[gentoo-user] Creating accounts in Thunderbird

[gentoo-user] Creating accounts in Thunderbird

[Alan McKinnon]

Test driving this newfangled thunderbird thingy, trying to create the
last of my several accounts.

This account does not need SMTP settings, i never send from it.
But the create Account Wizard insists on trying to validate passwords
and every setting other under the sun.

How do I get Thunderbird to act like software and not assume it know
better than I do?
All I want is for it to accept what I put in the textbox and use it,
*and*do*nothing*else.

Is there some magic config file where I can bypass the wizard?

-- 
alan.mckinnon@gmail.com

Re: [gentoo-user] Creating accounts in Thunderbird

[Michael Hampicke]

Am 03.02.2013 12:51, schrieb Alan McKinnon:
> Test driving this newfangled thunderbird thingy, trying to create the
> last of my several accounts.
> 
> This account does not need SMTP settings, i never send from it.
> But the create Account Wizard insists on trying to validate passwords
> and every setting other under the sun.
> 
> How do I get Thunderbird to act like software and not assume it know
> better than I do?
> All I want is for it to accept what I put in the textbox and use it,
> *and*do*nothing*else.
> 
> Is there some magic config file where I can bypass the wizard?
> 

In the account wizzard, just click on manual config, enter all your
settings, that's all. Just tested it with TB18.

Re: [gentoo-user] Creating accounts in Thunderbird

[Alan McKinnon]

On 03/02/2013 14:30, Michael Hampicke wrote:
> Am 03.02.2013 12:51, schrieb Alan McKinnon:
>> Test driving this newfangled thunderbird thingy, trying to create the
>> last of my several accounts.
>>
>> This account does not need SMTP settings, i never send from it.
>> But the create Account Wizard insists on trying to validate passwords
>> and every setting other under the sun.
>>
>> How do I get Thunderbird to act like software and not assume it know
>> better than I do?
>> All I want is for it to accept what I put in the textbox and use it,
>> *and*do*nothing*else.
>>
>> Is there some magic config file where I can bypass the wizard?
>>
> 
> In the account wizzard, just click on manual config, enter all your
> settings, that's all. Just tested it with TB18.
> 

Tried that, TB17 insists on verifying the password and won't continue
until the check passes.

Doesn't this software have a --justdowhatisay option?

It's a frigging email account for deities sake, it won't break things.
It's not launch codes for ICBMs....

-- 
alan.mckinnon@gmail.com

Re: [gentoo-user] Creating accounts in Thunderbird

[Michael Hampicke]

Am 03.02.2013 13:32, schrieb Alan McKinnon:
> On 03/02/2013 14:30, Michael Hampicke wrote:
>> Am 03.02.2013 12:51, schrieb Alan McKinnon:
>>> Test driving this newfangled thunderbird thingy, trying to create the
>>> last of my several accounts.
>>>
>>> This account does not need SMTP settings, i never send from it.
>>> But the create Account Wizard insists on trying to validate passwords
>>> and every setting other under the sun.
>>>
>>> How do I get Thunderbird to act like software and not assume it know
>>> better than I do?
>>> All I want is for it to accept what I put in the textbox and use it,
>>> *and*do*nothing*else.
>>>
>>> Is there some magic config file where I can bypass the wizard?
>>>
>>
>> In the account wizzard, just click on manual config, enter all your
>> settings, that's all. Just tested it with TB18.
>>
> 
> Tried that, TB17 insists on verifying the password and won't continue
> until the check passes.
> 
> Doesn't this software have a --justdowhatisay option?
> 
> It's a frigging email account for deities sake, it won't break things.
> It's not launch codes for ICBMs....
> 

Have you tried clicking on "advanced settings" then? This should close
the account wizzard - but create your account.

