From: Alan McKinnon <alan.mckinnon@gmail.com>
To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] separate / and /usr to require initramfs 2013-11-01
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2013 21:54:25 +0200 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <52488571.9070709@gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <524866AE.4060908@libertytrek.org>
On 29/09/2013 19:43, Tanstaafl wrote:
> On 2013-09-28 6:46 PM, Neil Bothwick <neil@digimed.co.uk> wrote:
>> Except you can never break Gentoo with a kernel update because, unlike
>> some other distros, installing a new kernel does not uninstall the
>> previous one. No matter how badly wrng a kernel update goes, you can
>> always hit reset then select the old one from the GRUB menu -
>> reinstallation doesn't come into it.
>
> My understanding is that this is not true, and that a USERLAND update
> (LVM2, which I use, among them) can cause breakage that will cause the
> CURRENT kernel+initramfs to no longer boot.
>
> Is my understanding flawed?
No, this can happen in theory. It's quite simple to describe in somewhat
abstract terms:
Imagine for example that LVM makes a backwards-incompatible change to
it's metadata. You are warned about this and take care to update your
kernel so that it can deal with the new metadata by including support
for both formats.
And you forget to update the initramfs. Reboot. Oops.
This is merely highly inconvenient, not the end of the world. Download a
very recent rescue disk on another computer and boot with that to effect
the repair. Then leave work and make your local publican's day whilst
you vent your fury yet again
Point is, this is not a situation unique to kernels, userlands and
initramfs. That kind of error can occur in so many different ways (eg
deploy a seriously broken linker and loader, or simply uninstall bash on
a RHEL4 host), it's just that when it happens in the circumstances you
ask about, it's one of the most inconvenient errors in a huge list.
This is why we sysadmins have jobs - we are supposed to have subtantial
clue and be able to predict and avoid such goofs.
> Totally side question: Anyone ever hear Linus' opinion of an initramfs
> being required to boot a system?
Never read it myself, but I'll hazard a guess:
He detests it with a passion calling it a grotesque hack, but tolerates
it because binary distros need it and no-one has come up with something
better (i.e. it sucks less)?
--
Alan McKinnon
alan.mckinnon@gmail.com
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2013-09-29 19:59 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 262+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2013-09-27 22:21 [gentoo-user] separate / and /usr to require initramfs 2013-11-01 Bruce Hill
2013-09-27 22:33 ` Dale
2013-09-27 22:39 ` Bruce Hill
2013-09-27 22:57 ` Dale
2013-09-27 23:10 ` Alan McKinnon
2013-09-27 23:47 ` Neil Bothwick
2013-09-28 0:39 ` David W Noon
2013-09-28 8:30 ` Mick
2013-09-28 8:42 ` Dale
2013-09-28 12:30 ` Bruce Hill
2013-09-28 12:49 ` David W Noon
2013-09-28 12:54 ` Bruce Hill
2013-09-29 14:20 ` Tanstaafl
2013-09-29 14:57 ` Bruce Hill
2013-09-29 17:24 ` Tanstaafl
