From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92B3E1381F3 for ; Sun, 29 Sep 2013 08:43:50 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 154D1E0DE0; Sun, 29 Sep 2013 08:43:43 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-oa0-f48.google.com (mail-oa0-f48.google.com [209.85.219.48]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0C3DCE0DC5 for ; Sun, 29 Sep 2013 08:43:41 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-oa0-f48.google.com with SMTP id m6so3148708oag.21 for ; Sun, 29 Sep 2013 01:43:41 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=46Qg0/ZeNdVx8IlaMz03XoxxBNe26a1aKqzpAipcOkc=; b=RxeF+siECC0B2Lzf+I9va8Sd855aCPUOaULxhyDgm5eBsrg2hMYAp3vqGkx9CX1fyu RCDdmHHfMPD5oQFh/h9hpQo4gdcEvEg1s4+u1zc2rq1fQsGfxj1pJ3dsHNodjB4KhfGs q5cR2KmL5iAJRkLsslSGaTtc3f2O42BSZz35Tirx2+LxaoiRH6IhD0tZclfMLGxg8NB6 c+LmIO0U0LpuoGC5bTfYby6VQJl9+CaPabd69i+uPIdA9Cp8F3IqJISkJlHQvsjgC+va HYlG5J1QT1kPTJqJQy2I89QGO0E7mnfBx8RxrMw68kKFaW92qJ/PHY1Z9OnjulQu5C9J 6Jbg== X-Received: by 10.60.51.196 with SMTP id m4mr14131049oeo.1.1380444221192; Sun, 29 Sep 2013 01:43:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.2.5] (adsl-98-95-149-129.jan.bellsouth.net. [98.95.149.129]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id r6sm22048432obi.14.1969.12.31.16.00.00 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Sun, 29 Sep 2013 01:43:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <5247E83B.9020009@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2013 03:43:39 -0500 From: Dale User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/24.0 SeaMonkey/2.21 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] separate / and /usr to require initramfs 2013-11-01 References: <5246079E.7090406@gmail.com> <20130927223916.GE23408@server> <52460D42.2080109@gmail.com> <20130928003220.GF23408@server> <20130928160159.GA4247@linux1> <20130928190441.GB11317@acm.acm> <20130928211702.46eda062@digimed.co.uk> <20130928210938.GD11317@acm.acm> <20130928233750.55b2683a@digimed.co.uk> <5247B10B.4060607@gmail.com> <20130929050823.GJ23408@server> In-Reply-To: <20130929050823.GJ23408@server> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.5.2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archives-Salt: 780bcf44-1646-489a-812c-f2c72f404154 X-Archives-Hash: 39f6fa59f727a94711a55d2fc05d47a4 Bruce Hill wrote: > On Sun, Sep 29, 2013 at 12:48:11AM -0400, Greg Woodbury wrote: >> To answer Alan's question - the main fault lies on the GNOME project and >> the forcing for systemd down user's systems throats. >> >> Additionally, as certina things were added to Linux to "enhance" >> capabilities, the GNOME developers (apparently) *deliberately* placed >> the programs in /usr/bin, instead of in the generally accepted place of >> /bin. >> >> Alan is correct - there is a deliberate cause of this debacle. Certain >> folks (Lennart being one of many) *are* cramming their vision of Linux >> on the whole community. >> >> I have read severl folks defending their ignoring of the old protocol of >> placing boot-required programs in /bin (and hence on root) as being >> holdovers from "ancient history" and claiming that disk space is so >> cheap these days that it "isn't necessary" to keep this distinction. >> >> As a result of the GNOMEish forcing, some distros have even gone so far >> as to *do away* with /bin - and have placed everything in /usr/bin with >> compatibility symlinks as a holdover/workaround. >> >> I lay this at the feet of GNOME, and thus, at the feet of RedHat. >> >> Linux used to be about *choice* aand leaving up to the users/admins >> about how they wanted to configure their systems. But certain forces in >> the Linux marketplace are hell-bent on imitating Microsoft's "one way to >> do it" thinking that they are outdoing the "evil empire's" evilness. >> >> I fully understand systemd and see that it is a solution seeking a >> problem to solve. And its developers, being nearly identical with the >> set of GNOME developers, are forcing this *thing* on the Linux universe. >> >> Certainly, the SystemV init system needed to have a way of >> *automagically/automatically* handling a wider set of dependencies. When >> we wrote if for System IV at Bell Labs in 1981 or so, we didn't have the >> time to solve the problem of having the computer handle the dependencies >> and moved the handling out to the human mind to solve by setting the >> numerical sequence numbers. (I was one of the writers for System IV >> init while a contractor.) >> >> OpenRC provided a highly compatible and organic extension of the system, >> and Gentoo has been happy for severl years with it. But now, the same >> folks who are thrusting GNOME/systemd down the throats of systems >> everywhere, have invaded or gained converts enought in the Gentoo >> structure to try and force their way on Gentoo. >> >> Gentoo may be flexible enough to allow someone to write an overlay that >> moves the necessary things back to /bin (and install symlinks from >> /usr/bin to /bin) so that an initrd/initramfs is not required. But I >> suspect that Gentoo and many distributions are too far gone down the >> path of deception to recover. >> >> Neil and other may disagree with this assessment, but I saw it coming >> and this is not the first time it has been pointed out - and not just by me. >> >> Who knows though? I may just have to abandon prepared distributions >> completely and do a Linux From Scratch solution, or fork some distro and >> tey to undo the worst of the damage. >> >> -- >> G.Wolfe Woodbury >> redwolfe@gmail.com > And that, folks, is the best and most accurate summary I've read to date. > > Thank you, sir, for stepping up to the plate. > > A friend of mine has his own Linux distro (has for a long time), and explained > this to me some time ago. He's not effected by this. > > Bruce Name that distro please. ;-) Dale :-) :-) -- I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words!