[gentoo-user] stage3 only for i486?

[gentoo-user] stage3 only for i486?

[Davide Carnovale]

Hi all gentoo people!
I've been away from gentoo for a while, and I'm in the process of
reinstalling it today.
While downloading the stage 3 I noticed that only an i486 version is
available. As far as I remember, gentoo was best known, back in the
days, for being fast, as it was one of the first distro to support
i686... am i wrong with this? if not, why only i486 today?

apart from the reasons behind the decision of shipping only an i486
stage 3, do you think it's worth the pain to recompile everything
(like the old stage1) for a different arch? i have an intel i5
processor.

regards

Davide

Re: [gentoo-user] stage3 only for i486?

[Michael Hampicke]

Am 02.04.2013 19:51, schrieb Davide Carnovale:
> Hi all gentoo people!
> I've been away from gentoo for a while, and I'm in the process of
> reinstalling it today.
> While downloading the stage 3 I noticed that only an i486 version is
> available. As far as I remember, gentoo was best known, back in the
> days, for being fast, as it was one of the first distro to support
> i686... am i wrong with this? if not, why only i486 today?
> 
> apart from the reasons behind the decision of shipping only an i486
> stage 3, do you think it's worth the pain to recompile everything
> (like the old stage1) for a different arch? i have an intel i5
> processor.
> 

If you're not low on system memory (less then 2GB) you really should go
the the amd64 stage.

Re: [gentoo-user] stage3 only for i486?

[Bruce Hill]

On Tue, Apr 02, 2013 at 07:51:17PM +0200, Davide Carnovale wrote:
> Hi all gentoo people!
> I've been away from gentoo for a while, and I'm in the process of
> reinstalling it today.
> While downloading the stage 3 I noticed that only an i486 version is
> available. As far as I remember, gentoo was best known, back in the
> days, for being fast, as it was one of the first distro to support
> i686... am i wrong with this? if not, why only i486 today?
> 
> apart from the reasons behind the decision of shipping only an i486
> stage 3, do you think it's worth the pain to recompile everything
> (like the old stage1) for a different arch? i have an intel i5
> processor.
> 
> regards
> 
> Davide

Hi Davide,

The directories I checked read:
http://gentoo.osuosl.org/releases/x86/autobuilds/current-stage3-i686/
but the tarball states it's hardened:
http://gentoo.osuosl.org/releases/x86/autobuilds/current-stage3-i686/stage3-i686-hardened-20130326.tar.bz2

Haven't personally used a x86 in years.
-- 
Happy Penguin Computers               >')
126 Fenco Drive                       ( \
Tupelo, MS 38801                       ^^
support@happypenguincomputers.com
662-269-2706 662-205-6424
http://happypenguincomputers.com/

A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.                                                                                                                                                          
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?                                                                                                                                                                                        
A: Top-posting.                                                                                                                                                                                                                
Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?

Don't top-post: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_post#Top-posting

Re: [gentoo-user] stage3 only for i486?

[Davide Carnovale]

Michael, thanks, i know amd64 would be better, i used to had a
multilib system, but for now i have a problem with java and 64-bit so
i'm stuck on the 32-bit world for now =)

Bruce, i see that, it looks like it's hardened indeed, i'll see what
being hardened means and if it fits me, thank you. anyways i'd expect
to also have a non hardened i686 stage 3...

having a better look at things i can see this:
http://gentoo.osuosl.org/releases/x86/autobuilds/20130305/default/20130305/
which has an i686 stage 3. i wonder what changed recently...
i guess i'll go with it for now and just update it...

