From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 042C71381F3 for ; Mon, 19 Aug 2013 13:15:40 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 97D3DE0D03; Mon, 19 Aug 2013 13:15:29 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-ea0-f171.google.com (mail-ea0-f171.google.com [209.85.215.171]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6E9E8E09E4 for ; Mon, 19 Aug 2013 13:15:28 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-ea0-f171.google.com with SMTP id n15so2276411ead.16 for ; Mon, 19 Aug 2013 06:15:27 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=21YzjUvXhSyAr4ZnENvJmzbJf0o3aDPrY8akeYojHO0=; b=bHqU7W15H+eC3aqlxJhSEVqR9nwZ5aO8SMia825DZA6aYzBg1YWXVTXF0ilalZgSPs ZizUPRWKgSpU73Yk9341zr4opY2tFNyYrcAbLnV8FfAN4KPRgyYspg2anntYJfFQmQ5K gUOUUigYxAEyVV+alwY1A1Z7Re/zSBKf1wQcvNth/WfTx4E0GykRLeArpsFGWREb/y6B oFc0zMYCIifUMr6uLHAk0zzODEpCarf/2c9ShNV6hws49UTHtHEy6ME4MejUm0OoUZtC Dx/e5gD2sbEV1BS85Ixqzpt7Rc0CTeeXbe7wcBPL7XEI/QnbGk/YVjMDiSirWTcQ4ukt xB5A== X-Received: by 10.15.35.196 with SMTP id g44mr22734036eev.18.1376918127025; Mon, 19 Aug 2013 06:15:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.1.20.201] (dustpuppy.is.co.za. [196.14.169.11]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id d8sm17396767eeh.8.1969.12.31.16.00.00 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 19 Aug 2013 06:15:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <5212199F.8070000@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2013 15:11:59 +0200 From: Alan McKinnon User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130809 Thunderbird/17.0.8 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Optional /usr merge in Gentoo References: <5211226F.2000000@libertytrek.org> <201308182208.43780.michaelkintzios@gmail.com> <521142A7.1020702@coolmail.se> <52119410.9050202@sporkbox.us> <5211BCB0.1060106@gmail.com> <52120BEE.1070000@coolmail.se> In-Reply-To: <52120BEE.1070000@coolmail.se> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archives-Salt: 154d08df-acd6-43e2-96b6-d41a8c3554b7 X-Archives-Hash: 4f18ce2dca431c1e2d6bac7f810d340b On 19/08/2013 14:13, pk wrote: >> sysvinit, like X11, needs a massive overhaul and a sprint clean. > Yes, an overhaul is always welcome. But most people criticising these > systems (and other systems) just say that they are bad without pointing > out what is bad. How can you fix something without knowing what's bad? > To me the problem with sysvinit (and X11) seems mostly to be a > philosophical one. Some people say: "this doesn't work the way I want it > to - therefore it's crap!". While others (like me) say: "I have no > problem with this - it works fine!". I find sysvinit to be unwieldy and clunky. Perhaps not so much the code itself, but surely the interface it presents to me the sysadmin. All that rc.[0-6] nonsense - what's that all about? In all my days I have never seen a computer running *nix that wasn't fully satisfied with two exclusive running states: - normal operation (whether console, headless, X) - maintenance mode (busybox on console). So why do I have 6 of them? The runlevels themselves are fixed and rigid. I want them somewhat more flexible, I actually don't want a bluetooth daemon *running*all*the*time* - really, it should only start when I enable bluetooth. This may not be the best analogy but you get the point, the OS needs to react to changes in the environment and sometimes those reactions are best dealt with by the service manager. OpenRC to my mind made huge strides in dragging this into modern times by making runlevels declarative. It all make so much sense in Gentoo. As for the bulk of the code, I don't have issue with that. PID=1 does what it needs to do. I suppose I can sum up the changed environment in one word: hotplug X11, well that's another story and probably way off topic. It was designed for hardware and architectures that haven't existed for 20+ years. Almost all factors that made X11 awesome in the 80s and 90s simply are not there anymore. -- Alan McKinnon alan.mckinnon@gmail.com