From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org ([208.92.234.80] helo=lists.gentoo.org) by finch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1RCAyv-0003zp-7B for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Fri, 07 Oct 2011 14:00:57 +0000 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 077EC21C083; Fri, 7 Oct 2011 14:00:47 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail2.viabit.com (mail2.viabit.com [65.246.80.16]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3167F21C058 for ; Fri, 7 Oct 2011 13:59:56 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [172.17.29.14] (unknown [65.213.236.242]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail2.viabit.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7868937ADA for ; Fri, 7 Oct 2011 09:59:55 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=orlitzky.com; s=mail2; t=1317995995; bh=XbKYcx5WhToXlnVfztdkr01AvvKXdY2EdObGTuAN9Sk=; h=Message-ID:Date:From:MIME-Version:To:Subject:References: In-Reply-To:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=nbg14V1Cl7FUbQJiDttqeE7SQjMbwVcmSfxyWPhQIXy4qKUfmwJ1Ri//Y7ZqNQZbt ifkEb3pBFYAOcXpJk4UEeWjtzyBSUrw8jnYglXu/t+/A/q74ORtrUY+NWoE8o0LpvH XJz9ZN7WFkXralEvv0WKbV2iy64GNSP/hV9RnOp8= Message-ID: <4E8F05DA.20905@orlitzky.com> Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2011 09:59:54 -0400 From: Michael Orlitzky User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux x86_64; en-US; rv:1.9.2.20) Gecko/20110923 Lightning/1.0b3pre Thunderbird/3.1.12 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] OT: change and improvement References: <4E8AD6C4.7070901@gmail.com> <20111005162007.GA5820@badass.gateway.2wire.net> <20111005184721.01af0bda@toxic.dbnet> <201110060018.50015.peter@humphrey.ukfsn.org> <20111006102023.4471babe@toxic.dbnet> <4E8E0112.3010208@orlitzky.com> <20111006230040.04f9af0f@toxic.dbnet> <4E8E1C54.4010706@orlitzky.com> <20111007014214.5756f0f5@toxic.dbnet> <4E8E4DE9.8040308@orlitzky.com> <4E8EAC13.5000805@gmx.net> In-Reply-To: <4E8EAC13.5000805@gmx.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archives-Salt: X-Archives-Hash: 2f72f57ecdad096901e45ccccc81d086 On 10/07/2011 03:36 AM, Jonas de Buhr wrote: > Am 07.10.2011 02:55, schrieb Michael Orlitzky: >> On 10/06/11 19:42, Jonas de Buhr wrote: >>>> If we have some grub-legacy and some grub2 installs, >>> why would you do that? >> Eventually, grub2 will be all that's available from portage. At that >> point, I can either, >> >> 1) Install grub2 on some machines. >> >> 2) Maintain grub-legacy (and install media) myself. > > i really don't think thats the way its going to be. i think there will > be grub and grub2 in portage potentially forever. like with python 2 and 3. > > even if not, 2) takes you one cp command and a little bit of disk space > for the grub tarball. Python2 will stick around because most packages (portage!) don't work with python3. Grub doesn't have the same problem. (2) requires me to at least, * Figure out how to build a Gentoo install CD * Fork grub-legacy on our servers somewhere * Test it against all future kernel releases * Document why we're doing this, and how to do the first three steps. >> * Upgrade a bunch of my servers at 4am? > why not choose a convenient time to upgrade? 4am *is* the convenient time to upgrade. >> If you still think it's "not much" then I'd be happy to have you do it >> while I drink margaritas. > no, i still don't think its as much of a big deal as you make of it. > about as much work as a kernel upgrade. let's wait for grub2 to go > stable before you send me that ticket ;) This fails as a debate strategy since you wouldn't have to pay my mortgage and feed me if you screwed up =) Kernel upgrades usually take me a full day. I get to skip most of the documentation step, but have to deal with heterogeneous configs. I'm not saying that this is some huge problem on a cosmic scale, but it is going to waste a day and risk downtime for no user-visible benefit.