From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 707161381FB for ; Tue, 25 Dec 2012 22:51:12 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id C2F0B21C094; Tue, 25 Dec 2012 22:50:57 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-gg0-f182.google.com (mail-gg0-f182.google.com [209.85.161.182]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6333A21C010 for ; Tue, 25 Dec 2012 22:49:47 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-gg0-f182.google.com with SMTP id e5so1345016ggh.27 for ; Tue, 25 Dec 2012 14:49:46 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=x-received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject :references:in-reply-to:x-enigmail-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=Qxkrg4Fml+QqnFCklXNx3N8+3/9kbHGQwlMiK7EOAKs=; b=CGTky9k1YUBidIt4VZccIVPnNPKRCVKkDFf+9uvK8MaDUa4ru9vmSL2Jce0YfKeoh8 NNkLRgDXbWv0m454LAVwLUSO/VMcQ/gmbNI/kQULlN+XobcuggRqDnPopFpAy+FmG4bH MDHFYukGytvzHyiOGLSNWv2ZA74cKHcj5C75jlryqqvmQX9mayXPUwWcCF3m4Cq/+Z7g Np/kf1DYaACBA5eqK0CBWVQJxDLsMIA4v61toqSpwaIcGmtveJg1mseNTtbiHC3NmjNf HfAxPjfm9uew37w5LORB/kcyFjVA0wf5WJuuQuCucoATRicKberI0Dvj8+8r0xYqs/xd tXmA== X-Received: by 10.236.35.131 with SMTP id u3mr24162610yha.12.1356475786518; Tue, 25 Dec 2012 14:49:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.2.5] (adsl-65-0-94-18.jan.bellsouth.net. [65.0.94.18]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id u49sm22784474yhd.18.2012.12.25.14.49.44 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 25 Dec 2012 14:49:45 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <50DA2D88.9080806@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2012 16:49:44 -0600 From: Dale User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/17.0 SeaMonkey/2.14.1 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Anyone switched to eudev yet? References: <20121218163332.7956f31a@khamul.example.com> <87txrd6pb3.fsf@ist.utl.pt> <20121223182037.1553813f@khamul.example.com> <87bodk7lb6.fsf@ist.utl.pt> <20121224085528.56f535ec@khamul.example.com> <50D85167.9060309@gmail.com> <50D85F68.609@gmail.com> <878v8n5w1q.fsf@ist.utl.pt> <20121224162935.GH26547@server> <87hana49jf.fsf@ist.utl.pt> <20121225124658.GR26547@server> <87d2xy467i.fsf@ist.utl.pt> <50D9D6E0.3000205@gmail.com> <874nja3vbv.fsf@ist.utl.pt> <50D9E823.4000603@gmail.com> <87zk122ca1.fsf@ist.utl.pt> In-Reply-To: <87zk122ca1.fsf@ist.utl.pt> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4.6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archives-Salt: 6e236f44-c094-4c01-8260-4a6847f75951 X-Archives-Hash: 7753e1e9d47887684df359b19ee5f9e3 Nuno J. Silva wrote: > On 2012-12-25, Dale wrote: > > > root@fireball / # egrep 'usb-db|pci-db|FROM_DATABASE|/usr' /*/udev/rules.d/* > [...] >> $$D; printf %%03i:%%03i $$B $$D'", RUN+="/bin/sh -c '/usr/bin/python >> /usr/bin/hp-check-plugin -m %c &'" >> /lib/udev/rules.d/86-hpmud_plugin.rules:SUBSYSTEM=="usb", >> ENV{DEVTYPE}=="usb_device", ATTRS{idVendor}=="03f0", >> ATTRS{idProduct}=="??2a", PROGRAM="/bin/sh -c 'X=%k; X=$${X#usbdev}; >> B=$${X%%%%.*}; D=$${X#*.}; logger -p user.info loading HP Device $$B >> $$D; printf %%03i:%%03i $$B $$D'", RUN+="/bin/sh -c '/usr/bin/python >> /usr/bin/hp-check-plugin -m %c &'" >> /lib/udev/rules.d/90-alsa-restore.rules: RUN+="/usr/sbin/alsactl >> restore $attr{number}" >> root@fireball / # >> >> >> Yikes, almost enough for a attachment. >> >> root@fireball / # equery list udev >> * Searching for udev ... >> [IP-] [ ] sys-fs/udev-171-r9:0 >> root@fireball / # > Thanks. So you don't have udev-181, but you already need stuff under > /udev for these rules to work. Which is what that URL is about. Actually, NO. I only built a init thingy to GET READY for the change. I can still boot WITHOUT the init thingy as it is now. I went through this early instead of waiting for the upgrade that leaves me with a machine that may NOT boot or me running around like a chicken with my head cut off to figure out how to fix it. As it was, it took me a couple weeks at least to find a init thingy that works. That is one reason I hate the things. ;-) I suspect you were not around when hal hit the scene. As bad