Re: [gentoo-user] Creating accounts in Thunderbird

[Alan McKinnon]

On 03/02/2013 14:37, Michael Hampicke wrote:
> Am 03.02.2013 13:32, schrieb Alan McKinnon:
>> On 03/02/2013 14:30, Michael Hampicke wrote:
>>> Am 03.02.2013 12:51, schrieb Alan McKinnon:
>>>> Test driving this newfangled thunderbird thingy, trying to create the
>>>> last of my several accounts.
>>>>
>>>> This account does not need SMTP settings, i never send from it.
>>>> But the create Account Wizard insists on trying to validate passwords
>>>> and every setting other under the sun.
>>>>
>>>> How do I get Thunderbird to act like software and not assume it know
>>>> better than I do?
>>>> All I want is for it to accept what I put in the textbox and use it,
>>>> *and*do*nothing*else.
>>>>
>>>> Is there some magic config file where I can bypass the wizard?
>>>>
>>>
>>> In the account wizzard, just click on manual config, enter all your
>>> settings, that's all. Just tested it with TB18.
>>>
>>
>> Tried that, TB17 insists on verifying the password and won't continue
>> until the check passes.
>>
>> Doesn't this software have a --justdowhatisay option?
>>
>> It's a frigging email account for deities sake, it won't break things.
>> It's not launch codes for ICBMs....
>>
> 
> Have you tried clicking on "advanced settings" then? This should close
> the account wizzard - but create your account.
> 

I'm starting to suspect a bug in the wizard. The "advanced settings"
starts greyed-out and the only way I found to activate it was to make
all the textboxes (IMAP and SMTP server plus ports) blank and select
something other than "Auto" for all the auth types.

Then advanced config gives me an alarming popup with red background
about unsafe (i.e. not encrypted) connections but al least the "Done"
control is active. Click that and it wants to verify the password, bu
this never succeeds.

This is TB17:

     Installed versions:  17.0.2(02:09:12 14/01/2013)(alsa crypt dbus
ipc jit ldap libnotify lightning minimal startup-notification wifi
-bindist -custom-cflags -custom-optimization -debug -gconf -mozdom
-selinux -system-sqlite LINGUAS="en_GB -ar -ast -be -bg -bn_BD -br -ca
-cs -da -de -el -es_AR -es_ES -et -eu -fi -fr -fy_NL -ga_IE -gd -gl -he
-hr -hu -hy_AM -id -is -it -ja -ko -lt -nb_NO -nl -nn_NO -pa_IN -pl
-pt_BR -pt_PT -rm -ro -ru -si -sk -sl -sq -sr -sv_SE -ta_LK -tr -uk -vi
-zh_CN -zh_TW")


Do you use TB18 direct from mozilla.org, or perhaps from an overlay
somewhere?

-- 
alan.mckinnon@gmail.com

Re: [gentoo-user] Creating accounts in Thunderbird

[Michael Hampicke]

Am 03.02.2013 13:54, schrieb Alan McKinnon:
> On 03/02/2013 14:37, Michael Hampicke wrote:
>> Am 03.02.2013 13:32, schrieb Alan McKinnon:
>>> On 03/02/2013 14:30, Michael Hampicke wrote:
>>>> Am 03.02.2013 12:51, schrieb Alan McKinnon:
>>>>> Test driving this newfangled thunderbird thingy, trying to create the
>>>>> last of my several accounts.
>>>>>
>>>>> This account does not need SMTP settings, i never send from it.
>>>>> But the create Account Wizard insists on trying to validate passwords
>>>>> and every setting other under the sun.
>>>>>
>>>>> How do I get Thunderbird to act like software and not assume it know
>>>>> better than I do?
>>>>> All I want is for it to accept what I put in the textbox and use it,
>>>>> *and*do*nothing*else.
>>>>>
>>>>> Is there some magic config file where I can bypass the wizard?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> In the account wizzard, just click on manual config, enter all your
>>>> settings, that's all. Just tested it with TB18.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Tried that, TB17 insists on verifying the password and won't continue
>>> until the check passes.
>>>
>>> Doesn't this software have a --justdowhatisay option?
>>>
>>> It's a frigging email account for deities sake, it won't break things.
>>> It's not launch codes for ICBMs....
>>>
>>
>> Have you tried clicking on "advanced settings" then? This should close
>> the account wizzard - but create your account.
>>
> 
> I'm starting to suspect a bug in the wizard. The "advanced settings"
> starts greyed-out and the only way I found to activate it was to make
> all the textboxes (IMAP and SMTP server plus ports) blank and select
> something other than "Auto" for all the auth types.
> 
I re-checked this. You are right, advanced settings starts greyed out
(have not noticed that before, I only clicked on it after I manually
have filled out all the fields)

> Then advanced config gives me an alarming popup with red background
> about unsafe (i.e. not encrypted) connections but al least the "Done"
> control is active. Click that and it wants to verify the password, bu
> this never succeeds.
True, it should really let you finish the configuration at this time,
even when the auth failes. The only option you now have is to use the
advanced button.

