Michael wrote: > On Wednesday, 17 April 2024 23:13:40 BST Dale wrote: >> Frank Steinmetzger wrote: >>> Am Wed, Apr 17, 2024 at 01:18:39PM -0400 schrieb Rich Freeman: >>>> On Wed, Apr 17, 2024 at 9:33 AM Dale wrote: >>>>> Rich Freeman wrote: >>>>> >>>> If you don't play games, then definitely get integrated graphics. > I'd add to this, you could still play many games, especially older games using > a modern APU. The integrated graphics capability is broadly comparable with > the entry level discrete GPUs. For driving a couple of monitors and watching > videos an APU is more than adequate, saves money on a graphics card and > consumes less power. > The biggest reason I like a separate video card, I can upgrade if needed.  Built in video means a new mobo.  I'd suspect even the wimpiest video card would do what I need.  The biggest thing, number of ports.  I suspect tho, a built in video will outlast any card I buy.  I almost always buy a card that has some age on it anyway.  The built in video will likely be a LOT newer.  >> I do have Nvidia and I use the Nvidia drivers. Thought about using the >> ones in the kernel but just never did. I don't think it is the video >> card tho. I think some of it is all the hard drives I have installed >> and that they are busy. I run torrent software all the time. It stays >> very busy. I actually set the connection speed to a little lower so >> that I have some network speed that isn't being used so that when I do >> something, I get some network bandwidth. Plus, there's that growing >> software problem that always exists. Software rarely shrinks. >> >>>> That sounds like RAM but I couldn't say for sure. In any case a >>>> modern system will definitely help. > +1 > > In particular it sounds like I/O becomes saturated as swap ramps up. > Also, fstrim, updatedb, rkhunter, etc., running in the background can make > things worse. > I've pretty much disabled swap.  The swappiness setting is set to 0 or 1.  It will use it but it is really out of memory when it does.  My OS and swap is on spinning rust.  When it starts to use swap, it really slows down when switching desktops or something.  I do believe tho that the torrent software keeps the I/O pretty busy.  Maybe I should adjust the nice and ionice for it.  Maybe that would help.  It's one reason I may let it run on my current rig, when new rig is built, instead of my main rig.  Let it slow down a rig I'm not actually using for myself.  I can still hook my backup drives to it for updating those.  >>> Well, is the RAM full? My 10 years old PC has 32 Gigs and still runs very >>> smooth (with Intel integrated graphics). >> Generally, I use about 20 to 25GBs of RAM. Mostly, Seamonkey, Firefox >> and the torrent software. > An 8-core/thread CPU can eat up to 16G of RAM with -j8 and proportionately > more if a higher job number has been configured. > > Torrent can eat up *a lot* of memory, depending how its caching has been set > up. > > Endless tabs on browsers will also eat up RAM, and/or place demand on swap. > Some addons can make things worse, as can a corrupt content-prefs.sqlite file > - see here: > > https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/firefox-uses-too-much-memory-or-cpu-resources > A long time ago, I found that a couple add-ons clashed.  Thing is, I needed both.  So, I created a new profile.  Then came another, and another.  I have one for things like placing orders, banking and other stuff I like to be secure.  It also has that container thing which separates some random web browsing from things like banking.  It has its own set of add-ons.  Then I have one for things like watching youtube, grabbing videos from there and other video related sites to watch later or before they get censored and no longer available.  It has different add-ons.  Then I have another for torrent research.  Each of those requires its own set of add-ons.  By splitting them up tho, there's less chance of a clash.  I like Firefox and the way I have it set up.  As you point out tho, it can get memory hungry.  Given I'm bad to leave tabs open, that makes it even worse.  Sometimes a website causes problems of its own too.  Just like recently in this thread, several people posted links about mobos and such.  Most of those are still open.  I'm trying to push that info into my brain, hoping it will remain there.  Never does but I'm trying.  ROFL  Still, I'd like to be able to use Firefox, check email in Seamonkey and such even while doing OS updates.  Right now, that's risky with this amount of memory.  >> Either way, the age of my current rig is a big reason I want to build a >> new one. It's getting a lot of gray hairs. >> >> Dale >> >> :-) :-) > IMHO the good ol' FX-8350 with a boost of 4.2 GHz and dual channel memory > access is still a very respectable CPU for day to day desktop computing. > Sure, it is inefficient energy wise and it can't compete with high multicore/ > multithreaded CPUs and DDR4/5 RAM modern architectures, if non-stop 24-7 > parallel compiling were a user requirement, but for its age and architecture I > would categorise it as a competent package. Most importantly, it comes > already assembled and with zero additional cost! ;-) > > There were/are a lot corporates throwing out workstations and server spec > towers, since many employees switched to working from home. It may be worth > taking a look at those, if what you are missing at present is a faster/bigger > NAS box. I suspect that if I moved the torrent software to the NAS box rig, it would improve things a good bit, as far as responsiveness anyway.  Still, this old rig is getting some age on it.  It may last another 5 or 10 years.  It may not.  Given that I depend on having a rig pretty much 24/7, a new rig has to be done.  I'm past due anyway.  You are right tho, this CPU is still a nice rig for desktop use for most people.  I suspect someone who just pays bills, checks email and such would be very happy with a rig like this, just without all the hard drives of course.  Well, today is Doctor day.  Gotta go get my shots.  At least it isn't raining.  I also replaced the A/C compressor in my car.  I can be comfortable on the way there and back.  That's good.  :-D  Dale :-)  :-)