From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org ([208.92.234.80] helo=lists.gentoo.org) by finch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1RyoPb-0000xv-M0 for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Sat, 18 Feb 2012 17:49:37 +0000 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 73F65E0C7F; Sat, 18 Feb 2012 17:49:21 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-yw0-f53.google.com (mail-yw0-f53.google.com [209.85.213.53]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E698EE0F79 for ; Sat, 18 Feb 2012 17:48:15 +0000 (UTC) Received: by yhjj72 with SMTP id j72so2689686yhj.40 for ; Sat, 18 Feb 2012 09:48:15 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of rdalek1967@gmail.com designates 10.236.80.39 as permitted sender) client-ip=10.236.80.39; Authentication-Results: mr.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of rdalek1967@gmail.com designates 10.236.80.39 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=rdalek1967@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=rdalek1967@gmail.com Received: from mr.google.com ([10.236.80.39]) by 10.236.80.39 with SMTP id j27mr20163354yhe.92.1329587295499 (num_hops = 1); Sat, 18 Feb 2012 09:48:15 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:x-enigmail-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=dVkN7wA0H6frHcmdOKnXhDhq6MCpUDrIDfJY3MvQbLU=; b=Q0D+1e0FmFsX0BOAZnhyo7b99Zh75NH8SPh9QttI1g5I99J+5OcQv3yfLeTXErM48k MbU3ffsjIdQRvd2g6SqAzUpMhnb2CIW6nbTJKqfITaYkWWmHJA3DGfTXbsQauMzokPQj bGpLDR5pqghIMrMVcG047QIqBfv5MPkkB3KUA= Received: by 10.236.80.39 with SMTP id j27mr15462204yhe.92.1329587295422; Sat, 18 Feb 2012 09:48:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.2.5] (adsl-98-95-147-47.jan.bellsouth.net. [98.95.147.47]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id j2sm20180016ani.19.2012.02.18.09.48.13 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sat, 18 Feb 2012 09:48:14 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <4F3FE45C.3030401@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2012 11:48:12 -0600 From: Dale User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:10.0.1) Gecko/20120218 Firefox/10.0.1 SeaMonkey/2.7.1 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Somewhat OT: Any truth to this mess? References: <4F3F7CBA.9020600@gmail.com> <20120218124409.43286f16@khamul.example.com> <4F3F92C0.3060506@gmail.com> <1971113.3a2zZ3o5ps@localhost> <4F3F9BFF.9070104@gmail.com> <20120218164058.65c82d3d@khamul.example.com> <4F3FC50B.3010001@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.3.5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archives-Salt: 85c3d5e1-a9d1-4875-95ee-26f7b3c84d99 X-Archives-Hash: 8ff1440cec35c00327f4b9fabf7cca43 Michael Mol wrote: > On Sat, Feb 18, 2012 at 10:34 AM, Dale wrote: >> Alan McKinnon wrote: >>> On Sat, 18 Feb 2012 06:39:27 -0600 >>> Dale wrote: >>> >>>> Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: >>>>> Am Samstag, 18. Februar 2012, 06:00:00 schrieb Dale: >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I don't really think they can unless they just cut power to all the >>>>>> computers. After all, the internet is supposed to be redundant >>>>>> right? If there is a few computers still running that have a >>>>>> connection, it is still working. Sort of anyway. >>>>>> >>>>>> Does make one wonder tho. They have been talking about having a >>>>>> internet "off switch" but I'm not sure it would be that easy. >>>>> >>>>> basically, yes. Take down the core routers and backbones and >>>>> everything falls apart. >>>>> >>>> >>>> But how long would it take to actually do this? >>>> >>>> Another thing, the Government, especially the military, uses the >>>> internet too. >>> >>> Not quite. They use the same internet *technology* you do, not >>> necessarily the same internet *devices*. >>> >>> >> >> >> What about banks? Credit cards? Heck, even food stamp cards? Would >> phones work? I'm not just thinking about Vonage or Skype either. > > Banks, credit cards, etc. mostly operate on leased lines (Think T1, > T2, T3...) and landlines (point-of-sale vending, though that's > changing. ATMs also operate on landlines, and I don't believe that's > changing.). > > You'd still have access to your money. You'd just have to go to a bank > branch or an ATM. > > This whole thread is full panicked reasoning. The biggest risk we face > is a scenario like Iran or Egypt's, where the government requires > controls on border routers. Most likely, they'd do it at the ISP > level, not at the core router level. That said, they could conceivably > demand core router operators acquiesce to their demands, but the worst > you're likely to see there is some network blocks' being dropped > offline. > > And it's not so easy to take the Internet down with injected BGP > routes any more, either; most network operators apply some sort of > filtering. > That has been my thinking all along. I don't think it would shut down quietly if it can be done at all. I was just curious as to what we would lose if it did go down. As to the cards, I know when I go to a store that is a Mom and Pop, they use dial-up. They may connect directly to the bank but it dials something. I mostly think two things. 1: The Government would have a very hard time shutting down the internet especially globally. 2: If it did and I was the Pres, I'd go find me a bunker. I can picture pitch forks, torches and some really pissed off people. Dale :-) :-) -- I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words! Miss the compile output? Hint: EMERGE_DEFAULT_OPTS="--quiet-build=n"