> 
> This is TB17:
> 
>      Installed versions:  17.0.2(02:09:12 14/01/2013)(alsa crypt dbus
> ipc jit ldap libnotify lightning minimal startup-notification wifi
> -bindist -custom-cflags -custom-optimization -debug -gconf -mozdom
> -selinux -system-sqlite LINGUAS="en_GB -ar -ast -be -bg -bn_BD -br -ca
> -cs -da -de -el -es_AR -es_ES -et -eu -fi -fr -fy_NL -ga_IE -gd -gl -he
> -hr -hu -hy_AM -id -is -it -ja -ko -lt -nb_NO -nl -nn_NO -pa_IN -pl
> -pt_BR -pt_PT -rm -ro -ru -si -sk -sl -sq -sr -sv_SE -ta_LK -tr -uk -vi
> -zh_CN -zh_TW")
> 
> 
> Do you use TB18 direct from mozilla.org, or perhaps from an overlay
> somewhere?
> 

I use thunderbird-bin. I suspect it's the version from mozilla.org

Re: [gentoo-user] Creating accounts in Thunderbird

[Alan McKinnon]

On 03/02/2013 15:05, Michael Hampicke wrote:
> Am 03.02.2013 13:54, schrieb Alan McKinnon:
>> On 03/02/2013 14:37, Michael Hampicke wrote:
>>> Am 03.02.2013 13:32, schrieb Alan McKinnon:
>>>> On 03/02/2013 14:30, Michael Hampicke wrote:
>>>>> Am 03.02.2013 12:51, schrieb Alan McKinnon:
>>>>>> Test driving this newfangled thunderbird thingy, trying to create the
>>>>>> last of my several accounts.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This account does not need SMTP settings, i never send from it.
>>>>>> But the create Account Wizard insists on trying to validate passwords
>>>>>> and every setting other under the sun.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> How do I get Thunderbird to act like software and not assume it know
>>>>>> better than I do?
>>>>>> All I want is for it to accept what I put in the textbox and use it,
>>>>>> *and*do*nothing*else.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is there some magic config file where I can bypass the wizard?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> In the account wizzard, just click on manual config, enter all your
>>>>> settings, that's all. Just tested it with TB18.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Tried that, TB17 insists on verifying the password and won't continue
>>>> until the check passes.
>>>>
>>>> Doesn't this software have a --justdowhatisay option?
>>>>
>>>> It's a frigging email account for deities sake, it won't break things.
>>>> It's not launch codes for ICBMs....
>>>>
>>>
>>> Have you tried clicking on "advanced settings" then? This should close
>>> the account wizzard - but create your account.
>>>
>>
>> I'm starting to suspect a bug in the wizard. The "advanced settings"
>> starts greyed-out and the only way I found to activate it was to make
>> all the textboxes (IMAP and SMTP server plus ports) blank and select
>> something other than "Auto" for all the auth types.
>>
> I re-checked this. You are right, advanced settings starts greyed out
> (have not noticed that before, I only clicked on it after I manually
> have filled out all the fields)
>
>> Then advanced config gives me an alarming popup with red background
>> about unsafe (i.e. not encrypted) connections but al least the "Done"
>> control is active. Click that and it wants to verify the password, bu
>> this never succeeds.
> True, it should really let you finish the configuration at this time,
> even when the auth failes. The only option you now have is to use the
> advanced button.
>
>>
>> This is TB17:
>>
>>       Installed versions:  17.0.2(02:09:12 14/01/2013)(alsa crypt dbus
>> ipc jit ldap libnotify lightning minimal startup-notification wifi
>> -bindist -custom-cflags -custom-optimization -debug -gconf -mozdom
>> -selinux -system-sqlite LINGUAS="en_GB -ar -ast -be -bg -bn_BD -br -ca
>> -cs -da -de -el -es_AR -es_ES -et -eu -fi -fr -fy_NL -ga_IE -gd -gl -he
>> -hr -hu -hy_AM -id -is -it -ja -ko -lt -nb_NO -nl -nn_NO -pa_IN -pl
>> -pt_BR -pt_PT -rm -ro -ru -si -sk -sl -sq -sr -sv_SE -ta_LK -tr -uk -vi
>> -zh_CN -zh_TW")
>>
>>
>> Do you use TB18 direct from mozilla.org, or perhaps from an overlay
>> somewhere?
>>
>
> I use thunderbird-bin. I suspect it's the version from mozilla.org
>