2013-09-29 17:41 ` Canek Peláez Valdés
2013-09-29 18:02 ` Bruce Hill
2013-09-29 18:29 ` Tanstaafl
2013-09-28 11:32 ` Tanstaafl
2013-09-28 13:15 ` Michael Hampicke
2013-09-28 15:06 ` Dale
2013-09-28 16:54 ` Mick
2013-09-28 17:49 ` Michael Hampicke
2013-09-28 18:18 ` Dale
2013-09-28 22:46 ` Alan McKinnon
2013-09-29 14:49 ` Tanstaafl
2013-09-29 15:24 ` Dale
2013-09-29 17:37 ` Tanstaafl
2013-09-29 18:25 ` Dale
2013-09-29 18:45 ` Tanstaafl
2013-09-29 21:23 ` Walter Dnes
2013-09-29 21:32 ` Neil Bothwick
2013-09-29 21:33 ` Alan McKinnon
2013-09-29 23:05 ` Neil Bothwick
2013-09-29 21:35 ` Dale
2013-09-29 22:58 ` Tanstaafl
2013-09-29 23:27 ` Dale
2013-09-30 17:10 ` Volker Armin Hemmann
2013-09-30 17:25 ` Tanstaafl
2013-09-30 17:42 ` Volker Armin Hemmann
2013-09-30 19:10 ` Alan McKinnon
2013-09-30 20:47 ` Neil Bothwick
2013-10-01 3:36 ` Bruce Hill
2013-10-01 7:37 ` Neil Bothwick
2013-09-30 20:48 ` Dale
2013-09-30 21:04 ` Volker Armin Hemmann
2013-10-01 1:43 ` Dale
2013-09-29 23:19 ` Neil Bothwick
2013-09-29 23:34 ` Dale
2013-09-30 8:09 ` Joost Roeleveld
2013-09-29 18:45 ` Bruce Hill
2013-09-30 16:38 ` Dan Johansson
2013-09-30 18:09 ` Mark David Dumlao
2013-09-30 20:08 ` Dan Johansson
2013-09-30 20:50 ` Neil Bothwick
2013-09-29 15:41 ` Canek Peláez Valdés
2013-09-29 20:17 ` Alan McKinnon
2013-09-29 14:30 ` Tanstaafl
2013-09-28 14:04 ` Alan McKinnon
2013-09-28 18:11 ` Volker Armin Hemmann
2013-09-28 19:50 ` Neil Bothwick
2013-09-28 22:51 ` Alan McKinnon
2013-09-29 14:55 ` Tanstaafl
2013-09-29 17:55 ` Tanstaafl
2013-09-29 20:28 ` Alan McKinnon
2013-09-29 23:31 ` Daniel Campbell
2013-09-29 23:57 ` Neil Bothwick
2013-09-30 10:01 ` Hinnerk van Bruinehsen
2013-09-30 10:22 ` Neil Bothwick
2013-10-02 23:28 ` [gentoo-user] " Jonathan Callen
2013-09-30 9:31 ` [gentoo-user] " Alan McKinnon
2013-09-30 10:27 ` Daniel Campbell
2013-09-30 10:28 ` Alan McKinnon
2013-09-28 0:32 ` Bruce Hill
2013-09-28 16:01 ` William Hubbs
2013-09-28 17:31 ` Dale
2013-09-28 19:53 ` Neil Bothwick
2013-09-28 22:15 ` Dale
2013-09-28 22:46 ` Neil Bothwick
2013-09-28 23:09 ` Dale
2013-09-29 5:29 ` Walter Dnes
2013-09-29 8:25 ` Mick
2013-09-29 8:28 ` Alan McKinnon
2013-09-29 10:55 ` Volker Armin Hemmann
2013-09-29 11:03 ` Greg Woodbury
2013-09-29 11:58 ` Volker Armin Hemmann
2013-09-29 15:12 ` Flexibility and robustness in the Linux organisim (was: [gentoo-user] separate / and /usr to require initramfs 2013-11-01) Greg Woodbury
2013-09-29 15:22 ` Alon Bar-Lev
2013-09-29 16:03 ` [gentoo-user] Re: Flexibility and robustness in the Linux organisim Volker Armin Hemmann
2013-09-29 16:33 ` Dale
2013-09-29 19:42 ` Alan McKinnon
2013-09-29 21:41 ` Dale
2013-09-29 22:04 ` Alan McKinnon
2013-09-30 6:31 ` pk
2013-09-30 7:32 ` Alan McKinnon
2013-09-30 19:40 ` pk
2013-09-30 21:05 ` Walter Dnes
2013-09-30 22:37 ` Neil Bothwick
2013-10-11 8:16 ` [gentoo-user] " Steven J. Long
2013-10-11 8:44 ` Neil Bothwick
2013-10-11 14:44 ` Mark David Dumlao
2013-10-01 19:22 ` [gentoo-user] " Mark David Dumlao
2013-10-01 19:28 ` Mark David Dumlao
2013-10-11 7:54 ` [gentoo-user] " Steven J. Long
2013-10-11 7:50 ` Alan McKinnon
2013-10-11 11:22 ` [gentoo-user] " Steven J. Long
