From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 946A91381F3 for ; Fri, 26 Apr 2013 19:51:32 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id D0E4DE0C99; Fri, 26 Apr 2013 19:51:25 +0000 (UTC) Received: from forward6.mail.yandex.net (forward6.mail.yandex.net [77.88.60.125]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FE37E0C5D for ; Fri, 26 Apr 2013 19:51:24 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp9.mail.yandex.net (smtp9.mail.yandex.net [77.88.61.35]) by forward6.mail.yandex.net (Yandex) with ESMTP id 469551122190 for ; Fri, 26 Apr 2013 23:51:23 +0400 (MSK) Received: from smtp9.mail.yandex.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp9.mail.yandex.net (Yandex) with ESMTP id 2CA501520793 for ; Fri, 26 Apr 2013 23:51:23 +0400 (MSK) Received: from 31.207.71.159.pppoe-dynamic.pushkinnet.ru (31.207.71.159.pppoe-dynamic.pushkinnet.ru [31.207.71.159]) by smtp9.mail.yandex.net (nwsmtp/Yandex) with ESMTP id L1v6Zd4WZz-pMO8uBht; Fri, 26 Apr 2013 23:51:22 +0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yandex.ru; s=mail; t=1367005883; bh=bb0Qd08IV4luXsRcxPsSlRKV17UYzZ5KnDmDBR8RNDU=; h=Message-ID:Date:From:User-Agent:MIME-Version:To:Subject: References:In-Reply-To:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=JFcxphI/aLHrMP9VuSd2qt11r0pI1AilP3LC23PaVxG3XP+2GhlG2Du9DOKQVH68o d+Ynw2QOFSaXQcbUZSeSNSj7FGVcgTLyxYoVBRPG0K3dVP0OpH6llDFpJylVzKpM13 STFw+GYQ/gXIa0KmyMVJ1e4BavrG0ustBDTUadqk= Authentication-Results: smtp9.mail.yandex.net; dkim=pass header.i=@yandex.ru Message-ID: <517ADABA.1040006@yandex.ru> Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2013 23:51:22 +0400 From: "Yuri K. Shatroff" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130412 Thunderbird/17.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Removing pulseaudio References: <20130418193224.GA3234@acm.acm> <5170F203.3@gmail.com> <20130420093414.GA31686@waltdnes.org> <20130425191724.GA14098@waltdnes.org> <517A6D7D.7080708@yandex.ru> <517AC16D.6060400@yandex.ru> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Archives-Salt: bf05b6d7-60ae-4111-bef2-3b94562933f9 X-Archives-Hash: 111af2a29bf76b6d8a3f4700ad14a3aa On 26.04.2013 22:25, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote: [ snip ] > You do realize that Lennart hasn't been the maintainer of PulseAudio > since *BEFORE* the 1.0 release? And that now it has in fact many > contributors, and they just released 3.0 in December and are getting > ready to release 4.0? And that systemd/udev has dozens of > contributors, from (basically) all the distributions, and that several > of them are kernel developers? Just the same way as Linus is the person of the kernel, and BG is the person of Microsoft, and Moscow is the capital of Russia (don't you take literally smth like "Moscow agreed to Washington's terms"), we probably do not speak of personalities or capitals but there is of course some connection and responsibility on their behalf. > You may not like the *design* of the stuff, but you certainly can't > complaint about the *quality* of it. How can quality be apart of design? What do you then mean by quality? Quality of bytes and indentation and comments? > You are not being forced to anything: in the worst case you can patch > all the programs you use, the code is out there. Thanks, it really doesn't look like forcing. On the higher level, there must be some politics going on; that's also not forcing, but politics. On the lower level (that of users) one's always got the worst case to demonstrate there's no forcing. But why not go "the best case"? It's a big mistake to think that developing software is about writing code; NO! it's about communication. What is your software usable for except its users' usage? Ask users and try to do what they want. Forcing begins when you the developer start to think what users want without asking them, that's why (some) users don't go the windows way, the mac way or other ways and NOT the quality or design of windows or mac, nor their cost. Free doesn't just mean you get it for free -- and as if that should be the indulgence of the developers; free is (to me) the freedom of communication between them and the users, it's what is called the community! (As an example, you may notice what's going on around MySQL, losing its community; feel free to take the code and patch though, as it remains GPL'd and free!) And when I hear > Do you pay them? I answer, you need money -- why code then? Go to a stock exchange and trade, there's quite a bit more money guys. That's what about money. But if you do your job, please do it with regard to how it is going to be used. You agreed to the terms; there was no forcing. This is the line that must be drawn. (Similarly, when I'd start to pay, do I buy the right for `all my dreams to come true`? Another fair question would be: do I pay *enough*? Who pays more?) It's a neverending talk anyway. Everyone has his own attitude, and probably most of us are willing to make the world better, only according to one's own perception of "better". -- Best wishes, Yuri K. Shatroff