D

2013/4/2 Bruce Hill <daddy@happypenguincomputers.com>:
> On Tue, Apr 02, 2013 at 07:51:17PM +0200, Davide Carnovale wrote:
>> Hi all gentoo people!
>> I've been away from gentoo for a while, and I'm in the process of
>> reinstalling it today.
>> While downloading the stage 3 I noticed that only an i486 version is
>> available. As far as I remember, gentoo was best known, back in the
>> days, for being fast, as it was one of the first distro to support
>> i686... am i wrong with this? if not, why only i486 today?
>>
>> apart from the reasons behind the decision of shipping only an i486
>> stage 3, do you think it's worth the pain to recompile everything
>> (like the old stage1) for a different arch? i have an intel i5
>> processor.
>>
>> regards
>>
>> Davide
>
> Hi Davide,
>
> The directories I checked read:
> http://gentoo.osuosl.org/releases/x86/autobuilds/current-stage3-i686/
> but the tarball states it's hardened:
> http://gentoo.osuosl.org/releases/x86/autobuilds/current-stage3-i686/stage3-i686-hardened-20130326.tar.bz2
>
> Haven't personally used a x86 in years.
> --
> Happy Penguin Computers               >')
> 126 Fenco Drive                       ( \
> Tupelo, MS 38801                       ^^
> support@happypenguincomputers.com
> 662-269-2706 662-205-6424
> http://happypenguincomputers.com/
>
> A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
> Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
> A: Top-posting.
> Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?
>
> Don't top-post: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_post#Top-posting
>

Re: [gentoo-user] stage3 only for i486?

[Alan McKinnon]

On 02/04/2013 19:51, Davide Carnovale wrote:
> Hi all gentoo people!
> I've been away from gentoo for a while, and I'm in the process of
> reinstalling it today.
> While downloading the stage 3 I noticed that only an i486 version is
> available. As far as I remember, gentoo was best known, back in the
> days, for being fast, as it was one of the first distro to support
> i686... am i wrong with this? if not, why only i486 today?
> 
> apart from the reasons behind the decision of shipping only an i486
> stage 3, do you think it's worth the pain to recompile everything
> (like the old stage1) for a different arch? i have an intel i5
> processor.

You have been gone a while :-)

These days we don't do the whole stage 1/2/3 thing while rebuilding the
whole lot multiple times.

Nowadays we just unpack a suitable stage 3 into a chroot, tweak CFLAGS,
"emerge -e world", then emerge all the packages you use.

The stage3 tarballs are normally quite out of date so you will rebuild
the whole lot anyway asap. If your workstation is also your buildhost,
the bests start for CFLAGS with a reasonably recent gcc is

CFLAGS="-march=native -O2 -pipe"

and CHOST, as always, is something you should not be touching at all.

IOW, as long as you start with the desired ABI (32 vs 64 bit) your first
update is going to optimize and fix things anyway. So don't wprry about it.

Oh, and "gentoo is fast" is a nono swear word these days. That's ricing
:-) Nowadays we say the benefit of gentoo is USE so you get what *you*
want :-)




-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan.mckinnon@gmail.com

Re: [gentoo-user] stage3 only for i486?

[Davide Carnovale]

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Ahaha thanks Alan, very explanatory and funny email!
I won't say "gentoo is fast" anymore, I promise. :-)

As for the rest i'll just keep the i486 base and start from there since I
already compiled the kernel and stuff...

Thanks all

D
Il giorno 02/apr/2013 21:18, "Alan McKinnon" <alan.mckinnon@gmail.com> ha
scritto:

> On 02/04/2013 19:51, Davide Carnovale wrote:
> > Hi all gentoo people!
> > I've been away from gentoo for a while, and I'm in the process of
> > reinstalling it today.
> > While downloading the stage 3 I noticed that only an i486 version is
> > available. As far as I remember, gentoo was best known, back in the
> > days, for being fast, as it was one of the first distro to support
> > i686... am i wrong with this? if not, why only i486 today?
> >
> > apart from the reasons behind the decision of shipping only an i486
> > stage 3, do you think it's worth the pain to recompile everything
> > (like the old stage1) for a different arch? i have an intel i5
> > processor.
>
> You have been gone a while :-)
>
> These days we don't do the whole stage 1/2/3 thing while rebuilding the
> whole lot multiple times.
>
> Nowadays we just unpack a suitable stage 3 into a chroot, tweak CFLAGS,
> "emerge -e world", then emerge all the packages you use.
>
> The stage3 tarballs are normally quite out of date so you will rebuild
> the whole lot anyway asap. If your workstation is also your buildhost,
> the bests start for CFLAGS with a reasonably recent gcc is
>
> CFLAGS="-march=native -O2 -pipe"
>
> and CHOST, as always, is something you should not be touching at all.
>
> IOW, as long as you start with the desired ABI (32 vs 64 bit) your first
> update is going to optimize and fix things anyway. So don't wprry about it.
>
> Oh, and "gentoo is fast" is a nono swear word these days. That's ricing
> :-) Nowadays we say the benefit of gentoo is USE so you get what *you*
> want :-)
>
>
>
>
> --
> Alan McKinnon
> alan.mckinnon@gmail.com
>
>
>

