[gentoo-user] GRUB2 migration

[gentoo-user] GRUB2 migration

[James]

Has anyone seen/tried this guide?

http://dev.gentoo.org/~cardoe/docs/grub2-migration.xml

The devs seem to be moving along with migration to grub2.

as evidence in the gentoo-dev thread. I curious if folks
are going to follow the docs, or are we each going to 
wing out way to grub2 with the legacy installs of gentoo?

curiously,
James

[gentoo-user] Re: GRUB2 migration

[Grant Edwards]

On 2012-07-05, James <wireless@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
> Has anyone seen/tried this guide?
>
> http://dev.gentoo.org/~cardoe/docs/grub2-migration.xml
>
> The devs seem to be moving along with migration to grub2.
>
> as evidence in the gentoo-dev thread. I curious if folks are going to
> follow the docs, or are we each going to wing out way to grub2 with
> the legacy installs of gentoo?

I plan on dragging my feet for as long as possible, and won't switch
until I'm forced to.  And by "forced to" I mean that grub-legacy
simply won't work anymore -- regardless of whether there's a Gentoo
package for it or not.

-- 
Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! I want EARS!  I want
                                  at               two ROUND BLACK EARS
                              gmail.com            to make me feel warm
                                                   'n secure!!

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: GRUB2 migration

[Sebastian Pipping]

Hello,


On 07/05/2012 08:28 PM, Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2012-07-05, James <wireless@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
>> Has anyone seen/tried this guide?
>>
>> http://dev.gentoo.org/~cardoe/docs/grub2-migration.xml
>>
>> The devs seem to be moving along with migration to grub2.
>>
>> as evidence in the gentoo-dev thread. I curious if folks are going to
>> follow the docs, or are we each going to wing out way to grub2 with
>> the legacy installs of gentoo?
> 
> I plan on dragging my feet for as long as possible, and won't switch
> until I'm forced to.  And by "forced to" I mean that grub-legacy
> simply won't work anymore -- regardless of whether there's a Gentoo
> package for it or not.

a few weeks ago I was one of those people about to stay away from GRUB 2
as long as possible.  What I didn't know is that part of what I knew and
disliked about GRUB 2 was (only) specific to Debian, the fact that you
no longer edit /etc/grub/grub.cfg directly: you edit parts that are
combined for you.

Short version: if it's fear of the unknown with you too, I recommend
getting to know that beast a little better.  You'll either end up with
many good arguments against it or find out that it's better than you
expected in the beginning.  My guess is the latter.  Anyway.  Give it a try.

Best,



Sebastian

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: GRUB2 migration

[Dale]

Sebastian Pipping wrote:
> Hello,
>
>
> On 07/05/2012 08:28 PM, Grant Edwards wrote:
>> On 2012-07-05, James <wireless@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
>>> Has anyone seen/tried this guide?
>>>
>>> http://dev.gentoo.org/~cardoe/docs/grub2-migration.xml
>>>
>>> The devs seem to be moving along with migration to grub2.
>>>
>>> as evidence in the gentoo-dev thread. I curious if folks are going to
>>> follow the docs, or are we each going to wing out way to grub2 with
>>> the legacy installs of gentoo?
>> I plan on dragging my feet for as long as possible, and won't switch
>> until I'm forced to.  And by "forced to" I mean that grub-legacy
>> simply won't work anymore -- regardless of whether there's a Gentoo
>> package for it or not.
> a few weeks ago I was one of those people about to stay away from GRUB 2
> as long as possible.  What I didn't know is that part of what I knew and
> disliked about GRUB 2 was (only) specific to Debian, the fact that you
> no longer edit /etc/grub/grub.cfg directly: you edit parts that are
> combined for you.
>
> Short version: if it's fear of the unknown with you too, I recommend
> getting to know that beast a little better.  You'll either end up with
> many good arguments against it or find out that it's better than you
> expected in the beginning.  My guess is the latter.  Anyway.  Give it a try.
>
> Best,
>
>
>
> Sebastian
>
>


I been reading up on this beast too.  The commands and such appear to be
specific to Gentoo OR at least different from Kubuntu.  My money is on
Kubuntu being weird.  On my bro's Kubuntu I run grub-update but on
Gentoo it is grub-mkconfig or something to that effect.  I noticed that
with Gentoo there is a option on the tail end too.  With Kubuntu there
is no options or at least none needed anyway. 

