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Thu, 18 Apr 2024 05:26:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.8.8.5] ([45.134.140.5]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id v69-20020a25c548000000b00dcf27be1d1bsm343353ybe.28.2024.04.18.05.26.31 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 18 Apr 2024 05:26:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] NAS box and switching from Phenom II X6 1090T to FX-6300 To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org References: <629d72ee-335f-c519-bd1f-2adf3a7b7ae7@gmail.com> <3480914.QJadu78ljV@rogueboard> From: Dale Autocrypt: addr=rdalek1967@gmail.com; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQINBGFSciYBEADcEGMyJBSuavKO/XKUVvgkxck7Nl8Iuu8N2lcnRji/rSKg5c1Acix1ll9i oW8JBCHwvn0+Xy60BvEsqcup3YSHw5STl/bR1ePEehtnYrg8FdjdS91+B805RfnKMm69rFVI wLSBHQrSG1yxHd8CloWoEdhmVtP24buajbh114bgXd9ahtpZrCVMrWdWYUg2mEXguGV5uNAh Rf8SWxDNc79w24JxsV34a8niMUYMjzWr0rafIbzk732X38vGjVMLo/2mMpkbp9mPp++LHoY+ 0Pet8zxxdXPJSCd475kza1AD+hhSyBZXB9yknYWgyY3cZe1rGmooJSi2KX4QxO7npwLThcO1 be6KKRkd35+Fi/a1BzVOHsZMiK/gcwxEFoMd27gir4ehaeHJfFXl+65w4hj0EsOZSxrJrm2C R50g5By2czSKP1bADEygFNpIJj51AR+wM88NImG2RPtlT2maYBzazvF05g65cdHXGp1C7W5P wwwKU2DgABB2t7N7z5A69LnryBRw4zUYDRRYLTYlBlYgg+xILm2c0OrBdxJgLJa7JE50Eo25 d3PFwt9J0gYvqy6sPFLl9So0sDg9zm0hKQtXOP5kgropUFGrNoJI+mjwF4rYLRBVzZwNAvlO OhEvHubBo3mEllv4x+FeptwXZxlk7gUsdqI8AxnFB8K9wi6FVQARAQABtBtEYWxlIDxyZGFs ZWsxOTY3QGdtYWlsLmNvbT6JAk4EEwEIADgCGyMFCwkIBwIGFQoJCAsCBBYCAwECHgECF4AW IQQSG1h01ruv/WNXc3Q3RqOgiQH1GwUCYVJy8gAKCRA3RqOgiQH1G+waEACeTZCt77jnRAmQ AV7otKuZekDWiLi3Eig8tj5ZJiCNSYA/hIxzmexRP0GMqjitcXK1iGwWcvMzzvIq30GAjIfB 4BR38cnXbtBa6fNewiT7QaZe/Hn6yBRldXNQypzbHy+/o27bUEy+oX4rE7etUgEHQAjuw7xz XFWg4tH1/KJvsOVY5upnWc5LdxYhsuQ3dQD4b22GsK0pOBDfb9PiirYM8eGKvrVuq4E/c75z lDDFhINl18lNZ9D0ZFL3IkTjHsAAqFH9uhnnEB8CWdHbBewPEfRaOhBUYWZ3Q8uTkmDgZT8q D9jlvLEdw7Nh2ApdxoepnI/4D+ql2Gr4DtH7SEPydr5gcf1Qr/2bXRb1hAYnIVcbncs/Bm3Z bkRKPVWMfE3Fusa+p5hMzixk0YysMaTHlc7mYRYAEZGnPMXnmcCbetwARU7A0yz1M1kCMOAQ Lsz8KH5kv3cRenMB6SFfjND2JfAK61H5TtnPq3L8noS2ZykRYxq9Nm3X64O1tJojIKBoZFr8 AwYNCvqC6puUyGMuzHPh7jPof8glfrrEKIYUvNPGMDoVX3IGetxh/9l6NcxgFA4JGoR+LS3C zmeNrwlllAe3OEUfKoWVQ+pagpSdM+8hHolaSda4Ys66Z3fCR4ZvcTqfhTAVskpqdXa4isAk 7vTcXu3L499ttywEp7rJTbkCDQRhUnImARAAncUdVhmtRr59zqpTUppKroQYlzR0jv8oa7DG K4gakTAT2N7evnI9wpssmzyVk8VEiLzhnFQ/Ol3FRt6hZCXDJt0clyHOyTfvz/MNFttWuZTc mLpSvmRR6VRjAH+Tz3Eam2xUw3PGuH97BcXQ3NnX3msv1UDxtxxBu6e2YrdeOhrCUSgzokcJ 98ChUNy934cgepPybAI12lSWqVFQ1aG7jExZfiUk+333fPSDbpKoZbTW5YJLXbycmW/C1IWL qYQyNjRWKaGoJtUWFhhmNiOQct7n90aKivNVPavmN+UQ9LlMaINtf9T6XCzLfogCFsulDCDJ 0yNQLDTurHaB4E71xoctgXmLLq9z1RQ0W2XiVAAOZQj6K3+d0AOUjDhCQ2QW8dUSq0ckkZXV DKVJOGS8Nhf2eIWIqRnP3AcUiiaiFGqUaVUmUAZ6h/oJmgghEu/1S+pcuUKU5i69+XCZ3hH2 Jzwzbf7K+FAIkOhCfHncF8i1N1pk00pOVykNnqHTfFo3qFusHt0ZWgXVnnn4pYdXqZNoDhvF BRE5Vm4k/k96Pw8HRx6Os6eFSRrlqGzRgqsu86FekxusXB9UGv4lJhtU/J+8MRWsh22K718s DbQnABicGKFz1qQlWvcf59oTByhLINJCBt1WXl+TzJDXepr3QSkqmK41dO9Hob97C9dMiK8A EQEAAYkCNgQYAQgAIAIbDBYhBBIbWHTWu6/9Y1dzdDdGo6CJAfUbBQJhUnLyAAoJEDdGo6CJ AfUbVHIQAKSWw620vPhR3A/njU2z77F3z/Jk+HTKdE3fIyWSWdkYN7CBFL0NguOMP30WZ+qE sJhZu7T5hf251MwQUUt27xlfnKYOmQs7CqONlXuXlGZI6WufrUjxNcVz+5gJsqvUWuuJWsgg sDmE92IBnfG/f81fPHWQyfr/SF4wYDMyoFp5xCCQpp1zB63iuFvvrhxBkEHzmbRtVDOhl0Xp BVEDR1w3QRACw9QJD/KM05Czv9JNQYlwinWO/OaQ9cMlUpKLgswUPg9IZ5vucxScfuAUA5uC B1jlAQ8ZPlVukBmbEv5RGOv+lpuEbA3YDMVtEeH4YMFbjt/+vH3Cr2vTbp5JlpByLburJEH0 WXZLUawEfUsZvVwpOuJK75vaa2HYXee+Cb3iCIzwfIfctdlqzUcbGRczlRNM59hpvj4z29Gh 3kAxVHItAYq54ikxQ9l4hQ8s9sLYPbX/WtcBxNX8crBSw0FLnmzGleVEtBHyqtt5CLzQNgrj GYWl1vKDUmRPw1CdZ1c+fMN9CY11jOM5B5ZnqZWfDeVYO2iJ5SuvTycChexCb8WYn1bdCBIo