2013-09-29 16:41 ` [gentoo-user] " Francisco Blas Izquierdo Riera (klondike)
2013-09-29 22:47 ` Volker Armin Hemmann
2013-09-30 23:21 ` Francisco Blas Izquierdo Riera (klondike)
2013-10-01 5:11 ` Mark David Dumlao
2013-10-01 5:14 ` Mark David Dumlao
2013-10-01 16:35 ` Volker Armin Hemmann
2013-10-11 8:28 ` [gentoo-user] " Steven J. Long
2013-10-11 15:50 ` Volker Armin Hemmann
2013-09-29 17:54 ` [gentoo-user] " Tanstaafl
2013-09-29 19:30 ` [gentoo-user] separate / and /usr to require initramfs 2013-11-01 Alan McKinnon
2013-10-08 0:03 ` [gentoo-user] " walt
2013-10-08 18:11 ` Volker Armin Hemmann
2013-10-09 4:16 ` William Hubbs
2013-10-10 0:24 ` walt
2013-10-10 14:46 ` William Hubbs
2013-10-10 15:29 ` Volker Armin Hemmann
2013-10-11 6:59 ` Nicolas Sebrecht
2013-09-29 18:46 ` [gentoo-user] " Neil Bothwick
2013-10-02 16:58 ` the
2013-09-29 19:16 ` Alan McKinnon
2013-09-30 2:23 ` [gentoo-user] " »Q«
2013-09-29 18:41 ` [gentoo-user] " Neil Bothwick
2013-09-29 21:48 ` Dale
2013-09-29 23:12 ` Neil Bothwick
2013-09-29 17:43 ` Tanstaafl
2013-09-29 18:53 ` Neil Bothwick
2013-09-29 19:54 ` Alan McKinnon [this message]
2013-09-29 20:20 ` Mark David Dumlao
2013-09-29 22:00 ` Dale
2013-09-29 22:31 ` Mark David Dumlao
2013-09-29 23:08 ` Dale
2013-09-30 7:35 ` Alan McKinnon
2013-09-30 9:27 ` Dale
2013-09-29 23:40 ` Daniel Campbell
2013-09-30 7:39 ` Alan McKinnon
2013-09-28 19:04 ` Alan Mackenzie
2013-09-28 20:17 ` Neil Bothwick
2013-09-28 21:09 ` Alan Mackenzie
2013-09-28 22:37 ` Neil Bothwick
2013-09-29 4:48 ` Greg Woodbury
2013-09-29 5:08 ` Bruce Hill
2013-09-29 8:43 ` Dale
2013-09-29 12:07 ` Alan Mackenzie
2013-09-29 16:10 ` Volker Armin Hemmann
2013-09-29 22:06 ` Walter Dnes
2013-09-29 23:00 ` Volker Armin Hemmann
2013-09-30 4:14 ` Walter Dnes
2013-09-30 4:21 ` Mark David Dumlao
2013-09-30 4:36 ` Canek Peláez Valdés
2013-09-30 9:25 ` Walter Dnes
2013-09-30 8:01 ` Alan McKinnon
2013-09-30 10:32 ` Joost Roeleveld
2013-09-30 10:41 ` Alan McKinnon
2013-09-30 8:19 ` Neil Bothwick
2013-09-29 23:24 ` Neil Bothwick
2013-09-29 17:55 ` Tanstaafl
2013-09-29 18:30 ` Neil Bothwick
2013-09-28 22:24 ` Dale
2013-09-29 17:58 ` Tanstaafl
2013-09-29 18:21 ` Canek Peláez Valdés
2013-09-29 18:32 ` Tanstaafl
2013-09-29 19:11 ` William Hubbs
2013-09-29 19:34 ` Canek Peláez Valdés
2013-09-29 19:41 ` Alon Bar-Lev
2013-09-29 23:02 ` Volker Armin Hemmann
2013-09-29 23:52 ` Greg Woodbury
2013-09-30 0:02 ` Neil Bothwick
2013-10-11 8:36 ` [gentoo-user] " Steven J. Long
2013-10-11 8:42 ` Neil Bothwick
2013-10-11 11:27 ` [gentoo-user] " Steven J. Long
2013-10-11 11:55 ` Neil Bothwick
2013-10-11 13:11 ` Peter Humphrey
2013-10-11 13:58 ` Neil Bothwick
2013-10-12 2:21 ` [gentoo-user] " walt
2013-10-12 5:06 ` Daniel Campbell
2013-10-12 8:11 ` Neil Bothwick
2013-09-29 14:53 ` [gentoo-user] " Tanstaafl
2013-09-29 15:39 ` Dale
2013-09-30 4:55 ` [gentoo-user] " »Q«
2013-09-30 9:24 ` Dale
2013-09-29 18:36 ` [gentoo-user] " Neil Bothwick
2013-09-30 10:16 ` Joost Roeleveld
2013-09-30 10:24 ` Neil Bothwick
2013-09-30 10:35 ` Joost Roeleveld
2013-09-29 17:59 ` Tanstaafl
2013-09-29 20:09 ` Alan McKinnon
2013-09-29 20:35 ` Tanstaafl
2013-09-30 10:20 ` Joost Roeleveld