I'm waiting on new/more docs myself.  I want to know not only how to
upgrade but how to fix if it pukes on my keyboard.  Hopefully other than
chroot'in in and all.  I have a lot of partitions and they are on LVM
right now.  That chroot'in is a pain in the butt.  Oh, LOTS of stuff in
/usr too so it has to be mounted for you to fix grub.  <  sighs >

Dale

:-)  :-) 

-- 
I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words!

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: GRUB2 migration

[Peter Humphrey]

On Friday 06 July 2012 00:20:15 Dale wrote:
> Sebastian Pipping wrote:
---->8
> > Short version: if it's fear of the unknown with you too, I
> > recommend getting to know that beast a little better.  You'll
> > either end up with many good arguments against it or find out that
> > it's better than you expected in the beginning.  My guess is the
> > latter.  Anyway.  Give it a try.

Good advice. I don't intend to go the GRUB2 way though until I have to, 
simply because GRUB ain't broke so I don't need to fix it.

---->8
> I'm waiting on new/more docs myself.  I want to know not only how to
> upgrade but how to fix if it pukes on my keyboard.  Hopefully other
> than chroot'in in and all.  I have a lot of partitions and they are
> on LVM right now.  That chroot'in is a pain in the butt.  Oh, LOTS
> of stuff in /usr too so it has to be mounted for you to fix grub.

I have what seems to be an unusual solution of that problem. Each of my 
boxes has a small, bootable rescue system in its own partition, and of 
course its own entry in grub.conf. Its fstab defines all the main-system 
partitions so I only have to mount them. Chrooting is as painless as it 
can be.

Recently, since I've banished ~amd64 except in a few cases, I've only 
used any of the rescue systems for backing up its main system to a USB 
drive.

-- 
Rgds
Peter

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: GRUB2 migration

[Dale]

Peter Humphrey wrote:
>
>> I'm waiting on new/more docs myself.  I want to know not only how to
>> upgrade but how to fix if it pukes on my keyboard.  Hopefully other
>> than chroot'in in and all.  I have a lot of partitions and they are
>> on LVM right now.  That chroot'in is a pain in the butt.  Oh, LOTS
>> of stuff in /usr too so it has to be mounted for you to fix grub.
> I have what seems to be an unusual solution of that problem. Each of my 
> boxes has a small, bootable rescue system in its own partition, and of 
> course its own entry in grub.conf. Its fstab defines all the main-system 
> partitions so I only have to mount them. Chrooting is as painless as it 
> can be.
>
> Recently, since I've banished ~amd64 except in a few cases, I've only 
> used any of the rescue systems for backing up its main system to a USB 
> drive.
>

But if you try to boot and the grub menu doesn't come up at all, then
what?  You can't select to boot anything including the rescue system. 

I want to be able to fix whatever happens. Grub has been good to me so
far but I have had a time when after the BIOS was done, I got nothing,
nothing at all.  That would be something I would want to know how to fix
since I can't even boot to get help or search google.  If it isn't
between my ears, I'm toast.  Right now, there is very little grub2
between my ears.  Sometimes there is very little at all between my
ears.  lol 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

-- 
I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words!

