From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org ([208.92.234.80] helo=lists.gentoo.org) by finch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1RV7OG-0005ip-Tc for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Mon, 28 Nov 2011 20:01:25 +0000 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 7D5DA21C281; Mon, 28 Nov 2011 20:00:51 +0000 (UTC) Received: from out3.smtp.messagingengine.com (out3.smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.27]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD46821C04A for ; Mon, 28 Nov 2011 19:58:08 +0000 (UTC) Received: from compute1.internal (compute1.nyi.mail.srv.osa [10.202.2.41]) by gateway1.nyi.mail.srv.osa (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67D9820373 for ; Mon, 28 Nov 2011 14:58:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from frontend1.nyi.mail.srv.osa ([10.202.2.160]) by compute1.internal (MEProxy); Mon, 28 Nov 2011 14:58:08 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=binarywings.net; h=message-id:date:from:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type; s=mesmtp; bh=fmMTF03tXNI9m9nMrsDpb3AH V2o=; b=iKIu6zt/vSqLqMbrQawAOI2F2xPa0G6oKgOKpOBOXHXor+zIJSybhFzj 2WzQYJqx5e40d4qHETCebXnelfa90kWDcMotki2T1kzspYiUCyDbdTEFmaU8e83A yOYVpkx/8Cu9Q0A9HoOejeUi4kxNHQ57Zu39gYE9eIsXNtsSlLY= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=message-id:date:from:mime-version:to :subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type; s=smtpout; bh=fmMT F03tXNI9m9nMrsDpb3AHV2o=; b=o6l47seZEVcbMwA1gRu2G8QJWLF4Tqg5ClQ2 balztB9ZyA3c3l884i4yN85W6MD1JlCJzA+Jfk7o2vz9g5uZb9K+7Dz+4W61NvCr iXfQlI1vPBVOzOb9hPp5rO2aoPgdDNwwMrlergXDcUkwN0C/zIGAp5Nb2DwrViKt k9Yi7fk= X-Sasl-enc: ONbIW+EJOKE5VtOn1bTTi7OwJwBTRycn6fgsT0C1h0sS 1322510285 Received: from [192.168.5.18] (serv.binarywings.net [83.169.5.6]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6929E8E00AA for ; Mon, 28 Nov 2011 14:58:01 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <4ED3E7B5.8090403@binarywings.net> Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 20:57:41 +0100 From: Florian Philipp User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:7.0.1) Gecko/20111031 Thunderbird/7.0.1 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Re: What happened to OpenRC 0.9.6? References: <4ED28F6A.7090606@alyf.net> <1322483386.66469.4.camel@stretch> <4ED3BDD4.4060704@binarywings.net> In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4a1pre Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enig12C0D97E1264298A3686C67F" X-Archives-Salt: ac90d334-b0bd-4879-b92c-833ae775d934 X-Archives-Hash: c0cb94cdeba6a16fdff9ce9cb1068c86 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enig12C0D97E1264298A3686C67F Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Am 28.11.2011 20:16, schrieb Nikos Chantziaras: > On 11/28/2011 06:59 PM, Florian Philipp wrote: >> Am 28.11.2011 17:15, schrieb Nikos Chantziaras: >>> On 11/28/2011 02:29 PM, Albert W. Hopkins wrote: >>>> On Sun, 2011-11-27 at 20:28 +0100, Andrea Conti wrote: >>>>> With 100% repeatability, mind you, which does raise same questions = on >>>>> the amount of testing done before release. Yes, it's ~arch and >>>>> rc_parallel is explicitly marked "experimental", but it's not expec= ted >>>>> to be completely and consistently broken, either. >>>>> >>>>> If that sounds like I'm ranting, it's because I just spent about an= >>>>> hour >>>>> getting three machines affected by this problem back into working >>>>> state. >>>>> >>>>> If anyone still has it installed, it's time to sync and downgrade := ) >>>> >>>> Sorry to add more to the whining but... >>>> >>>> Yes, you are in the testing tree. Yes, as a member of testing, *you= * >>>> expect things will occasionally break, and it is *your* job to test >>>> things, break them, and report bugs. >>> >>> Generally true, but not when something is obviously broken. That mea= ns >>> not even its upstream dev bothered to test it. >>> >>> ~arch is for "we think this works, but please give it a go in case th= ere >>> are problems". It's *not* for "we have no idea if this works because= we >>> didn't even try it once". >> >> Do you have any idea how much time you can spend with the kind of syst= em >> testing you propose? >=20 > About 2 minutes? Enabling the parallel startup thingy and rebooting th= e > machine. There you go :-/ >=20 >=20 Oh, you just want to test the features *you* use, understood. What about *my* (imaginary) issue with rc_depend_strict=3D"YES" or one of the other two dozen parameters you can set there. Not even considering different init scripts in different run levels and so forth. I, for example, start dmcrypt _before_ lvm because all lvm volumes are on one encrypted partition. Do you want that to be tested as well or is your experimental feature more valuable than mine? And that's only the tip of the iceberg. What about all the other scripts and config files which belong to baselayout2? What about all other packages? If the openrc dev has to test his configs, surely the SSH dev also has to because a crashing ssh daemon leaves everyone with a headless server in quite a uncomfortable situation. Let's make a simple example, shall we? Let's say we only want to test all yes/no variables in rc.conf. There are 7 of them. We also remove those two only affecting output and you still have 5. That are 2^5=3D32 combinations that you consider valid and therefore want to be tested. Now we have a dev spending one hour doing nothing but reboots. Even changing each variable (I counted 27 in total) only once takes a lot of time and also different hardware capabilities (like a second network interface). Sorry if that sounded harsh but really, what you want is what Redhat (maybe) does for its releases and those only occur every few years and cost lots of money. Regards, Florian Philipp --------------enig12C0D97E1264298A3686C67F Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.17 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk7T57kACgkQqs4uOUlOuU+90wCfZy5H8j4hghgtTJexwMgFG8p9 mZUAn3tD70seHKjCLZVLQLaptMe71qMb =D84a -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enig12C0D97E1264298A3686C67F--