Re: [gentoo-user] mirrorselect on new install

Re: [gentoo-user] mirrorselect on new install

[Indi]

On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 10:50:02PM +0200, Felix Miata wrote:
> http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/handbook-x86.xml?part=1&chap=6 seems to 
> have a circular reference, that is, suggesting the use of the subject utility 
> prior to chrooting and having any such utility in $PATH. I've never installed 
> Gentoo before, so maybe I've missed something. Or maybe that page could use 
> another link or some rewrite to clarify?
> 
> I tried to find an answer via http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-user/ but it 
> seems to lack a search function/box. :-(
> -- 
> "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
> words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)
> 
>   Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!
> 
> Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/

It's been quite awhile since I installed, but ISTR that mirrorselect 
must be emerged after chrooting into the new envirnment. 
You can also just add mirrors manually, like this:

GENTOO_MIRRORS="http://mirror.mcs.anl.gov/pub/gentoo/
ftp://mirror.mcs.anl.gov/pub/gentoo/"

-- 
caveat utilitor 
♫ ❤ ♫ ❤ ♫ ❤ ♫ 

Re: [gentoo-user] mirrorselect on new install

[Felix Miata]

On 2011/05/12 17:03 (GMT-0400) Indi composed:

> On 2011/05/12 16:41 (GMT-0400) Felix Miata composed:

>>  http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/handbook-x86.xml?part=1&chap=6 seems to
>>  have a circular reference, that is, suggesting the use of the subject utility
>>  prior to chrooting and having any such utility in $PATH. I've never installed
>>  Gentoo before, so maybe I've missed something. Or maybe that page could use
>>  another link or some rewrite to clarify?

>>  I tried to find an answer via http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-user/ but it
>>  seems to lack a search function/box. :-(

> It's been quite awhile since I installed, but ISTR that mirrorselect
> must be emerged after chrooting into the new envirnment.
> You can also just add mirrors manually, like this:

> GENTOO_MIRRORS="http://mirror.mcs.anl.gov/pub/gentoo/
> ftp://mirror.mcs.anl.gov/pub/gentoo/"

Since I'm familiar and happy with mirrors.us.kernel.org performance, I might 
rather use that, or rsync.us.gentoo.org (if that's not yet another/separate 
entry make.conf needs, not clear from my reading of the OP URL). So all 
GENTOO_MIRRORS needs is the same URL once as http and once as ftp, or is that 
something specific to mcs.anl.gov?

It's encouraging to try a new distro, join its mailing list, ask a question, 
and get 3 answers within half an hour of asking, and even get one 17 minutes 
before I asked the question (2011/05/12 16:24 (GMT-0400) Todd Goodman using 
Mutt). :-)

In the pages preceding 
http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/handbook-x86.xml?part=1&chap=6 it 
seemed as though the process would be easy enough, having built up some 
experience working in chroot lately to fix fubar'd Fedora and Mandriva rpm 
database disasters (https://qa.mandriva.com/show_bug.cgi?id=32547 & 
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=680508).

I guess I missed the requirement to be running Gentoo to be able to initiate 
an install of Gentoo. I thought whatever Linux was already installed would be 
good enough, until I got to the mirrorselect instructions, and found no 
incorporated alternative such as Indi has replied with.  Indeed, not needing 
to have booted Gentoo to run a Gentoo installer was part of the allure that 
got me started.

I have more than 20 functional multiboot puters, with few having less than 4 
installed operating systems. More typical is 12+. What I use 24/7 are 
openSUSE and eComStation. Most of the rest are either backup, or 
[OS,browser,web site] testing only.
-- 
"The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)

  Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/

Re: [gentoo-user] mirrorselect on new install

[Mark Knecht]