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: GRUB2 migration

[Alecks Gates]

On Thu, Jul 5, 2012 at 7:18 PM, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
> Peter Humphrey wrote:
>>
>>> I'm waiting on new/more docs myself.  I want to know not only how to
>>> upgrade but how to fix if it pukes on my keyboard.  Hopefully other
>>> than chroot'in in and all.  I have a lot of partitions and they are
>>> on LVM right now.  That chroot'in is a pain in the butt.  Oh, LOTS
>>> of stuff in /usr too so it has to be mounted for you to fix grub.
>> I have what seems to be an unusual solution of that problem. Each of my
>> boxes has a small, bootable rescue system in its own partition, and of
>> course its own entry in grub.conf. Its fstab defines all the main-system
>> partitions so I only have to mount them. Chrooting is as painless as it
>> can be.
>>
>> Recently, since I've banished ~amd64 except in a few cases, I've only
>> used any of the rescue systems for backing up its main system to a USB
>> drive.
>>
>
> But if you try to boot and the grub menu doesn't come up at all, then
> what?  You can't select to boot anything including the rescue system.
>
> I want to be able to fix whatever happens. Grub has been good to me so
> far but I have had a time when after the BIOS was done, I got nothing,
> nothing at all.  That would be something I would want to know how to fix
> since I can't even boot to get help or search google.  If it isn't
> between my ears, I'm toast.  Right now, there is very little grub2
> between my ears.  Sometimes there is very little at all between my
> ears.  lol
>
> Dale
>
> :-)  :-)
>
> --
> I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words!
>
>

I like to keep a copy of "Super Grub[2] Disk" around:

http://www.supergrubdisk.org/

Never heard of "rescatux" until now, but that looks interesting.

[gentoo-user] Re: GRUB2 migration

[walt]

On 07/05/2012 04:20 PM, Dale wrote:
 
> 
> I'm waiting on new/more docs myself.  I want to know not only how to
> upgrade but how to fix if it pukes on my keyboard.  Hopefully other than
> chroot'in in and all.

There are basically only two ways that grub2 or grub1 can fail:

First, you reboot and you don't even see a grub prompt because
the grub part of your boot sector is broken in some way. I think
the only practical way is to reinstall grub to the boot sector
of your boot disk, which probably involves booting from another
medium like a rescue CD, etc.

Second, you reboot and see a valid grub shell prompt but your
list of boot selections is missing for some reason.

In that case I've been able to bail out very simply by typing
various grub shell commands until I re-discover the right disk
in case the BIOS disk numbering has changed for some reason.

You do have to know the grub shell commands pretty well to get
away with that, though.  The way to learn them is to hit 'c'
at the grub menu to drop into the grub shell mode and keep
hitting 'tab' to see a list of available commands wherever
you happen to be at the time.  Just like legacy grub.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: GRUB2 migration

[Dale]

walt wrote:
> On 07/05/2012 04:20 PM, Dale wrote:
>  
>> I'm waiting on new/more docs myself.  I want to know not only how to
>> upgrade but how to fix if it pukes on my keyboard.  Hopefully other than
>> chroot'in in and all.
> There are basically only two ways that grub2 or grub1 can fail:
>
> First, you reboot and you don't even see a grub prompt because
> the grub part of your boot sector is broken in some way. I think
> the only practical way is to reinstall grub to the boot sector
> of your boot disk, which probably involves booting from another
> medium like a rescue CD, etc.
>
> Second, you reboot and see a valid grub shell prompt but your
> list of boot selections is missing for some reason.
>
> In that case I've been able to bail out very simply by typing
> various grub shell commands until I re-discover the right disk
> in case the BIOS disk numbering has changed for some reason.
>
> You do have to know the grub shell commands pretty well to get
> away with that, though.  The way to learn them is to hit 'c'
> at the grub menu to drop into the grub shell mode and keep
> hitting 'tab' to see a list of available commands wherever
> you happen to be at the time.  Just like legacy grub.
>
>
>
>


The way it broke for me was when I updated grub but didn't update the
MBR.  I found that out after I rebooted.  It was in one of those ewarn
messages thingys.  It's nice to see those after the fact tho.  ;-) 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

-- 
I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words!