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Re: [gentoo-user] stage3 only for i486?

[Alan McKinnon]

:-)

While we're on the welcome stage, you should be introduced to some of
the regulars around here:

I'm the snarky old git with the weird sense of humour that often morphs
into biting sarcasm.

Neil Bothwick is the eccentric English gent who can get across a whole
paragraph in two words. He also has a crystal ball in his fortune sig.

Dale is the best User Acceptance Tester in the whole universe. Dale
finds bugs that cannot possibly exist (the ones who's very existence
violates Quantum Mechanics). Anf yet, he finds them.

Volker is the voice of unreasonable reason. If you say something stupid,
he will let you know. He is usually right.

Bruce is the voice of reasonable reason, he must have picked it up in
China those 10 years he was there. He too is usually right.

Michael Mol is our resident expert on correctness, who will gladly
explain at length how any workaround you ever dream up is an abomination
and should not be suffered to live. In a strange quirk of reality, he
too is usually right.

Canek has found a voice as the Gnome3/systemd/udev evangelist. Take any
new piece of software that irks us old farts, and Canek is sure to run
it, find it to be good, and tell you all about it.

James is our embedded guy. No-one knows exactly what James does, but it
involves teeny weeny systems with less RAM than your wristwatch, and
somehow Gentoo runs on it. I think it's $MAGIC, he will say it is
$SCIENCE, I won't argue.

Grant is our entrepeneur, forever tweaking code to do stuff that none of
us comprehend. Grant speaks a foreign language, I believe it is called
"Business". The rest of us speak a different language called
"Technical". And yet somehow we communicate. It's weird.

Mark is the money guy, he does trades. On Gentoo. All trading software
is Windows only, so Mark learned $MAGIC. He hasn't been around for a
while, maybe he'll see this and say hello <wave>

There are many more regulars. Those are just the few I know well enough
to mention them without getting ripped a new one :-)


Cheers,





On 02/04/2013 21:40, Davide Carnovale wrote:
> Ahaha thanks Alan, very explanatory and funny email!
> I won't say "gentoo is fast" anymore, I promise. :-)
> 
> As for the rest i'll just keep the i486 base and start from there since
> I already compiled the kernel and stuff...
> 
> Thanks all
> 
> D
> 
> Il giorno 02/apr/2013 21:18, "Alan McKinnon" <alan.mckinnon@gmail.com
> <mailto:alan.mckinnon@gmail.com>> ha scritto:
> 
>     On 02/04/2013 19:51, Davide Carnovale wrote:
>     > Hi all gentoo people!
>     > I've been away from gentoo for a while, and I'm in the process of
>     > reinstalling it today.
>     > While downloading the stage 3 I noticed that only an i486 version is
>     > available. As far as I remember, gentoo was best known, back in the
>     > days, for being fast, as it was one of the first distro to support
>     > i686... am i wrong with this? if not, why only i486 today?
>     >
>     > apart from the reasons behind the decision of shipping only an i486
>     > stage 3, do you think it's worth the pain to recompile everything
>     > (like the old stage1) for a different arch? i have an intel i5
>     > processor.
> 
>     You have been gone a while :-)
> 
>     These days we don't do the whole stage 1/2/3 thing while rebuilding the
>     whole lot multiple times.
> 
>     Nowadays we just unpack a suitable stage 3 into a chroot, tweak CFLAGS,
>     "emerge -e world", then emerge all the packages you use.
> 
>     The stage3 tarballs are normally quite out of date so you will rebuild
>     the whole lot anyway asap. If your workstation is also your buildhost,
>     the bests start for CFLAGS with a reasonably recent gcc is
> 
>     CFLAGS="-march=native -O2 -pipe"
> 
>     and CHOST, as always, is something you should not be touching at all.
> 
>     IOW, as long as you start with the desired ABI (32 vs 64 bit) your first
>     update is going to optimize and fix things anyway. So don't wprry
>     about it.
> 
>     Oh, and "gentoo is fast" is a nono swear word these days. That's ricing
>     :-) Nowadays we say the benefit of gentoo is USE so you get what *you*
>     want :-)
> 
> 
> 
> 
>     --
>     Alan McKinnon
>     alan.mckinnon@gmail.com <mailto:alan.mckinnon@gmail.com>
> 
> 