So what we have here is a piece of FOSS software that is too fucking 
clever for it's own good. It's applying insane validation checks to 
things that are not in any spec at all:

- I want two IMAP accounts. One runs locally on port 143. The other one 
is also local, and just happens to use the same username. It also runs 
on a different port which uses ssl magic to tunnel through into the 
corporate network. A mail client has no business deciding it will not 
add the second account because it already has something for that 
username and host. So fucking what? I'll run 19 imap servers on 
localhost if I feel like it, it's no business of Mozilla if I do

- I don't *actually* need to give a valid password for a mail client to 
configure the account. So what if I don't have the password right now? 
Maybe I'll get it later. Just add the damn thing to your config and stop 
refusing to continue if you can't validate the password! That becomes my 
problem not Mozillas!

- When I change data in a textbox on a dialog and the "Advanced config" 
button ungreys, I sorta kinda expect it to do something. Like maybe let 
me add stuff that is out of the ordinary. i sorta kinda don't expect it 
to do nothing nothing whatsoever at all and sit there having no effect.

- Wizards are fine for helping out Aunt Tilly. But for the love of Pete, 
give advanced users a way to bypass the thing and enter information that 
has not occurred to Mozilla devs yet. It;'s not hard to come out with 
scenarios that any wizard does not cater for.

Rant over. Now where is Thunderbirds bugzilla?

Re: [gentoo-user] Creating accounts in Thunderbird

[Michael Hampicke]

Am 03.02.2013 15:08, schrieb Alan McKinnon:
> 
> So what we have here is a piece of FOSS software that is too fucking
> clever for it's own good. It's applying insane validation checks to
> things that are not in any spec at all:
> 
> - I want two IMAP accounts. One runs locally on port 143. The other one
> is also local, and just happens to use the same username. It also runs
> on a different port which uses ssl magic to tunnel through into the
> corporate network. A mail client has no business deciding it will not
> add the second account because it already has something for that
> username and host. So fucking what? I'll run 19 imap servers on
> localhost if I feel like it, it's no business of Mozilla if I do
> 
> - I don't *actually* need to give a valid password for a mail client to
> configure the account. So what if I don't have the password right now?
> Maybe I'll get it later. Just add the damn thing to your config and stop
> refusing to continue if you can't validate the password! That becomes my
> problem not Mozillas!
> 
> - When I change data in a textbox on a dialog and the "Advanced config"
> button ungreys, I sorta kinda expect it to do something. Like maybe let
> me add stuff that is out of the ordinary. i sorta kinda don't expect it
> to do nothing nothing whatsoever at all and sit there having no effect.
> 
> - Wizards are fine for helping out Aunt Tilly. But for the love of Pete,
> give advanced users a way to bypass the thing and enter information that
> has not occurred to Mozilla devs yet. It;'s not hard to come out with
> scenarios that any wizard does not cater for.
> 
> Rant over. Now where is Thunderbirds bugzilla?
> 

Here you go https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/
And while your at it, tell them to drop that social media shite like FB
from their products :)

Re: [gentoo-user] Creating accounts in Thunderbird

[Alan McKinnon]