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: GRUB2 migration

[Peter Humphrey]

On Friday 06 July 2012 01:18:42 Dale wrote:

> But if you try to boot and the grub menu doesn't come up at all, then
> what?  You can't select to boot anything including the rescue system.

Yet to happen, but if it did I'd have to boot a rescue CD, mount the 
rescue system and chroot to it, rerun grub and reboot. Doesn't sound 
like much of a problem to me.

> I want to be able to fix whatever happens. Grub has been good to me
> so far but I have had a time when after the BIOS was done, I got
> nothing, nothing at all.  That would be something I would want to
> know how to fix since I can't even boot to get help or search
> google.  If it isn't between my ears, I'm toast.  Right now, there
> is very little grub2 between my ears.  Sometimes there is very
> little at all between my ears.  lol

Not sure what we're arguing about here. My method suits me, yours you. 
:-)

-- 
Rgds
Peter

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: GRUB2 migration

[Dale]

Peter Humphrey wrote:
> On Friday 06 July 2012 01:18:42 Dale wrote:
>
>> But if you try to boot and the grub menu doesn't come up at all, then
>> what?  You can't select to boot anything including the rescue system.
> Yet to happen, but if it did I'd have to boot a rescue CD, mount the 
> rescue system and chroot to it, rerun grub and reboot. Doesn't sound 
> like much of a problem to me.

It would be for me.  I have my system partitioned out pretty well. 
Since so much stuff has moved to /usr, that means I would have to mount
basically every partition I have.  It's not a problem but as I
mentioned, it is a pain in the butt.  It's also something I would like
to avoid if possible.  That is why I, likely others too, want more info
and docs so that we can rescue ourselves. 


>
>> I want to be able to fix whatever happens. Grub has been good to me
>> so far but I have had a time when after the BIOS was done, I got
>> nothing, nothing at all.  That would be something I would want to
>> know how to fix since I can't even boot to get help or search
>> google.  If it isn't between my ears, I'm toast.  Right now, there
>> is very little grub2 between my ears.  Sometimes there is very
>> little at all between my ears.  lol
> Not sure what we're arguing about here. My method suits me, yours you. 
> :-)
>

Not arguing, just pointing out that things can and do fail and that
having good plans before it happens is a good idea.  Something that hal
taught me in a quick hurry.  Just because something works for most
people doesn't mean we shouldn't plan for a problem. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

-- 
I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words!

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: GRUB2 migration

[Terry]

Plus you don't technically need a menu at all. You can.use the grub cli to boot whichever partitions you have mind to.

Terry

Peter Humphrey <peter@humphrey.ukfsn.org> wrote:

>On Friday 06 July 2012 01:18:42 Dale wrote:
>
>> But if you try to boot and the grub menu doesn't come up at all, then
>> what?  You can't select to boot anything including the rescue system.
>
>Yet to happen, but if it did I'd have to boot a rescue CD, mount the 
>rescue system and chroot to it, rerun grub and reboot. Doesn't sound 
>like much of a problem to me.
>
>> I want to be able to fix whatever happens. Grub has been good to me
>> so far but I have had a time when after the BIOS was done, I got
>> nothing, nothing at all.  That would be something I would want to
>> know how to fix since I can't even boot to get help or search
>> google.  If it isn't between my ears, I'm toast.  Right now, there
>> is very little grub2 between my ears.  Sometimes there is very
>> little at all between my ears.  lol
>
>Not sure what we're arguing about here. My method suits me, yours you. 
>:-)
>
>-- 
>Rgds
>Peter

-- 
Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: GRUB2 migration

[Terry]

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There are.many good docs on the web about it. Yes much of this is just resistance to change.
-- 
Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Sebastian Pipping <sping@gentoo.org> wrote:

