From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org ([208.92.234.80] helo=lists.gentoo.org) by finch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1R1rHB-0000DZ-Sf for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Fri, 09 Sep 2011 02:57:10 +0000 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 230A421C184; Fri, 9 Sep 2011 02:56:48 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-yw0-f53.google.com (mail-yw0-f53.google.com [209.85.213.53]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF18E21C032 for ; Fri, 9 Sep 2011 02:55:35 +0000 (UTC) Received: by ywb5 with SMTP id 5so1613549ywb.40 for ; Thu, 08 Sep 2011 19:55:35 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=R8MbMMEFZs+bZsfsK+ab7bObeC97E+kpRz+YY3QsuNU=; b=kQjIUEZ8TiiFL/O6I75ENsu2rpibye2dDAL3HVAqG3e7gEG5drhQmVhRl41Zna+rRE ThuQXmIZQZasRT9Fv5n8cWXFo5b7P/CYTA4kdWVvij3v+Yr/zwIczfHSwENfqnKGBBXw 96bwHQJVvys/LjeAaMtcrfUUeLQFblszgfGCI= Received: by 10.236.176.65 with SMTP id a41mr9208856yhm.72.1315536935032; Thu, 08 Sep 2011 19:55:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.2.5] (adsl-65-0-89-228.jan.bellsouth.net [65.0.89.228]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id s77sm5367061yhe.22.2011.09.08.19.55.32 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 08 Sep 2011 19:55:34 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4E698021.6000906@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2011 21:55:29 -0500 From: Dale User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:6.0) Gecko/20110829 Firefox/6.0 SeaMonkey/2.3.1 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] /dev/sda* missing at boot References: <201108191109.34984.michaelkintzios@gmail.com> <20110907050952.GA2588@linux1> <4E66FFFA.2020600@gmail.com> <201109071923.39954.Dan.Johansson@dmj.nu> <20110907235457.691be720@zaphod.digimed.co.uk> <20110908121151.018c38f3@rohan> <20110908222454.02488e58@rohan> <4E692DA0.9000306@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Archives-Salt: X-Archives-Hash: 7bbe5365766444be12cd5765d3367ada Canek Pel=C3=A1ez Vald=C3=A9s wrote: > On Thu, Sep 8, 2011 at 5:03 PM, Dale wrote: >> Canek Pel=C3=A1ez Vald=C3=A9s wrote: >>> I htink almost everyone understand this. Regards. >> I think you are one of *very* few that understands this. >> >> This reminds me of a old joke. One in four people have a mental issue= . >> Check three friends and if they are OK, you are it. Again, it is a = joke >> but my point is, very few people are liking this. That alone should s= ay a >> lot. > I know, but Open Source has never been a democracy. It is a > meritocracy. No matter how many get upset by a change, the opinions > that matter are from those writing the code. > >> This is a very few people forcing a change that no one wants. > That's a contradiction, isn't it? The "few people" forcing the change > want it, I hope. It's not. So far, one dev made the decision to do this and a few have=20 agreed. There are lots of people, as noted in this thread, that=20 disagree. Some of those people have been using Linux for a very long=20 time. I don't know how long you have been using Linux but I'm pushing=20 ten years myself. I suspect that Neil and Alan, and maybe others, have=20 been using Linux a LOT longer than that. Maybe more than both of us put=20 together. When I see a post by Alan or Neil, I read it carefully. =20 There are Linux idiots in this world but they are not one of them. On=20 some subjects, I fall into the ignorance category. I don't claim to=20 know it all but some things I do know well. > >> You seem to fail to understand that. > I don't agree with the "few people" and the "no one wants" parts. I > understand that this change is upseting some people, but I don't think > you (nor I) can say for sure if it's even a majority of Gentoo users, > and even if it were, again, Open Source is not a democracy. I don't think you quite understood my wording. I think you mentioned=20 English is not your first language so this happens a lot. I hope the=20 above helped. > >> If this "new way" of doing things causes >> someones server to be hacked, I would be looking for that dev that sta= rted >> this mess. I don't run some large server but some on here do and this= is >> important as it gets. > If you don't trust this change, you can always change distro/OS (Alan > even recommended it). I'm putting that in the consideration bin. It could be a possibility. =20 I like to stick with things but if I'm going to be told to bend over and=20 take it, they could at least bring some Vaseline. It seems some of the=20 things I left Mandrake over are coming to Gentoo. Almost makes me=20 wonder if I should have left. Well, I have had some good years so far. =20 Plus I like helping folks on this list too. > >> Personally, if I'm going to have to start running my Gentoo box like a >> binary based distro, I may as well use a binary based distro. If othe= rs >> feel like I do, then Gentoo may start losing users. I got away from >> Mandrake for reasons such as this. > That's your prerrogative. And that's why I'm saying my word in the > list: I'm pretty sure many users in the list (which are not all the > Gentoo users) are not really upset with this change. The other POV has > to be heard. > >> A init* is just one more thing to break. >> If you been on this list long enough, you know my record for finding= things >> that are really crappy. One that comes to mind is hal. I can assure = you I >> can find other examples. People complained about hal and the dev didn= 't >> seem to listen until it really hit the fan. I think the replacement w= as >> made by the same dev but maybe after listening a bit he found where he= could >> improve things. I wish the person behind this could do the same befor= e he >> breaks a lot of stuff. By the way, as Alan and others can point out, = I >> never got hal to work on my system. It was nothing fancy either. At = the >> time it was a Abit NF7 mobo with IDE drives and a PS/2 mouse and keybo= ard. >> If a package can't work right on something as basic as that, it has = little >> hope of anything fancy for sure. > I agree with HAL being a failed experiment: but I think we had to try > it before discarding the idea. Maybe the crap will also hit the fan > with this: I don't know (lost my crystal ball, sorry). But I really > don't believe it, and I have some experience with Linux and Unix and > this kind of stuff. Maybe I'm wrong of course. It was more than failed. It was miserable. > >> I'm going back to my garden. You have fun promoting this mess that is= being >> created. You seem to enjoy it a lot. > I'm not promoting anything. Just want to get into the record that some > users don't mind this change, and some of us even welcome it. > > The discussion I think has been interesting and civil. I do enjoy it. > > Regards. Some don't but my point still stands. If this becomes a security issue=20 for someone with a rig that can't adapt, I'd have some really choice=20 words for a dev if I had a server that I depended on. I think Alan has=20 already pointed out some of those exceptions. Alan is more able to=20 explain that than me for sure. He sits at some of those servers and I=20 don't. Dale :-) :-)