On 03/02/2013 16:28, Michael Hampicke wrote:
> Am 03.02.2013 15:08, schrieb Alan McKinnon:
>> So what we have here is a piece of FOSS software that is too fucking
>> clever for it's own good. It's applying insane validation checks to
>> things that are not in any spec at all:
>>
>> - I want two IMAP accounts. One runs locally on port 143. The other one
>> is also local, and just happens to use the same username. It also runs
>> on a different port which uses ssl magic to tunnel through into the
>> corporate network. A mail client has no business deciding it will not
>> add the second account because it already has something for that
>> username and host. So fucking what? I'll run 19 imap servers on
>> localhost if I feel like it, it's no business of Mozilla if I do
>>
>> - I don't *actually* need to give a valid password for a mail client to
>> configure the account. So what if I don't have the password right now?
>> Maybe I'll get it later. Just add the damn thing to your config and stop
>> refusing to continue if you can't validate the password! That becomes my
>> problem not Mozillas!
>>
>> - When I change data in a textbox on a dialog and the "Advanced config"
>> button ungreys, I sorta kinda expect it to do something. Like maybe let
>> me add stuff that is out of the ordinary. i sorta kinda don't expect it
>> to do nothing nothing whatsoever at all and sit there having no effect.
>>
>> - Wizards are fine for helping out Aunt Tilly. But for the love of Pete,
>> give advanced users a way to bypass the thing and enter information that
>> has not occurred to Mozilla devs yet. It;'s not hard to come out with
>> scenarios that any wizard does not cater for.
>>
>> Rant over. Now where is Thunderbirds bugzilla?
>>
> Here you go https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/
> And while your at it, tell them to drop that social media shite like FB
> from their products :)
>
>

I got it fixed eventually. Here's the hoops I had to jump through:

Put thunderbird in offline mode. The wizard is at least smart enough to
recognise it can't verify stuff online if it's offline so it goes
straight to advanced mode.

Enter sane defaults for mail accounts that exist. To get two accounts on
localhost (on different ports), do this:

For the first one, host is 127.0.0.1, wizard validates it as saves it as
"localhost".
For the second one, host is again entered as 172.0.0.1, which is a
different string to "localhost", validation succeeds and config is
written to prefs.js. Ha-ha! Gotcha motherfucker! Your stupid front end
validation didn't think of that!

Quit thunderbird.
vi /path/to/prefs.js
Clean up manually any residual crap left behind by the wizard

Start thunderbird, go to online mode. Observe how mail fetch works.
Observe how HTML is TheWaveOfTheFuture and spend next two hours getting
in the way of TheWave.

Sometime this week I might even get around to filing a bug, once I've
calmed down somewhat and once my initial choice of words is slightly
less profane than it is now.

:-)

p.s thanks for chipping in with suggestions and help. Appreciate it.


-- 
alan.mckinnon@gmail.com

Re: [gentoo-user] Creating accounts in Thunderbird

[Paul Hartman]

On Sun, Feb 3, 2013 at 11:32 AM, Alan McKinnon <alan.mckinnon@gmail.com> wrote:
> For the first one, host is 127.0.0.1, wizard validates it as saves it as
> "localhost".
> For the second one, host is again entered as 172.0.0.1, which is a
> different string to "localhost", validation succeeds and config is
> written to prefs.js. Ha-ha! Gotcha motherfucker! Your stupid front end
> validation didn't think of that!

Similar to what I did, but added /etc/hosts entries so i have
localhost localhost2 localhost3 localhost4 and so on. All pointing to
the same IP. :)

Re: [gentoo-user] Creating accounts in Thunderbird

[Michael Mol]

On Mon, Feb 4, 2013 at 2:33 PM, Paul Hartman
<paul.hartman+gentoo@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, Feb 3, 2013 at 11:32 AM, Alan McKinnon <alan.mckinnon@gmail.com> wrote:
>> For the first one, host is 127.0.0.1, wizard validates it as saves it as
>> "localhost".
>> For the second one, host is again entered as 172.0.0.1, which is a
>> different string to "localhost", validation succeeds and config is
>> written to prefs.js. Ha-ha! Gotcha motherfucker! Your stupid front end
>> validation didn't think of that!
>
> Similar to what I did, but added /etc/hosts entries so i have
> localhost localhost2 localhost3 localhost4 and so on. All pointing to
> the same IP. :)
>

If you run /sbin/ip route show, you should see this in your routing table:

127.0.0.0/8 via 127.0.0.1 dev lo

You have an entire /8 devoted to localhost. 127.0.0.1 goes to the same
place as 127.15.0.0, 127.11.10.1, etc...