bBtga2RBXbVt4Mh9E4owsszefn51MwfjXxB20Fc5k3GU1AVpTCMs3ayYCzo0b2pvEvdjtDcA CYLEFPWgaFX9iQAM/CDfKvTtvgGWpqtCL2raq/mQoJEU Message-ID: <4adbab40-f200-eec1-49a8-1066b7cd7e43@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2024 07:26:30 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/91.0 SeaMonkey/2.53.18.1 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org X-Auto-Response-Suppress: DR, RN, NRN, OOF, AutoReply MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <3480914.QJadu78ljV@rogueboard> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------80A84B05AD95BD46C20B893E" X-Archives-Salt: 34e81c5b-a6ed-4ea0-a52b-35ad9a96bb85 X-Archives-Hash: f1a3c640a05ef17c58d88c3b6a515727 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------80A84B05AD95BD46C20B893E Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Michael wrote: > On Wednesday, 17 April 2024 23:13:40 BST Dale wrote: >> Frank Steinmetzger wrote: >>> Am Wed, Apr 17, 2024 at 01:18:39PM -0400 schrieb Rich Freeman: >>>> On Wed, Apr 17, 2024 at 9:33 AM Dale wrote: >>>>> Rich Freeman wrote: >>>>> >>>> If you don't play games, then definitely get integrated graphics. > I'd add to this, you could still play many games, especially older games using > a modern APU. The integrated graphics capability is broadly comparable with > the entry level discrete GPUs. For driving a couple of monitors and watching > videos an APU is more than adequate, saves money on a graphics card and > consumes less power. > The biggest reason I like a separate video card, I can upgrade if needed.  Built in video means a new mobo.  I'd suspect even the wimpiest video card would do what I need.  The biggest thing, number of ports.  I suspect tho, a built in video will outlast any card I buy.  I almost always buy a card that has some age on it anyway.  The built in video will likely be a LOT newer.  >> I do have Nvidia and I use the Nvidia drivers. Thought about using the >> ones in the kernel but just never did. I don't think it is the video >> card tho. I think some of it is all the hard drives I have installed >> and that they are busy. I run torrent software all the time. It stays >> very busy. I actually set the connection speed to a little lower so >> that I have some network speed that isn't being used so that when I do >> something, I get some network bandwidth. Plus, there's that growing >> software problem that always exists. Software rarely shrinks. >> >>>> That sounds like RAM but I couldn't say for sure. In any case a >>>> modern system will definitely help. > +1 > > In particular it sounds like I/O becomes saturated as swap ramps up. > Also, fstrim, updatedb, rkhunter, etc., running in the background can make > things worse. > I've pretty much disabled swap.  The swappiness setting is set to 0 or 1.  It will use it but it is really out of memory when it does.  My OS and swap is on spinning rust.  When it starts to use swap, it really slows down when switching desktops or something.  I do believe tho that the torrent software keeps the I/O pretty busy.  Maybe I should adjust the nice and ionice for it.  Maybe that would help.  It's one reason I may let it run on my current rig, when new rig is built, instead of my main rig.  Let it slow down a rig I'm not actually using for myself.  I can still hook my backup drives to it for updating those.  >>> Well, is the RAM full? My 10 years old PC has 32 Gigs and still runs very >>> smooth (with Intel integrated graphics). >> Generally, I use about 20 to 25GBs of RAM. Mostly, Seamonkey, Firefox >> and the torrent software. > An 8-core/thread CPU can eat up to 16G of RAM with -j8 and proportionately > more if a higher job number has been configured. > > Torrent can eat up *a lot* of memory, depending how its caching has been set > up. > > Endless tabs on browsers will also eat up RAM, and/or place demand on swap. > Some addons can make things worse, as can a corrupt content-prefs.sqlite file > - see here: > > https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/firefox-uses-too-much-memory-or-cpu-resources > A long time ago, I found that a couple add-ons clashed.  Thing is, I needed both.  So, I created a new profile.  Then came another, and another.  I have one for things like placing orders, banking and other stuff I like to be secure.  It also has that container thing which separates some random web browsing from things like banking.  It has its own set of add-ons.  Then I have one for things like watching youtube, grabbing videos from there and other video related sites to watch later or before they get censored and no longer available.  It has different add-ons.  Then I have another for torrent research.  Each of those requires its own set of add-ons.  By splitting them up tho, there's less chance of a clash.  I like Firefox and the way I have it set up.  As you point out tho, it can get memory hungry.  Given I'm bad to leave tabs open, that makes it even worse.  Sometimes a website causes problems of its own too.  Just like recently in this thread, several people posted links about mobos and such.  Most of those are still open.  I'm trying to push that info into my brain, hoping it will remain there.  Never does but I'm trying.  ROFL  Still, I'd like to be able to use Firefox, check email in Seamonkey and such even while doing OS updates.  Right now, that's risky with this amount of memory.  >> Either way, the age of my current rig is a big reason I want to build a >> new one. It's getting a lot of gray hairs. >> >> Dale >> >> :-) :-) > IMHO the good ol' FX-8350 with a boost of 4.2 GHz and dual channel memory > access is still a very respectable CPU for day to day desktop computing. > Sure, it is inefficient energy wise and it can't compete with high multicore/ > multithreaded CPUs and DDR4/5 RAM modern architectures, if non-stop 24-7 > parallel compiling were a user requirement, but for its age and architecture I > would categorise it as a competent package. Most importantly, it comes > already assembled and with zero additional cost! ;-) > > There were/are a lot corporates throwing out workstations and server spec > towers, since many employees switched to working from home. It may be worth > taking a look at those, if what you are missing at present is a faster/bigger > NAS box. I suspect that if I moved the torrent software to the NAS box rig, it would improve things a good bit, as far as responsiveness anyway.  Still, this old rig is getting some age on it.  It may last another 5 or 10 years.  It may not.  Given that I depend on having a rig pretty much 24/7, a new rig has to be done.  I'm past due anyway.  You are right tho, this CPU is still a nice rig for desktop use for most people.  I suspect someone who just pays bills, checks email and such would be very happy with a rig like this, just without all the hard drives of course.  Well, today is Doctor day.  Gotta go get my shots.  At least it isn't raining.  I also replaced the A/C compressor in my car.  I can be comfortable on the way there and back.  That's good.  :-D  Dale :-)  :-)  --------------80A84B05AD95BD46C20B893E Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Michael wrote:
On Wednesday, 17 April 2024 23:13:40 BST Dale wrote:

