC9sFN0gzW2EazF cSdw== X-Received: by 10.204.121.201 with SMTP id i9mr16552995bkr.13.1380495758529; Sun, 29 Sep 2013 16:02:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.178.21] (p3E9E68D2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de. [62.158.104.210]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id pk7sm10552482bkb.2.1969.12.31.16.00.00 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Sun, 29 Sep 2013 16:02:37 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <5248B18D.1040800@googlemail.com> Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2013 01:02:37 +0200 From: Volker Armin Hemmann User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.0 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] separate / and /usr to require initramfs 2013-11-01 References: <20130927222109.GD23408@server> <5246079E.7090406@gmail.com> <20130927223916.GE23408@server> <52460D42.2080109@gmail.com> <20130928003220.GF23408@server> <20130928160159.GA4247@linux1> <20130928190441.GB11317@acm.acm> <20130928211702.46eda062@digimed.co.uk> <52486A5D.1020402@libertytrek.org> In-Reply-To: <52486A5D.1020402@libertytrek.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archives-Salt: 15b3c9c9-acb5-44e2-be02-0444ebf88c90 X-Archives-Hash: 3003396680617813027686bdfbe3aaa9 Am 29.09.2013 19:58, schrieb Tanstaafl: > On 2013-09-28 4:17 PM, Neil Bothwick wrote: >> On Sat, 28 Sep 2013 19:04:41 +0000, Alan Mackenzie wrote: >> >>>> I suppose that what I am about to say isn't really relevant, but it is >>>> unfortunate over the past year that people blamed udev specifically >>>> for this. It is true that it does things that don't work if /usr isn't >>>> mounted, but eudev does as well, since it is basically the same code. >>> >>> Who else is there to blame? We are continually being told that a >>> separate /usr is "broken", as though this were some unfortunate act of >>> , much like an earthquake. This gets >>> patronising really quickly. (Please note, I'm NOT blaming you here. I >>> appreciate that you're as much victim as Dale or me or anyone else >>> round here.) >> >> It's evolution. Linux has for years been moving in this direction, >> now it >> has reached the point where the Gentoo devs can no longer devote the >> increasing time needed to support what has now become an dge case. > > So the solution is to give users one MONTH to prepare? Why not 6 > months, or better, a year? What for gods sake is the rush??? one month to run genkernel is more than enough. And that this point was approaching was clear - what, 2 years ago? At least? > > Where are the links/pointers to the INTERNAL discussions of this > decision? I seriously want to know. If gentoo devs are not willing to > provide a 'paper trail' for how this decision was arrived at, and let > others judge their decisions based on the merits of their arguments, > then what does that say about their true motivations/intentions? marc.info --> gentoo-dev > > Again, I don't have a problem necessarily with what is being decided > (no separate /usr without an initramfs), my problem is with the > implementation - giving us one MONTH before we can expect possible > breakage with each and every update. No, you already can expect possible breakage with each and every update. In 4 weeks they will stop listening to your complains. > > The other HUGE thing that worries me, and has me seriously considering > switching to FreeBSD NOW, is, maybe there really is a secret, > underlying ulterior motive to force both systemd AND an initramfs for > everyone in ALL use cases. If that is the case, then say so now, and > give those of us who do not want this advanced notice, and I'll just > plan on setting my gentoo box to never update on Nov 1, and start > working on learning FreeBSD and if necessary, pay someone to help me > migrate services to it. so do it. You will be a lot happier there. I am sure. With forcing llvm etc....