as I hate hal, I think the init thingy has it beat. Trust me, ask anyone on this list, I HATE hal!! If it was physical instead of code, I would use it for target practice. Be nice for my new .44 magnum rifle. :-) > >> I will not allow my system to upgrade to anything listed in the new >> item. I'm not going to chance it. >> >> As to a silent fail. I watch my system really close when booting. If I >> see any error message, I hit Scroll lock and make a note of it. I have >> one now about rc.conf. I have the file in the new place but have not >> rebooted yet to test. So far, I have not seen any error except for >> sound card stuff when booting. Since a sound card is not needed when >> booting, I'm not worried about it. > You happen to understand that the "silent" part in "silent fail" implies > that you won't see any error message? If it wasn't silent, it would not > be called silent fail. > > In fact, I'd say that the article the URL points to was written exactly > because this has been this way for some time, but as the fail is silent, > many people simply don't notice that it fails, and assume that, as far > as the system reachs the login prompt with no visible errors, then > everything is OK. Read above. I can boot withOUT an init thingy still. Also, I check for errors after about every reboot, especially if I have not rebooted in a while. I go through dmesg and other logs looking for anything that is out of place or new. If anything has a issue, I'll find it. That's how I already know about the sound card issue. It doesn't affect me booting and never should. >> Again, this comes to this that has been around for decades. Anything >> needed for booting, should be on the / file system, /bin, /sbin, /lib or >> /etc. Nothing needed for booting should be placed in /usr or /var since >> a lot of people put those on separate file systems, including me. What >> I don't get is this, that has been working for decades so why change >> it? > Then perhaps you should do, for example, > equery belongs '/usr/bin/hp-check-plugin' > equery belongs '/usr/bin/python' > equery belongs '/usr/bin/hp-mkuri' > equery belongs '/usr/sbin/alsactl' > > [and so on, for executables and scripts used in the udev rules the > command found on your system] I already know about them and they do NOT affect me booting. The hp is my printer. The alsactl is my sound card. Again, nothing that affects me booting. My system can boot if my printer is turned off and it also boots without a sound card too. I do want to get me a better card tho. ;-) > And file bugs on these packages (ALSA, python and perhaps some CUPS > drivers?), as these commands are needed for booting (they're called by > udev as soon as there is a device matching the rule) and, so, they > should live under /, not under /usr. > Thing is, upstream is not going to fix it. Lennart, and others, has made it clear, it is their way or go away. This has been discussed a lot over the past year or two. Some have even posted links to postings by the udev/systemd folks. They are not interested in it. It gets marked as 'won't fix' or whatever and that is the end of it. Again, the point is, what has been working for ages is being claimed that it is broken for basically everybody because it suites the ones that want to change it. They use a init thingy to boot their systems, binary based ones I might add, and they want to push the same on us. Gentoo should not need a init thingy unless you have some setup where / is encrypted or something. This is what so many disagree with. I don't want one because they introduce one more point of failure when booting. Just imagine the thread about 3.7.1 SATA errors. If he had a init thingy, he would have to find out what is broken first, the init thingy or the kernel or even worse, BOTH. I run into enough problems from time to time. I do NOT want to add yet one more point of failure, especially given the history of init thingys and me when I was on Mandriva. Been there, done that, don't want to go back either. Just my $0.02 worth. By the way, I do NOT like init thingys. ROFL Dale :-) :-) -- I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words!