Frank Steinmetzger wrote:

Am Wed, Apr 17, 2024 at 01:18:39PM -0400 schrieb Rich Freeman:

On Wed, Apr 17, 2024 at 9:33 AM Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:

Rich Freeman wrote:


If you don't play games, then definitely get integrated graphics.

I'd add to this, you could still play many games, especially older games using 
a modern APU.  The integrated graphics capability is broadly comparable with 
the entry level discrete GPUs.  For driving a couple of monitors and watching 
videos an APU is more than adequate, saves money on a graphics card and 
consumes less power.

The biggest reason I like a separate video card, I can upgrade if needed.  Built in video means a new mobo.  I'd suspect even the wimpiest video card would do what I need.  The biggest thing, number of ports.  I suspect tho, a built in video will outlast any card I buy.  I almost always buy a card that has some age on it anyway.  The built in video will likely be a LOT newer.  


I do have Nvidia and I use the Nvidia drivers.  Thought about using the
ones in the kernel but just never did.  I don't think it is the video
card tho.  I think some of it is all the hard drives I have installed
and that they are busy.  I run torrent software all the time.  It stays
very busy.  I actually set the connection speed to a little lower so
that I have some network speed that isn't being used so that when I do
something, I get some network bandwidth.  Plus, there's that growing
software problem that always exists.  Software rarely shrinks. 


That sounds like RAM but I couldn't say for sure.  In any case a
modern system will definitely help.

+1

In particular it sounds like I/O becomes saturated as swap ramps up.
Also, fstrim, updatedb, rkhunter, etc., running in the background can make 
things worse.