On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 5:06 PM, Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> wrote:
> On 2011/05/12 17:03 (GMT-0400) Indi composed:
>
>> On 2011/05/12 16:41 (GMT-0400) Felix Miata composed:
>
>>>  http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/handbook-x86.xml?part=1&chap=6
>>> seems to
>>>  have a circular reference, that is, suggesting the use of the subject
>>> utility
>>>  prior to chrooting and having any such utility in $PATH. I've never
>>> installed
>>>  Gentoo before, so maybe I've missed something. Or maybe that page could
>>> use
>>>  another link or some rewrite to clarify?
>
>>>  I tried to find an answer via http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-user/
>>> but it
>>>  seems to lack a search function/box. :-(
>
>> It's been quite awhile since I installed, but ISTR that mirrorselect
>> must be emerged after chrooting into the new envirnment.
>> You can also just add mirrors manually, like this:
>
>> GENTOO_MIRRORS="http://mirror.mcs.anl.gov/pub/gentoo/
>> ftp://mirror.mcs.anl.gov/pub/gentoo/"
>
> Since I'm familiar and happy with mirrors.us.kernel.org performance, I might
> rather use that, or rsync.us.gentoo.org (if that's not yet another/separate
> entry make.conf needs, not clear from my reading of the OP URL). So all
> GENTOO_MIRRORS needs is the same URL once as http and once as ftp, or is
> that something specific to mcs.anl.gov?
>
> It's encouraging to try a new distro, join its mailing list, ask a question,
> and get 3 answers within half an hour of asking, and even get one 17 minutes
> before I asked the question (2011/05/12 16:24 (GMT-0400) Todd Goodman using
> Mutt). :-)
>
> In the pages preceding
> http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/handbook-x86.xml?part=1&chap=6 it
> seemed as though the process would be easy enough, having built up some
> experience working in chroot lately to fix fubar'd Fedora and Mandriva rpm
> database disasters (https://qa.mandriva.com/show_bug.cgi?id=32547 &
> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=680508).
>
> I guess I missed the requirement to be running Gentoo to be able to initiate
> an install of Gentoo. I thought whatever Linux was already installed would
> be good enough, until I got to the mirrorselect instructions, and found no
> incorporated alternative such as Indi has replied with.  Indeed, not needing
> to have booted Gentoo to run a Gentoo installer was part of the allure that
> got me started.
>
> I have more than 20 functional multiboot puters, with few having less than 4
> installed operating systems. More typical is 12+. What I use 24/7 are
> openSUSE and eComStation. Most of the rest are either backup, or
> [OS,browser,web site] testing only.
> --
> "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
> words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)
>
>  Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!
>
> Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/
>
>

Felix,
   Welcome.

   OK, I personally think (not speaking for anyone except myself
here...) that the Gentoo Install Guide is based on what Todd suggested
- the *idea* that the person that's following it booted a Gentoo
Install CD. That' a pretty natural assumption I think. You want to
install Fedora, you boot a Fedora CD, Ubuntu, Ubuntu CD, etc.

   That does _not_ mean however that you MUST boot a Gentoo Install
CD, and it doesn't mean that you have to follow the guide explicitly.
For instance, I seldom set up mirrorselect on new installs as I
generally just copy a make.conf file from another machine and that
copy has the address. I typically don't use links to download the two
big tar file, I do that on some other machine that's already running
Gentoo and the ssh them over to do the new install.

   I guess the point is that there are about as many ways as you want
to do this install. The documentation folks did what works for most
people and let others proceed on their own as they wish.

Hope this helps,
Mark

Re: [gentoo-user] mirrorselect on new install

[Alan McKinnon]

Apparently, though unproven, at 02:06 on Friday 13 May 2011, Felix Miata did 
opine thusly:

> I guess I missed the requirement to be running Gentoo to be able to
> initiate  an install of Gentoo. 

This is not correct

> I thought whatever Linux was already
> installed would be good enough, 

this is correct

> until I got to the mirrorselect
> instructions, and found no incorporated alternative such as Indi has
> replied with.  Indeed, not needing to have booted Gentoo to run a Gentoo
> installer was part of the allure that got me started.

That part of the doc assumes that the user is indeed running from the 
LiveCD-like environment provided by the official installer. There are other 
docs (far less verbose in their explanations) covering alternate install 
sources.

All an installer (for any distro does) is write stuff to disk, and what it 
writes is in the correct format so that when the user reboots into it, what 
has been written there functions correctly as an OS.

Most distros provide a customized environment to do this in, usually in the 
form of a bootable CD. This works well for them because that installer was 
coded to take care of all the distro's quirks (and to provide a seamless 
installer, and if necessary to dumb it down to the point where Aunt Tillie can 
do it).

There is no *requirement* anywhere that the installer OS matches the installed 
OS. Heck the installer can even be Windows, and in the case of Wubi, is IS 
windows :-) Virtually anything that can fetch, use and unpack a stage3 then do 
a chroot works fine as an installer, as long as it has drivers for your 
hardware and the filesystem you plan to use.

Of all the Gentoo installs I have done, I can only remember the first ever 
using a Gentoo installer - that was long ago when doing a stage1 earned 
streetcred points. Nowadays doing a stage1 usually tags you as a sado-
masochist (but I digress). All my installs since then have been whatever 
LiveCD I happen to have handy, usually Ubuntu or my trusty RIPLinux rescue 
system on a flash drive.




-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Re: [gentoo-user] mirrorselect on new install

[Felix Miata]

On 2011/05/13 02:37 (GMT+0200) Alan McKinnon composed:

> That part of the doc assumes that the user is indeed running from the
> LiveCD-like environment provided by the official installer. There are other
> docs (far less verbose in their explanations) covering alternate install
> sources.

