From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BEF151382C5 for ; Tue, 23 Jun 2020 17:26:51 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 269EAE08DB; Tue, 23 Jun 2020 17:26:47 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-ot1-x32d.google.com (mail-ot1-x32d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::32d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9B7EAE089C for ; Tue, 23 Jun 2020 17:26:46 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-ot1-x32d.google.com with SMTP id 72so3880683otc.3 for ; Tue, 23 Jun 2020 10:26:46 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:references:from:openpgp:autocrypt:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to; bh=2EQF7eU8RB+aY0SR+o1q1jnWPUQ6OPjfd/SDq+MPV+k=; b=kG5WIgmydlChqEPMwgnxU+tXeusvWVo6gERQmTix3fLXV1CcxbSEaKSwiOyP1rVdNq vzaxqh8mdTslHZs2+Rp48yWqHW3VTrrMMnRUQVEeYfv60zldTh9oceQ5eS89LnPWMlP4 Duy3RJXaNiEVDwRTqq0Vm6KrC2yZU0PT25fmj5Z7WFga8b2wQuh9YItiYcxjRm7x9rhd zYzhUKHRbyWVCqOVhWfO63t3WZ5ODmec1rRWUd0WKUJjWqNliHWHhsxtKxywkQeRvUd/ pMXegKWM/wDsPQFkfBQmZ8w9tXh7wGmZQ5/Y48qLk8a+b/B/p0KcYaPcUqTuxyt0WwAk Sfpg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:openpgp:autocrypt :message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to; bh=2EQF7eU8RB+aY0SR+o1q1jnWPUQ6OPjfd/SDq+MPV+k=; b=b5NPXQpis6yHFLTaDLi3kXlpPw60HuCVDmjQlg9rZhCJTY8aMreomYlUs35CEo/za0 psXUE8WqnbGKXUIloxUgBJiV6GErtaZ8G3EMi/ftDjjfKSGivntarLU3VhwnqHCEtvaY j6Hxr068HEQZJUwjvCe4NgpbFr1ZGaJGRmL5R49salVZnIdru5mrE9Q2c9iK0gc62nA5 ESC13ELpOHNMMNT0OEW+c9TqZzN2gLT2031eGYPuQr2dPrVHapCjp1dJ+BP3xktfTMS7 dhHijXzfEfxMTB5RExNs8gGORmSQ55Bb5NZsHXdSvCvMvbQMh0j0iilt9Z/yCqHDZhQQ 1x/g== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533a0gaDFM3DvKEHWSUyrTkvxrANMOxeizSdSbRQ61a4Xa4/kxXS Hh3+iSmN2kHtFQwVRjB8LWoPh7JO X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJy6Oe4hnanru1v8UmFwx+lbhPL2rBcjC1k1pkGGDAR4jO6AAfN0MCztzRSX9N+4BgkgcmcQFw== X-Received: by 2002:a9d:7852:: with SMTP id c18mr18957740otm.82.1592933205776; Tue, 23 Jun 2020 10:26:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.0.100] (adsl-074-188-241-018.sip.asm.bellsouth.net. [74.188.241.18]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 10sm4161100otq.52.2020.06.23.10.26.44 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 23 Jun 2020 10:26:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Testing a used hard drive to make SURE it is good. To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org References: <6d77acb3-5754-06cb-b8ef-2f1a5d7d8084@gmail.com> <20200615231836.xje3kkkihsxrvhaz@grusum.endjinn.de> <158351d5-27cc-88d0-951c-893d0b5ad8aa@gmail.com> <1be400f1-9f5f-4e4a-ba8d-0fb7f8609a14@www.fastmail.com> From: Dale Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=rdalek1967@gmail.com; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQINBFxc7MgBEAC+zrgEdqJJiDe/UDAB+ScmferXWfJTVjbVT2T4DQ7jiLrgP9aNUo1HioNF mrU3JPOCR32gvZyTbY1+niO5+VSo/+pSqQ785h6ZDj1klMkrg6tEzGnf2MNBpBj4houZwxQ+ WDKKTg2M9F+lv8wTIdR/JQn+hSviktLMtrghQlyLhpapsLXWLA6gMFebpQYwxUwemvan8ddX lQvJe9FGyFYvBi0dp1gl10F2O+DVZJxvX8xkX+yImVlhVJiC31gXHRcj+Qlo7gprlU7TIieF Uow6/ZvYKJ26pztVdFCg5w0rMJkF/x8Zd4A6wnuptiAPmWaQ1+YKgYDonbDUgwqFSx5/lN5z