Hello,


On 07/05/2012 08:28 PM, Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2012-07-05, James <wireless@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
>> Has anyone seen/tried this guide?
>>
>> http://dev.gentoo.org/~cardoe/docs/grub2-migration.xml
>>
>> The devs seem to be moving along with migration to grub2.
>>
>> as evidence in the gentoo-dev thread. I curious if folks are going to
>> follow the docs, or are we each going to wing out way to grub2 with
>> the legacy installs of gentoo?
> 
> I plan on dragging my feet for as long as possible, and won't switch
> until I'm forced to. And by "forced to" I mean that grub-legacy
> simply won't work anymore -- regardless of whether there's a Gentoo
> package for it or not.

a few weeks ago I was one of those people about to stay away from GRUB 2
as long as possible. What I didn't know is that part of what I knew and
disliked about GRUB 2 was (only) specific to Debian, the fact that you
no longer edit /etc/grub/grub.cfg directly: you edit parts that are
combined for you.

Short version: if it's fear of the unknown with you too, I recommend
getting to know that beast a little better. You'll either end up with
many good arguments against it or find out that it's better than you
expected in the beginning. My guess is the latter. Anyway. Give it a try.

Best,



Sebastian


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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: GRUB2 migration

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Thu, 05 Jul 2012 20:17:53 -0500, Dale wrote:

> > Yet to happen, but if it did I'd have to boot a rescue CD, mount the 
> > rescue system and chroot to it, rerun grub and reboot. Doesn't sound 
> > like much of a problem to me.  
> 
> It would be for me.  I have my system partitioned out pretty well. 
> Since so much stuff has moved to /usr, that means I would have to mount
> basically every partition I have.  It's not a problem but as I
> mentioned, it is a pain in the butt.

Then put a shell script in the root filesystem to do it all for you. that
way you get to type the commands when you are not in a panic about losing
all your data and only have to run one command when you are.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Does the name Pavlov ring a bell?

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: GRUB2 migration

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Thu, 05 Jul 2012 18:20:15 -0500, Dale wrote:

> I been reading up on this beast too.  The commands and such appear to be
> specific to Gentoo OR at least different from Kubuntu.  My money is on
> Kubuntu being weird.  On my bro's Kubuntu I run grub-update but on
> Gentoo it is grub-mkconfig or something to that effect.

grub-update is just a one line shell script that runs

grub2-mkconfig -o /boot/grub2/grub.cfg


-- 
Neil Bothwick

We are phasing in a "paperless office," starting with the restrooms.

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: GRUB2 migration

[Dale]

Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Thu, 05 Jul 2012 20:17:53 -0500, Dale wrote:
>
>>> Yet to happen, but if it did I'd have to boot a rescue CD, mount the 
>>> rescue system and chroot to it, rerun grub and reboot. Doesn't sound 
>>> like much of a problem to me.  
>> It would be for me.  I have my system partitioned out pretty well. 
>> Since so much stuff has moved to /usr, that means I would have to mount
>> basically every partition I have.  It's not a problem but as I
>> mentioned, it is a pain in the butt.
> Then put a shell script in the root filesystem to do it all for you. that
> way you get to type the commands when you are not in a panic about losing
> all your data and only have to run one command when you are.
>
>


That would work until I moved something around.  Then, back to the
drawing board.  I draw on the drawing board a lot tho.  ;-)

Dale

:-)  :-) 

-- 
I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words!

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: GRUB2 migration

[Dale]

Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Thu, 05 Jul 2012 18:20:15 -0500, Dale wrote:
>
>> I been reading up on this beast too.  The commands and such appear to be
>> specific to Gentoo OR at least different from Kubuntu.  My money is on
>> Kubuntu being weird.  On my bro's Kubuntu I run grub-update but on
>> Gentoo it is grub-mkconfig or something to that effect.
> grub-update is just a one line shell script that runs
>
> grub2-mkconfig -o /boot/grub2/grub.cfg
>
>


I should have bet money on Kubuntu.  lol   I sort of figured that Gentoo
was following upstream so that sort of left Kubuntu out of the water or
maybe downstream.  It's to early for thinking right now. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

-- 
I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words!