I've pretty much disabled swap.  The swappiness setting is set to 0 or 1.  It will use it but it is really out of memory when it does.  My OS and swap is on spinning rust.  When it starts to use swap, it really slows down when switching desktops or something.  I do believe tho that the torrent software keeps the I/O pretty busy.  Maybe I should adjust the nice and ionice for it.  Maybe that would help.  It's one reason I may let it run on my current rig, when new rig is built, instead of my main rig.  Let it slow down a rig I'm not actually using for myself.  I can still hook my backup drives to it for updating those.  



        

          

            
Well, is the RAM full? My 10 years old PC has 32 Gigs and still runs very
smooth (with Intel integrated graphics).


          

          
Generally, I use about 20 to 25GBs of RAM.  Mostly, Seamonkey, Firefox
and the torrent software. 


        

        
An 8-core/thread CPU can eat up to 16G of RAM with -j8 and proportionately 
more if a higher job number has been configured.

Torrent can eat up *a lot* of memory, depending how its caching has been set 
up.

Endless tabs on browsers will also eat up RAM, and/or place demand on swap.  
Some addons can make things worse, as can a corrupt content-prefs.sqlite file 
- see here:

https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/firefox-uses-too-much-memory-or-cpu-resources



      

    

    

    A long time ago, I found that a couple add-ons clashed.  Thing is, I
    needed both.  So, I created a new profile.  Then came another, and
    another.  I have one for things like placing orders, banking and
    other stuff I like to be secure.  It also has that container thing
    which separates some random web browsing from things like banking. 
    It has its own set of add-ons.  Then I have one for things like
    watching youtube, grabbing videos from there and other video related
    sites to watch later or before they get censored and no longer
    available.  It has different add-ons.  Then I have another for
    torrent research.  Each of those requires its own set of add-ons. 
    By splitting them up tho, there's less chance of a clash.  

    

    I like Firefox and the way I have it set up.  As you point out tho,
    it can get memory hungry.  Given I'm bad to leave tabs open, that
    makes it even worse.  Sometimes a website causes problems of its own
    too.  Just like recently in this thread, several people posted links
    about mobos and such.  Most of those are still open.  I'm trying to
    push that info into my brain, hoping it will remain there.  Never
    does but I'm trying.  ROFL  

    

    Still, I'd like to be able to use Firefox, check email in Seamonkey
    and such even while doing OS updates.  Right now, that's risky with
    this amount of memory.  

    

    

    

      

        

        

          
Either way, the age of my current rig is a big reason I want to build a
new one.  It's getting a lot of gray hairs. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 


        

        
IMHO the good ol' FX-8350 with a boost of 4.2 GHz and dual channel memory 
access is still a very respectable CPU for day to day desktop computing.  
Sure, it is inefficient energy wise and it can't compete with high multicore/
multithreaded CPUs and DDR4/5 RAM modern architectures, if non-stop 24-7 
parallel compiling were a user requirement, but for its age and architecture I 
would categorise it as a competent package.  Most importantly, it comes 
already assembled and with zero additional cost! ;-)

There were/are a lot corporates throwing out workstations and server spec 
towers, since many employees switched to working from home.  It may be worth 
taking a look at those, if what you are missing at present is a faster/bigger 
NAS box.

      

    

    

    

    I suspect that if I moved the torrent software to the NAS box rig,
    it would improve things a good bit, as far as responsiveness
    anyway.  Still, this old rig is getting some age on it.  It may last
    another 5 or 10 years.  It may not.  Given that I depend on having a
    rig pretty much 24/7, a new rig has to be done.  I'm past due
    anyway.  

    

    You are right tho, this CPU is still a nice rig for desktop use for
    most people.  I suspect someone who just pays bills, checks email
    and such would be very happy with a rig like this, just without all
    the hard drives of course.  

    

    Well, today is Doctor day.  Gotta go get my shots.  At least it
    isn't raining.  I also replaced the A/C compressor in my car.  I can
    be comfortable on the way there and back.  That's good.  :-D  

    

    Dale 

    

    :-)  :-)  

  


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