--
:wq

Re: [gentoo-user] Creating accounts in Thunderbird

[Tanstaafl]

On 2013-02-03 9:08 AM, Alan McKinnon <alan.mckinnon@gmail.com> wrote:
> So what we have here is a piece of FOSS software that is too fucking
> clever for it's own good. It's applying insane validation checks to
> things that are not in any spec at all:

I never liked the auto-config behavior, but it isn't *that* bad...

You weren't clear on the exact steps you were taking...

Are you leaving the password field blank and the 'remember password'. 
checkbox unchecked? If you enter a password, it will absolutely try to 
verify it...

Also, I've never set up an account on localhost, but I know you can set 
up multiple accounts on the same hostname, so I don't see why you 
couldn't set up multiple accounts on just plain 'localhost'...

Re: [gentoo-user] Creating accounts in Thunderbird

[Alan McKinnon]

On 07/02/2013 17:55, Tanstaafl wrote:
> On 2013-02-03 9:08 AM, Alan McKinnon <alan.mckinnon@gmail.com> wrote:
>> So what we have here is a piece of FOSS software that is too fucking
>> clever for it's own good. It's applying insane validation checks to
>> things that are not in any spec at all:
> 
> I never liked the auto-config behavior, but it isn't *that* bad...
> 
> You weren't clear on the exact steps you were taking...
> 
> Are you leaving the password field blank and the 'remember password'.
> checkbox unchecked? If you enter a password, it will absolutely try to
> verify it...

Both ways, with and without a password entered.

Enter a password, the wizard tries to validate it
Don't enter a password, the wizard prompts you for one
Get past that (using $MAGIC of course) it still tries to validate that
the server is up and something is running there.

The only way round that is to take the app offline whereupon it sensibly
doesn't try validate things that are online. This naturally will be
tagged as a bug as obviously the wizard should never even start whilst
offline </vicious biting sarcasm>

> Also, I've never set up an account on localhost, but I know you can set
> up multiple accounts on the same hostname, so I don't see why you
> couldn't set up multiple accounts on just plain 'localhost'...

You can set up many accounts on localhost, but that's not what I said.
It's complaining about the combination of username and hostname that is
repeated. Which is silly, as username+hostname is not guaranteed to be a
singleton in any universe.

But none of this matters anymore. I got what I wanted and merely had to
think like a stupid developer[1


-- 
Alan McKinnon
Systems Engineer^W Technician
Infrastructure Services
Internet Solutions

+27 11 575 7585


-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan.mckinnon@gmail.com

Re: [gentoo-user] Creating accounts in Thunderbird

[Tanstaafl]

On 2013-02-07 3:28 PM, Alan McKinnon <alan.mckinnon@gmail.com> wrote:
> Enter a password, the wizard tries to validate it
> Don't enter a password, the wizard prompts you for one
> Get past that (using $MAGIC of course) it still tries to validate that
> the server is up and something is running there.
>
> The only way round that is to take the app offline whereupon it sensibly
> doesn't try validate things that are online. This naturally will be
> tagged as a bug as obviously the wizard should never even start whilst
> offline </vicious biting sarcasm>

Just fyi, I had no problem doing this:

1. Add Mail Account

2. Add Name and EMail address

3. Leave password blank, uncheck 'Remember password'

4. Hit Continue, then immediatley hit 'Manual Config'

5. Finish configging, being sure manually set anything set to 'Auto' (as 
this is telling Thunderbird to do it for you) - ie, the 
SSL/Port/Authenticiation settings. Leaving any of these set to Auto will 
keep the 'Done' button greyed out.

6. Click Done.

> You can set up many accounts on localhost, but that's not what I said.
> It's complaining about the combination of username and hostname that is
> repeated.

If you mean, identical usernames and incoming hostnames, then yes, 
Thunderbird doesn't like that, and I'm honestly trying to think of a 
reason why you would want two identical accounts set up in the same 
client? What am I missing?

> Which is silly, as username+hostname is not guaranteed to be a
> singleton in any universe.

? I can't think of any way that username+incoming-hostname can result in 
anything other than a single, individual users account, so I guess I'm 
totally missing what you are saying.