-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan.mckinnon@gmail.com

Re: [gentoo-user] stage3 only for i486?

[Francesco Talamona]

On Tuesday 02 April 2013 19:51:17 Davide Carnovale wrote:
> Hi all gentoo people!
> I've been away from gentoo for a while, and I'm in the process of
> reinstalling it today.
> While downloading the stage 3 I noticed that only an i486 version is
> available. As far as I remember, gentoo was best known, back in the
> days, for being fast, as it was one of the first distro to support
> i686... am i wrong with this? if not, why only i486 today?
> 
> apart from the reasons behind the decision of shipping only an i486
> stage 3, do you think it's worth the pain to recompile everything
> (like the old stage1) for a different arch? i have an intel i5
> processor.
> 
> regards
> 
> Davide

Your bookmarks are very very old ;)

The stage3 is available for almost every supported arch, see for example:

http://distfiles.gentoo.org/releases/alpha/autobuilds/current-stage3/
http://distfiles.gentoo.org/releases/amd64/autobuilds/current-stage3/

those above are two links taken from:

http://www.gentoo.org/main/it/where.xml

HTH. Ciao
	Francesco

Re: [gentoo-user] stage3 only for i486?

[Davide Carnovale]

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Alan, thanks a lot for the cool description of you guys, I hope i'll get to
know you all :-)

Francesco, thank you, but you linked alpha and amd64, and i can't see any
recent one for x86

D
Il giorno 02/apr/2013 23:01, "Francesco Talamona" <
francesco.talamona@know.eu> ha scritto:

> On Tuesday 02 April 2013 19:51:17 Davide Carnovale wrote:
> > Hi all gentoo people!
> > I've been away from gentoo for a while, and I'm in the process of
> > reinstalling it today.
> > While downloading the stage 3 I noticed that only an i486 version is
> > available. As far as I remember, gentoo was best known, back in the
> > days, for being fast, as it was one of the first distro to support
> > i686... am i wrong with this? if not, why only i486 today?
> >
> > apart from the reasons behind the decision of shipping only an i486
> > stage 3, do you think it's worth the pain to recompile everything
> > (like the old stage1) for a different arch? i have an intel i5
> > processor.
> >
> > regards
> >
> > Davide
>
> Your bookmarks are very very old ;)
>
> The stage3 is available for almost every supported arch, see for example:
>
> http://distfiles.gentoo.org/releases/alpha/autobuilds/current-stage3/
> http://distfiles.gentoo.org/releases/amd64/autobuilds/current-stage3/
>
> those above are two links taken from:
>
> http://www.gentoo.org/main/it/where.xml
>
> HTH. Ciao
>         Francesco
>
>
>

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Re: [gentoo-user] stage3 only for i486?

[Daniel Frey]

On 04/02/2013 12:17 PM, Alan McKinnon wrote:
> 
> Oh, and "gentoo is fast" is a nono swear word these days. That's ricing
> :-) Nowadays we say the benefit of gentoo is USE so you get what *you*
> want :-)
> 

When I'm asked, I say that gentoo is extremely flexible and can be
tailored in almost infinite ways depending on its application.

