From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org ([208.92.234.80] helo=lists.gentoo.org) by finch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Rhfk8-0007Fr-2x for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Mon, 02 Jan 2012 11:07:52 +0000 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 6203921C15B; Mon, 2 Jan 2012 11:07:38 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-yw0-f53.google.com (mail-yw0-f53.google.com [209.85.213.53]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1038B21C109 for ; Mon, 2 Jan 2012 11:06:35 +0000 (UTC) Received: by yhjj52 with SMTP id j52so10241418yhj.40 for ; Mon, 02 Jan 2012 03:06:35 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=T6VLK3G5NoAtErsuPj1GCWJ7ea18zah0qHg2NxgJgCE=; b=pkK9VfKWUFmAs7enAhh16/Ijcwp45XaUsBXJhy1m9fjjUemmEMEIZq7LjcRMs905Uo G1+PLQDHzWyKIgovpV/9rcnullGwS/lZr3C9DzrEmbR7oclsiOzCI/esE51LvreVdoHb eCUENaoFK/mffK8pWT326jLkLtGuC46X59OCI= Received: by 10.236.175.36 with SMTP id y24mr61061127yhl.64.1325502395594; Mon, 02 Jan 2012 03:06:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.2.5] (adsl-65-0-65-42.jan.bellsouth.net. [65.0.65.42]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id o7sm68536567yhl.15.2012.01.02.03.06.33 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Mon, 02 Jan 2012 03:06:34 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <4F018FB8.1050001@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2012 05:06:32 -0600 From: Dale User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:7.0.1) Gecko/20111022 Firefox/7.0.1 SeaMonkey/2.4.1 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] emerge --update behavior References: <4F00D521.1030702@orlitzky.com> <4F00DA52.1060504@gmail.com> <20120102115809.5259d3cf@rohan.example.com> <4F0184BB.5010307@gmail.com> <20120102125606.108b752b@rohan.example.com> In-Reply-To: <20120102125606.108b752b@rohan.example.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archives-Salt: 07ccf747-e9a1-4683-ad75-912efd36cd25 X-Archives-Hash: 1464dd48b3d2c61ebad7db7c23ee8f43 Alan McKinnon wrote: > On Mon, 02 Jan 2012 04:19:39 -0600 > Dale wrote: > >> Alan McKinnon wrote: >>> The current behaviour is the correct and expected one - you told >>> portage to emerge something and it did. Why else would you emerge >>> something if you didn't intend it to become a permanent feature of >>> the system and part of world? This has always been the definition >>> of emerge - to make it permanent. If you want to emerge something >>> and NOT have portage put it in world then you must use the -1 >>> option. Remember that emerging something is supposed to be a >>> permanent action that you (as root) intended to happen. If what you >>> intend is something more unusual like a mere test or "just to see >>> what would happen" then you must take additional steps (to make it >>> clear that you are doing something out of the ordinary). It's the >>> same logic as rm uses: the user told the computer to delete a file >>> so the computer did what it was told by it's master and deleted the >>> file. What else would you expect it to do? p.s. before I forget: >>> Happy New Year :-) >> I didn't tell it to add it to the world file tho, I just told it to >> update it hence the option --update. I update things all the time >> but it doesn't mean I want them added to the world file. If I want >> to emerge something and have it added to the world file, I leave the >> -u option out of it, then it should be added because I requested it >> to be emerged not updated. >> >> Example: >> >> emerge phonon >> >> That means I want it emerged on my system and should be added to the >> world file. >> >> emerge -u phonon >> >> That means I want to update/upgrade phonon. I don't want it in my >> world file, just updated. This is the way it worked before --oneshot >> came along. It is not the way it is now but it was that way a good >> while back. >> >> Happy New Year to you too. Mine are getting better. I lost my Dad >> on New Years Day many years ago. It's not the same since. > > The current behaviour seems more logical to me. You also seem to have > gotten used to the old way and can't see past it :-) > > When Zac needs to define when something does, he needs to keep the big > picture in mind to get consistency. So what's the purpose of emerge? > Well, read the DESCRIPTION in the man page: > > ===== > DESCRIPTION > emerge is the definitive command-line interface to the > Portage system. It is primarily used for installing packages, and > emerge can automatically handle any dependencies that the desired > package has. emerge can also update the portage tree, making new and > updated packages available. emerge gracefully handles updating > installed packages to newer releases as well. It handles both source > and binary packages, and it can be used to create binary packages for > distribution. > ===== > > Obviously it must maintain system and the world file to do this. That > is the primary function, everything else is secondary. When emerge > merges something to the live system, it puts everything listed on the > command line into world; everything brought along automagically as > a dep does not go into world. Any changes to that purpose must have a > very good reason. > > Emergeing something puts it in world, we have established that. But > this thing called an "update" does not imply that the packages are not > to go in world - an update is just an update, not "merge this but also > do something weird with world". Actually --update makes little sense > with just individual packages, if they are not already installed they > will be (which is exactly what you get by omitting --update). It does > make a lot of sense when used with system, world, and sets though. > > So it seems to me Zac has removed a peculiar bahaviour and made it much > more consistent: > > When you emerge packages explicitly by name, they go into world always. > The only way to do it differently is to use -1 which tells portage to > not put them in world. > > Makes sense to me. > That's why I fixed the new way to be closer to what I am used to. I added --oneshot to my make.conf. When I really need to add something to world, I just use --select y -nav. To me, that is a lot of extra steps to be "consistent". That works if it is already installed. For those reading, leave off the -n if it is a fresh new install of a package. The -n means to not compile it, just add it to world. You see my dracut post? I *think* I got init thingy to work. O_O It took me a couple months but . . . . Dale :-) :-) -- I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words! Miss the compile output? Hint: EMERGE_DEFAULT_OPTS="--quiet-build=n"