[gentoo-user] Re: Creating accounts in Thunderbird

[walt]

On 02/03/2013 03:51 AM, Alan McKinnon wrote:
> How do I get Thunderbird to act like software and not assume it knows
> better than I do?

Same way you get your wife to do what you want :)

The confusing part about thunderbird account creation is that there's
more than one way to create a new account, and they are not equivalent,
not by a country kilometer (yes, I consider that bug, or maybe a very
stupid feature).

F'rinstance, how do you create a new nntp account?  IIRC you can't if
you're using tbird for the first time.  I think the only way to do it
is *after* you've already set up a working email account, then click
on Edit::Account Settings and look all the way to the bottom of the
list box on the left to the button marked "Account Actions".

I'm no longer using the gentoo ebuild for thunderbird; instead I'm using
the beta-test builds from ftp.mozilla.org.  (Hm, now that I stop to think
about why I do that, I realize that it's a really dumb thing to do because
I gave up filing thunderbird bug reports about two years ago because none
of my bugs ever got fixed.)

So, I dunno if I've helped you but you've convinced me to go back to using
thunderbird-stable.

Thanks Alan!

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Creating accounts in Thunderbird

[Alan McKinnon]

On 08/02/2013 01:43, walt wrote:
> On 02/03/2013 03:51 AM, Alan McKinnon wrote:
>> How do I get Thunderbird to act like software and not assume it knows
>> better than I do?
> 
> Same way you get your wife to do what you want :)

Oh no, not that, that's unpossible :-)

> 
> The confusing part about thunderbird account creation is that there's
> more than one way to create a new account, and they are not equivalent,
> not by a country kilometer (yes, I consider that bug, or maybe a very
> stupid feature).
> 
> F'rinstance, how do you create a new nntp account?  IIRC you can't if
> you're using tbird for the first time.  I think the only way to do it
> is *after* you've already set up a working email account, then click
> on Edit::Account Settings and look all the way to the bottom of the
> list box on the left to the button marked "Account Actions".
> 
> I'm no longer using the gentoo ebuild for thunderbird; instead I'm using
> the beta-test builds from ftp.mozilla.org.  (Hm, now that I stop to think
> about why I do that, I realize that it's a really dumb thing to do because
> I gave up filing thunderbird bug reports about two years ago because none
> of my bugs ever got fixed.)
> 
> So, I dunno if I've helped you but you've convinced me to go back to using
> thunderbird-stable.

I thinkt he Thunderbird devs (the ones working on the wizard and account
creation) got into a frame of mind of "my work flow about new accounts
works just fine, so let's make it universal". I see this stupidity in
corproate software all the time, I never thought it would appear in
widespread FLOSS though.

Once you get past that barrier, it's actually a fine mail client. IMAP
works fast and fine, it doesn't have Exchange plugins that continually
crash the system (hello Evolution) and the indexer is a good feature
that works for me.

Now that's I've thought about it lots, I'm actually prepared to 100%
forgive Thunderbird for it's wizard just because of this one fact:

It has no akonadi and that concept does not exist in Thunderbird.

:-)


-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan.mckinnon@gmail.com

Re: [gentoo-user] Creating accounts in Thunderbird

[Alan McKinnon]

On 07/02/2013 23:07, Tanstaafl wrote:
>> Which is silly, as username+hostname is not guaranteed to be a
>> singleton in any universe.
> 
> ? I can't think of any way that username+incoming-hostname can result in
> anything other than a single, individual users account, so I guess I'm
> totally missing what you are saying.

 it
A few examples off the top of my head:


1. Two imap servers on the same host running on different ports and no
reason why a user can't have accounts on both servers
2. port forwarding on localhost to a variety of impa servers somewhere
else (port forwarding gets around corporate firewall rules that
Thunderbird can't deal with)
3. Because I can and there's no legitimate reason for a mail client to
get in my way
4. Corporate sysadmins like me use tricks like this all the time to a)
fix real problems b) comply with frantic business requests c) stay
within budget d) get around stupid rules proclaimed by idiot managers
with single figure IQs

There are more valid reasons why this setup can occur and I have a lack
of mentions in RFCs to prove it.
There are no valid reasons for a mail client to get in my way like this
and I have a lack of RFC mentions that allow it to prove

-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan.mckinnon@gmail.com