It's why I'm still using it on the desktop, maintenance time be damned.
I've tried other distros and always come back to gentoo. The lack of
flexibility with other package managers (or lack of being able to
replace the default package manager) on other distros is very
disappointing. Guess I've been spoiled too much...

Dan

Re: [gentoo-user] stage3 only for i486?

[Raymond Jennings]

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as for the i486 only thing, my guess is because the kernel dropped support
for 386 when 3.8 came out


On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 4:41 PM, Daniel Frey <djqfrey@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 04/02/2013 12:17 PM, Alan McKinnon wrote:
> >
> > Oh, and "gentoo is fast" is a nono swear word these days. That's ricing
> > :-) Nowadays we say the benefit of gentoo is USE so you get what *you*
> > want :-)
> >
>
> When I'm asked, I say that gentoo is extremely flexible and can be
> tailored in almost infinite ways depending on its application.
>
> It's why I'm still using it on the desktop, maintenance time be damned.
> I've tried other distros and always come back to gentoo. The lack of
> flexibility with other package managers (or lack of being able to
> replace the default package manager) on other distros is very
> disappointing. Guess I've been spoiled too much...
>
> Dan
>
>
>

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Re: [gentoo-user] stage3 only for i486?

[Alan McKinnon]

On 03/04/2013 01:41, Daniel Frey wrote:
> On 04/02/2013 12:17 PM, Alan McKinnon wrote:
>>
>> Oh, and "gentoo is fast" is a nono swear word these days. That's ricing
>> :-) Nowadays we say the benefit of gentoo is USE so you get what *you*
>> want :-)
>>
> 
> When I'm asked, I say that gentoo is extremely flexible and can be
> tailored in almost infinite ways depending on its application.
> 
> It's why I'm still using it on the desktop, maintenance time be damned.
> I've tried other distros and always come back to gentoo. The lack of
> flexibility with other package managers (or lack of being able to
> replace the default package manager) on other distros is very
> disappointing. Guess I've been spoiled too much...


You and me both :-)

To this day on the servers at work I *still* reach to

USE="-avahi -zeroconf -mdns -ldap -gnutls nls -other-bundled-crap"

and then I remember oh wait, this is centos.

Spoiled by Gentoo? Yes, indeed, most definitely.

-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan.mckinnon@gmail.com

Re: [gentoo-user] stage3 only for i486?

[Peter Humphrey]

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On Wednesday 03 April 2013 08:59:51 Alan McKinnon wrote:

> To this day on the servers at work I *still* reach to
> 
> USE="-avahi -zeroconf -mdns -ldap -gnutls nls -other-bundled-crap"

Seeing -gnutls in there prompted me to go and find out why I have it on this 
box. Turns out that phonon requires it, indirectly, and is itself pulled in 
by several core components of KDE and QT.

So no doing without it hereabouts.

-- 
Peter

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[gentoo-user] Re: stage3 only for i486?

[James]

Alan McKinnon <alan.mckinnon <at> gmail.com> writes:



> James is our embedded guy. No-one knows exactly what James does, but it
> involves teeny weeny systems with less RAM than your wristwatch, and
> somehow Gentoo runs on it. I think it's $MAGIC, he will say it is
> $SCIENCE, I won't argue.

My X would refer to me, as an interupt processor with no
return vector.....I'd argue it is sporadic and random, at
best .........


i486....................interesting........
I would point out that there has been much discussion
(gentoo-dev and elsewhere) bout changing the install
manuals to system-rescue based. Over the years the installation
options have mutiplied, to say the least. It seems everybody
has there own approach. Gentoo is like golf: 
eventually everybody sinks the putt....... nobody (sane) keeps score!

> >     Alan McKinnon

Cheers!
James

Re: [gentoo-user] stage3 only for i486?

[Alan McKinnon]

On 03/04/2013 17:37, Peter Humphrey wrote:
> On Wednesday 03 April 2013 08:59:51 Alan McKinnon wrote:
> 
>  
> 
>> To this day on the servers at work I *still* reach to
> 
>>
> 
>> USE="-avahi -zeroconf -mdns -ldap -gnutls nls -other-bundled-crap"
> 
>  
> 
> Seeing -gnutls in there prompted me to go and find out why I have it on
> this box. Turns out that phonon requires it, indirectly, and is itself
> pulled in by several core components of KDE and QT.
> 
>  
> 
> So no doing without it hereabouts.