DGZ4LlioxeUTTPVvZsqBIeDz6jNFA583OYbo1/S26dqrvTFf2DKlsvoDpVfAhNlwJPjoixs0 X3FNqPv+M10n4kq5Iz7Q9E3O4s/nfFIYGocEslVka7zZPkXSaHbsn+KJlY8XV6qxtCEdh0/V XX1+1aU2J74M0JikWhpwxTZ1dP5aOyWSPPEgFFIRW6xwwC02SoRH9a7mggfGYp/YjPlONNaT SCL8sgRfvmq3D0XTbLyTjSbExxkfKDmbePQagawDE3TlI/oivHf1JaAcbwMb3LZuU4TGcOIl 5D+x7q0MUIeCop0ZFOwAnqW3AVVNvsBkv2KN+IHJryWAf0/iMQARAQABtBtEYWxlIDxyZGFs ZWsxOTY3QGdtYWlsLmNvbT6JAk4EEwEIADgWIQTZ7suruPBaS60bCYXvEM/XWu+ZnAUCXFzs yAIbIwULCQgHAgYVCgkICwIEFgIDAQIeAQIXgAAKCRDvEM/XWu+ZnN+7D/4/1dNG4aCz0+v+ 0dcjV5tY1feYEWCdHKyDzxWBxlCpd/0NPRQeNY4VMjbCl/sq7GkXi/c2SbfWDQ5BQRkkExG1 pSwuXSIehGok/4fpTi3HDAguRvzdCqlKPt7me05FyiC/WnpY5GOlJ3ruGw2qABv/RmV2q5b/ tkq7h1y1f16DTNr3/nsj8HzHcrHdXdL4kaYChSOe/dbQR9Stqak7eMyR+iwvrJMNF/CGl70P 2x5ybsXMDzRVOqNcpa5ZdhEMTVh6+vC1SOmm1BFMF8XCqBEvBbcHWDQmGYTdNCsS/ADm8CBl gvjJgLdIsAzoMu4WHQDFnzXAoArqFWgAf53isOS4AWrv29tF9b8Aa1vb7h5JEa+ArcMsA6Gl X38+GY6WXXaxKI9n3PTCWu9tPGnRh7mABjnwEosDDqmzw8aTAYECb3avDuGY2rmcjgh4H6RE w08d63j1T4d5J9wlm4TGtW/VHgbUFkATEdH3Acl/EjFiyqTiX7p8kU6Reu5enIkogA93xoQh Rmy7ZiST/5LN+ZkaOdyjIw0L+5KalslN9SKt809YxgJ6kPo657LNTFPiFvFA46/SEWcBYrzq Xk0wEW0gBRWf+BqN0qRhU0/EQ+QfRdLLFg2xtUePwlheYLXxfyDLrdCCOLWYpkzbjCZHLS4u 69smbvR9S9KBDNzJybxEWrkCDQRcXOzIARAA5IGRWTqaM44IJgBYghZg2fGj0Am7KWPhE7V7 T/EEe7vVSUEFqHtlHzI4ZK6Q0AZ9uAEjE8IJIQ7KoTjzNqAtabP0vp3s0szgtJlsZ+8vGKlQ my7fvzSrdoQL0Xn7CEwJYFXJ1EMUcYIQeoHG1cUAaXx73k9BFbjwjnUeMrqlV/ZovQlg7duW nESfQ7HZu5NrtYyY3jPMUouxiO9WQPh+IHxZbt1absF2VcvRAymD32RxGvMPbw6ChMRD/p9O 4PH7M5rXaxr78NXQX9E48vrI00f1cYb9NSN1HnSV8cW3jKObVjdBk6jPQwrMvdpgdQhUB9aZ HS/9mC9mmAgiXKyCpzXe7FPB6QznSfn4GIaC/luy1e6SLUkJhRK/niB+gq+Mfxg2zXNuDUTI cMGmpDCp3kgUoorkaltk8RW09io95BkXrGhcDNuSGZfAParBc7RXyYpbIcax8St7tEAd2oFh 4seYOPUlzuhGrPpqR/91wrFc4E1260GKauSr4UhMJv6tygBwyC0mmBMKi+ZXw6ZdZxA5fg7y 35P3TILjznCXXTDgRHq9A3NknKRMcgFacX6eIhANkMFo6oJVjuEgy1dvu1wFfDq7c+i8GAHu L4pYzyXYu6PporlNNU0xSwdVgzM/uuK0lt+UxCimgC+YR3IezgDcbfudb7h9dGIwL+bbPL0A EQEAAYkCNgQYAQgAIBYhBNnuy6u48FpLrRsJhe8Qz9da75mcBQJcXOzIAhsMAAoJEO8Qz9da 75mcXZ4P/1YXgWDZek7mhzrf6uaQzMxa92P89HeWz4PlgB/32symeEFAV04WazzBZffI8AYY rGA1Xmu/2VaB9+FOODyKhUWBc2UL0NRWBk6POwboyTdKlclmpixaN9zLcBt0YLejoRfN1B/5 aQf9/lUDZMnAiCyz0FgeqEMUshldmwWC35RqnjrCbbuk2vIqSH6BLDIXU6jQrLHE1DF0ai41 wLtQFAFXPhn45n0ZwYhVs4Z32z4sjXrIvgBgCaXa4HM+L1Klne0KiNM8ReFTTpTE0SgyDOSZ O3MOa2n77i6JbVtsbiFYnNeP3J9S/l3jevGpZEtNQOKrIm1MW8jGuHWtsDeMkT/mCcSodlkt PxIo+mMK9GpGvG2hW80LiohqNfUbNwAmr3blOYY4URPXPRnEnPs4pmTmL5owjw2dkg145i9I D42Tq+XZ6YtWt3SGzGbAYow6XwTwZ5NFAzV9UQuCGrDw4KWan6O6Z+VIYWsn0UMZlu1Obxna aocofkaUCbISK26kImuD1aA8juSHC18Qv1xUage6/UakbSxyDtACqt6hOVFKX3IA59ApdNRT +2x3iCmlvF9MJsGgFq6IpqL+Fk7iWV8Kjbz0wQOId6N9+JdQh3LrLaS7a1PowUm1z9DK5/O0 Yg+gpDnEOOFI7WM5u7a7FSM2Z/LXGVwel/0eWvLk9tN6 Message-ID: <51f37de0-c955-c114-56bd-672a9e064e24@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2020 12:26:43 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/60.0 SeaMonkey/2.53.2 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org X-Auto-Response-Suppress: DR, RN, NRN, OOF, AutoReply MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <1be400f1-9f5f-4e4a-ba8d-0fb7f8609a14@www.fastmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------A4FEE04BC50569EB46D61FB7" X-Archives-Salt: afb01514-ffaa-429b-8702-04f0099b8b18 X-Archives-Hash: d732a4767fa26c12c1968456892f59ca This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------A4FEE04BC50569EB46D61FB7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sid Spry wrote: > On Tue, Jun 23, 2020, at 11:38 AM, Grant Edwards wrote: >> Which is better than not knowing until the drive is failed and >> offline. :) >> > But redundant if the drive degration is obvious. In two cases I > can think of drives only reported SMART will-fail after the drives > had hard failed. In the other cases performance was so degraded > it was obvious it was the drive. > > I've had two hard drive failures that SMART warned me about.  If not for SMART I wouldn't have noticed the drives having issues until much later.  Maybe even after losing a lot of data.  In both of those cases, I lost no data at all.  I was able to recover everything off the drive.  SMART can't predict the future so it can only monitor for the things it can see.  If say a spindle bearing is about to lock up suddenly, SMART most likely can't detect that since it is a hardware failure that can't really be predicted.  We may be able to hear a strange sound if we lucky but if it happens suddenly, it may not even do that.  While SMART can't predict all points of failures, it can detect a lot of them.  Even if the two drives I had failed with no warning from SMART, I'd still run it and monitor it.  Using SMART can warn you in certain situations.  If a person doesn't run SMART, they will miss those warnings.  SMART isn't perfect but it is better than not having it all.  Dale :-)  :-)  --------------A4FEE04BC50569EB46D61FB7 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Sid Spry wrote:
On Tue, Jun 23, 2020, at 11:38 AM, Grant Edwards wrote:

Which is better than not knowing until the drive is failed and
offline. :)


But redundant if the drive degration is obvious. In two cases I
can think of drives only reported SMART will-fail after the drives
had hard failed. In the other cases performance was so degraded
it was obvious it was the drive.


I've had two hard drive failures that SMART warned me about.  If not for SMART I wouldn't have noticed the drives having issues until much later.  Maybe even after losing a lot of data.  In both of those cases, I lost no data at all.  I was able to recover everything off the drive. 

SMART can't predict the future so it can only monitor for the things it can see.  If say a spindle bearing is about to lock up suddenly, SMART most likely can't detect that since it is a hardware failure that can't really be predicted.  We may be able to hear a strange sound if we lucky but if it happens suddenly, it may not even do that.  While SMART can't predict all points of failures, it can detect a lot of them.  Even if the two drives I had failed with no warning from SMART, I'd still run it and monitor it.  Using SMART can warn you in certain situations.  If a person doesn't run SMART, they will miss those warnings. 

SMART isn't perfect but it is better than not having it all. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 
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