2013-09-28 20:43 ` [gentoo-user] " Nikos Chantziaras
2013-09-28 20:58 ` Alon Bar-Lev
2013-09-28 22:36 ` Alan McKinnon
2013-09-28 23:23 ` Volker Armin Hemmann
2013-09-28 23:31 ` pk
2013-09-29 0:01 ` Dale
2013-09-29 0:10 ` Alan McKinnon
2013-09-29 0:33 ` pk
2013-09-29 4:05 ` Bruce Hill
2013-09-29 10:59 ` Volker Armin Hemmann
2013-09-29 15:24 ` pk
2013-09-29 16:11 ` Volker Armin Hemmann
2013-09-29 16:36 ` Dale
2013-09-29 17:05 ` pk
2013-09-29 0:08 ` Alan McKinnon
2013-09-29 10:59 ` Volker Armin Hemmann
2013-09-29 6:06 ` Walter Dnes
2013-09-29 9:30 ` pk
2013-09-29 10:21 ` Neil Bothwick
2013-09-29 17:55 ` Tanstaafl
2013-09-29 18:55 ` William Hubbs
2013-09-29 19:09 ` Tanstaafl
2013-10-09 13:39 ` gottlieb
2013-09-29 20:39 ` Alan McKinnon
2013-09-29 20:51 ` Tanstaafl
2013-09-29 21:15 ` Alan McKinnon
2013-09-29 22:53 ` Tanstaafl
2013-09-29 23:09 ` Volker Armin Hemmann
2013-09-30 9:00 ` Alan McKinnon
2013-09-30 17:25 ` Volker Armin Hemmann
2013-09-30 19:14 ` Alan McKinnon
2013-09-30 22:05 ` Mick
2013-09-30 22:39 ` Neil Bothwick
2013-10-01 12:35 ` PORTDIR default - changing PORTDIR variable - WAS " Tanstaafl
2013-10-01 12:46 ` Alan McKinnon
2013-10-01 13:52 ` Tanstaafl
2013-10-01 14:11 ` Alan McKinnon
2013-10-01 14:57 ` Neil Bothwick
2013-10-01 14:17 ` Neil Bothwick
2013-10-01 13:13 ` Dragostin Yanev
2013-10-01 14:14 ` Michael Orlitzky
2013-10-01 18:15 ` Tanstaafl
2013-10-01 18:48 ` Neil Bothwick
2013-10-01 21:24 ` Alan McKinnon
2013-10-01 22:51 ` Greg Turner
2013-10-01 23:41 ` Neil Bothwick
2013-10-02 12:23 ` Tanstaafl
2013-10-02 15:31 ` Neil Bothwick
2013-10-02 18:24 ` Tanstaafl
2013-10-02 20:21 ` Tanstaafl
2013-12-04 15:05 ` [gentoo-user] Re: PORTDIR default - changing PORTDIR variable Tanstaafl
2013-12-04 21:43 ` Tanstaafl
2013-12-04 22:44 ` Neil Bothwick
2013-12-05 11:47 ` Tanstaafl
2013-10-03 5:48 ` PORTDIR default - changing PORTDIR variable - WAS Re: [gentoo-user] Re: separate / and /usr to require initramfs 2013-11-01 joost
2013-10-03 8:11 ` Neil Bothwick
2013-10-02 12:04 ` Tanstaafl
2013-10-02 12:12 ` Neil Bothwick
2013-10-02 12:29 ` Alan McKinnon
2013-10-02 12:28 ` Alan McKinnon
2013-10-02 12:53 ` Tanstaafl
2013-10-02 15:47 ` Alan McKinnon
2013-10-02 16:39 ` Neil Bothwick
2013-10-03 9:00 ` Yuri K. Shatroff
2013-10-03 12:09 ` Volker Armin Hemmann
2013-10-02 8:03 ` [gentoo-user] Re: PORTDIR default - changing PORTDIR variable Thanasis
2013-09-30 0:28 ` [gentoo-user] Re: separate / and /usr to require initramfs 2013-11-01 Daniel Campbell
[not found] <lWOHU-5Kr-7@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] ` <lWORA-5Tq-5@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] ` <lWORA-5Tq-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] ` <lWPaW-6bL-11@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] ` <lWQJH-8d1-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] ` <lX5fI-13Z-29@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] ` <lXtBo-6G5-29@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] ` <lXvDc-IX-5@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] ` <lXvWy-11o-15@gated-at.bofh.it>
2013-10-06 22:02 ` [gentoo-user] " Gregory Shearman
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