:-)

that's not my really real USE - it's just a bunch of flags I whipped up
to illustrate. Many people would want to disable some of those, it was
an easy way to show that Gentoo lets your tweak what support you want as
opposed to Centos which does not


-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan.mckinnon@gmail.com

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: stage3 only for i486?

[Alan McKinnon]

On 03/04/2013 20:44, James wrote:
> i486....................interesting........
> I would point out that there has been much discussion
> (gentoo-dev and elsewhere) bout changing the install
> manuals to system-rescue based. Over the years the installation
> options have mutiplied, to say the least. It seems everybody
> has there own approach. Gentoo is like golf: 
> eventually everybody sinks the putt....... nobody (sane) keeps score!


I have my own view on that. I'd say the handbook should just tell people
to make a chroot in any old distro of their choice. Personally, I use
RiplinuX, mostly because I've used it for years

The reason I say Gentoo shouldn't worry about installers is that the
typical person installing Gentoo already knows about chroots. Someone
who doesn't is unlikely to consider Gentoo at all (unless they are
looking to rice, but we long since moved past that).

This idea will of course not be popular, I'll be told I'm trying to be
elitist, and so the search for the perfect installer will continue unabated



-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan.mckinnon@gmail.com

Re: [gentoo-user] stage3 only for i486?

[Stroller]

On 3 April 2013, at 20:36, Alan McKinnon wrote:
> ...
> The reason I say Gentoo shouldn't worry about installers is that the
> typical person installing Gentoo already knows about chroots. Someone
> who doesn't is unlikely to consider Gentoo at all

It's been a while, but I don't think I knew what a chroot was when I installed Gentoo.

I can't say that I have a great understanding of chrooting today, or that I've ever used it for anything but installing Gentoo.

Stroller.

Re: [gentoo-user] stage3 only for i486?

[Davide Carnovale]

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Stroller, i didn't knew what a chroot was back then either, but i've found
in gentoo a vdery good teacher. If you are willing to learn, with gentoo
you can go as deeper as you want and learn a lot. Most of the linux
knowledge i have i owe it to gentoo.

As far as i understand know, chroot is pretty much a cage. you confine the
system in a smaller folder structure and from the inside, you cannot access
the outside (while it's true the opposite). it's particularly handy to
"cage" a webserver for instance, so if someone hacks it, they don't see the
entire system, but only the portion you chrooted.

when installing gentoo, you chroot into the smaller gentoo system,
contiained into the booting distro, be it a livecd or another distro.

D
Il giorno 04/apr/2013 05:07, "Stroller" <stroller@stellar.eclipse.co.uk> ha
scritto:

>
> On 3 April 2013, at 20:36, Alan McKinnon wrote:
> > ...
> > The reason I say Gentoo shouldn't worry about installers is that the
> > typical person installing Gentoo already knows about chroots. Someone
> > who doesn't is unlikely to consider Gentoo at all
>
> It's been a while, but I don't think I knew what a chroot was when I
> installed Gentoo.
>
> I can't say that I have a great understanding of chrooting today, or that
> I've ever used it for anything but installing Gentoo.
>
> Stroller.
>
>
>
>

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: stage3 only for i486?

[Yuri K. Shatroff]

On 03.04.2013 23:36, Alan McKinnon wrote:
>
> The reason I say Gentoo shouldn't worry about installers is that the
> typical person installing Gentoo already knows about chroots. Someone
> who doesn't is unlikely to consider Gentoo at all (unless they are
> looking to rice, but we long since moved past that).

As for me, the Gentoo installation process is really much easier than 
that of some installer-based distros. Regardless of knowledge of what 
chroot is, if one follows the (very well written and detailed) 
installation docs, he'd get Gentoo installed with far less effort than 
trying to make out what all these fancy buttons and menus mean in a 
graphical installer.
And from an already-user-of-another-distro point of view, it's even more 
attractive that he can install and tune Gentoo from his 
already-installed linux, not even wasting time writing CDs, booting and 
stuff.

