From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D00A1381F3 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2013 19:31:03 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id B4921E0AD4; Wed, 31 Jul 2013 19:30:54 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-ea0-f182.google.com (mail-ea0-f182.google.com [209.85.215.182]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8BD0AE0A91 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2013 19:30:53 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-ea0-f182.google.com with SMTP id o10so557112eaj.27 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2013 12:30:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=9R+A+mBL7waQeRmHsLaYZgbxtuZcpJEsYZECbiDXVHg=; b=xV8fStVHf3n5MRVgYJutpD9zcXOsmkIhVhHhbKuEXj3dj4uGijT+1LtdQgHLK6ssrS dzhjiw95lYYm76ctvgH9O3/0Dxav5BYjOsWw/FxvABIbwI2EyfvYDNfemv7xzxoCYbzp mM4N8AyxIb46ZvFtuNW1skxMGvCWHwCC/izxtyrPaAZHhF0ouLA2OUiEdzCx4exjn6dh PYwtFc0fN3rtyEX1kKpa/hfunm7oPtTZHvL8PPU+uNzOKtIqN6W7CVExrdUrU2Ct7t7+ Cxxri40F/lyZ/LUacZI6DB3SIpw5oVmWGuZdw6U9Uu6yDAJWvX4iQSKqEWSAo0LXLxXW NPtw== X-Received: by 10.14.216.73 with SMTP id f49mr69962468eep.119.1375299052155; Wed, 31 Jul 2013 12:30:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [172.20.0.41] (196-210-102-70.dynamic.isadsl.co.za. [196.210.102.70]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id n5sm4815102eed.9.2013.07.31.12.30.50 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 31 Jul 2013 12:30:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <51F9654D.3000605@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2013 21:28:13 +0200 From: Alan McKinnon User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130709 Thunderbird/17.0.7 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] gentoo-systemd-only deprecation References: <57299332.XkTIeZ2QOq@melforce> <3017.1375206780@ccs.covici.com> <6349.1375221843@ccs.covici.com> <51F8F63E.9020705@libertytrek.org> <20130731132227.5e582ee7@digimed.co.uk> <51F9034E.7040204@libertytrek.org> <51F92CC0.2060504@libertytrek.org> <51F9480E.3080406@gmail.com> <6D922E7E-27A8-4D2B-9ADE-053755337C1C@stellar.eclipse.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <6D922E7E-27A8-4D2B-9ADE-053755337C1C@stellar.eclipse.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Archives-Salt: a000ed93-02cc-4cef-aa66-68b53472223a X-Archives-Hash: d18d13cc8d6484c01b434db7d2cda55f On 31/07/2013 20:54, Stroller wrote: > > On 31 July 2013, at 19:09, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote: > >> On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 at 12:56 PM, Stroller >> wrote: >>> >>> On 31 July 2013, at 18:23, Alan McKinnon wrote: >>>> ... >>>> Whinging about systemd binaries being installed is valid, but whinging >>>> about some data files is not. Anyone who does is letting their OCD show >>>> in ways they really should be keeping private. >>> >>> Hmmmn, it's a bit freaking weird - if I'm understanding correctly some of the statements made here about systemd - that there will be files installed to /etc/init.d/ that don't actually do anything. >> >> If you use systemd, all the files installed in /etc/init.d (except >> functions.sh) don't actually do nothing. > > Right, which is a bit freakin' odd, because on most every previous distro and other *nix system, that's where the system administrator goes to start and stop services. > > If they're not used, in this case, I don't think they should be installed. > > /etc/init.d is wholly different from /usr/share/package-name/examples > > There are many other directories on the system where it's no problem to have some idle, unused, "wasted" files, but /etc/init.d has long been an important directory. True, but this one is an oddity. The ebuild for the daemon installs those files, and the ebuild doesn't know when you change your mind about a service manager. If you omitted the init scripts, you get to remerge all your daemon packages just to get them. Yuck. And that's just crappy design. You *could* have them stored in /usr/share somewhere and "eselect service-manager" copies them around when changes are made, but that's just extra brittle layers of complexity for no good reason. A much better solution is something like a "service start|stop|reload" wrapper which RH/Fedora/Ubuntu et al have been doing for like ages. It's not really any different to using rc-update instead of fiddling with classic SysV init symlinks. A presumably the sysadmin knows what service manager he is using so knows whether to use classic init scripts or not. -- Alan McKinnon alan.mckinnon@gmail.com