And the guys around here confirmed that they hadn't had problems with 
chroot :)

> This idea will of course not be popular, I'll be told I'm trying to be
> elitist, and so the search for the perfect installer will continue unabated

Well, an installer certainly would find its users. But none is perfect, 
and writing another (imperfect) one exclusively for Gentoo is sort of 
wasting time. A "true" Gentoo way IMO would be a selection of installers 
on the installation medium ;-) But AFAICT it is this idea that wouldn't 
be popular, rather than leaving no-installer at all.
Regarding elitism, can the absence of an installer be considered elite? 
:) I'd rather call 'elite' e.g. the OpenSUSE installer (a claim for 
elite, at least).
Probably it's time for me to agree with the 'Gentoo is what it is' 
pattern I had argued against a month ago. =)

-- 
Best wishes,
Yuri K. Shatroff

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: stage3 only for i486?

[Alan McKinnon]

On 04/04/2013 10:15, Yuri K. Shatroff wrote:
> Well, an installer certainly would find its users. But none is perfect,
> and writing another (imperfect) one exclusively for Gentoo is sort of
> wasting time. A "true" Gentoo way IMO would be a selection of installers
> on the installation medium ;-) But AFAICT it is this idea that wouldn't
> be popular, rather than leaving no-installer at all.

A true GentooWay installer would be any installer of your own choice
that launches the shell of your chosing, accepts any stage3 tarball that
you want and gotten from anywhere you choose to get it, and unpacked any
place you feel like putting it. It will then run the software of your
choice and install whatever you tell it to.

That's an awful lot of "your choices" :-)



-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan.mckinnon@gmail.com

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: stage3 only for i486?

[Joshua Murphy]

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I


On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 5:06 AM, Alan McKinnon <alan.mckinnon@gmail.com>wrote:

> On 04/04/2013 10:15, Yuri K. Shatroff wrote:
> > Well, an installer certainly would find its users. But none is perfect,
> > and writing another (imperfect) one exclusively for Gentoo is sort of
> > wasting time. A "true" Gentoo way IMO would be a selection of installers
> > on the installation medium ;-) But AFAICT it is this idea that wouldn't
> > be popular, rather than leaving no-installer at all.
>
> A true GentooWay installer would be any installer of your own choice
> that launches the shell of your chosing, accepts any stage3 tarball that
> you want and gotten from anywhere you choose to get it, and unpacked any
> place you feel like putting it. It will then run the software of your
> choice and install whatever you tell it to.
>
> That's an awful lot of "your choices" :-)
>
>
>
> --
> Alan McKinnon
> alan.mckinnon@gmail.com
>
>
>
Isn't that exactly what the guide itself is? The only thing it doesn't make
explicit is the choice of package manager and choice of shell, though that
itself could be considered an advanced feature available to those
experienced enough to know they want the choice, who are, I would
hope, knowledgeable enough to make and enact that choice at the appropriate
point in the install. The only feature the guide lacks is a pretty point
and click interface that either over-clutters the user with options or
denies them choices they might want, which I might add, the same could be
said of portage itself.

-- 
Poison [BLX]
Joshua M. Murphy

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: stage3 only for i486?

[Philip Webb]

130404 Alan McKinnon wrote:
> A true GentooWay installer would be any installer of your own choice
> that launches the shell of your chosing, accepts any stage3 tarball that
> you want and gotten from anywhere you choose to get it, and unpacked any
> place you feel like putting it. It will then run the software of your
> choice and install whatever you tell it to.

In my Commonplace Book of quotes for the ages (big smile) !

Installing Gentoo is the age-old trial by fire
or the ritual hazing well known to students, marines & Masons.

-- 
========================,,============================================
SUPPORT     ___________//___,   Philip Webb
ELECTRIC   /] [] [] [] [] []|   Cities Centre, University of Toronto
TRANSIT    `-O----------O---'   purslowatchassdotutorontodotca