My actual starting point was "The Gentoo Linux alternative installation 
method HOWTO" <http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/altinstall.xml#doc_chap5>. It was 
from its link to 
http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/handbook-x86.xml?part=1&chap=4 that I 
wound up at the OP link after two next clicks.

> Most distros provide a customized environment to do this in, usually in the
> form of a bootable CD.

I used a few of those many many moons ago, but have only installed in recent 
years using an installation kernel and initrd loaded by Grub, and usually via 
HTTP, rarely by a previously downloaded iso. This installation via chroot is 
completely new to me, though I suspect it's probably common among paid OS 
devs, not unique to Gentoo.
-- 
"The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)

  Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/

Re: [gentoo-user] mirrorselect on new install

[Mike Edenfield]

On 5/12/2011 8:06 PM, Felix Miata wrote:

> In the pages preceding
> http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/handbook-x86.xml?part=1&chap=6
> it seemed as though the process would be easy enough, having
> built up some experience working in chroot lately to fix
> fubar'd Fedora and Mandriva rpm database disasters
> (https://qa.mandriva.com/show_bug.cgi?id=32547 &
> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=680508).
>
> I guess I missed the requirement to be running Gentoo to be
> able to initiate an install of Gentoo. I thought whatever
> Linux was already installed would be good enough, until I
> got to the mirrorselect instructions, and found no
> incorporated alternative such as Indi has replied with.
> Indeed, not needing to have booted Gentoo to run a Gentoo
> installer was part of the allure that got me started.

You don't need to be running Gentoo to install Gentoo. You 
do need to be running a Gentoo install CD to follow the 
Handbook's "How to install Gentoo using a Gentoo install CD" 
guide. But you could perform the same basic steps using any 
bootable CD and get a working Gentoo system.

Mirrorselect in particular is completely optional; you don't 
*have* to set a specific distfile or rsync mirror. Portage 
will use sensible defaults. Or, you could just as easily set 
up your selected mirror with a text editor :)

--Mike

Re: [gentoo-user] mirrorselect on new install

[Indi]

On Fri, May 13, 2011 at 02:20:01AM +0200, Felix Miata wrote:
> On 2011/05/12 17:03 (GMT-0400) Indi composed:
> 
> > On 2011/05/12 16:41 (GMT-0400) Felix Miata composed:
> 
> Since I'm familiar and happy with mirrors.us.kernel.org performance, I might 
> rather use that, or rsync.us.gentoo.org (if that's not yet another/separate 
> entry make.conf needs, not clear from my reading of the OP URL). So all 
> GENTOO_MIRRORS needs is the same URL once as http and once as ftp, or is that 
> something specific to mcs.anl.gov?
>

You can use either http, ftp, or rsync and you can use (AFAIK) as many entries 
as you wish. I think it even works if you don't bother with it, too.


> It's encouraging to try a new distro, join its mailing list, ask a question, 
> and get 3 answers within half an hour of asking, and even get one 17 minutes 
> before I asked the question (2011/05/12 16:24 (GMT-0400) Todd Goodman using 
> Mutt). :-)
>

Yes I love that too, as well as the fact that the documentation is
extremely thorough in most respects, and what little is lacking or 
over my head is usually easily found via searching the fine web.

> In the pages preceding 
> http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/handbook-x86.xml?part=1&chap=6 it 
> seemed as though the process would be easy enough, having built up some 
> experience working in chroot lately to fix fubar'd Fedora and Mandriva rpm 
> database disasters (https://qa.mandriva.com/show_bug.cgi?id=32547 & 
> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=680508).
> 
> I guess I missed the requirement to be running Gentoo to be able to initiate 
> an install of Gentoo. I thought whatever Linux was already installed would be 
> good enough, until I got to the mirrorselect instructions, and found no 
> incorporated alternative such as Indi has replied with.  Indeed, not needing 
> to have booted Gentoo to run a Gentoo installer was part of the allure that 
> got me started.
>

I have never installed gentoo with a gentoo installer disc. Always
seemed unecessary. 

> I have more than 20 functional multiboot puters, with few having less than 4 
> installed operating systems. More typical is 12+. What I use 24/7 are 
> openSUSE and eComStation. Most of the rest are either backup, or 
> [OS,browser,web site] testing only.
>  

Well you'll probably love gentoo. Once you get the make.conf and
package.use files figured out and all your hardware properly accounted
for it's just amazingly good, IME.
I'm totally spoiled by gentoo, and sure do notice that everytime 
I have to use any other system. 

-- 
caveat utilitor 
♫ ❤ ♫ ❤ ♫ ❤ ♫ 

[gentoo-user] mirrorselect on new install

[Felix Miata]

http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/handbook-x86.xml?part=1&chap=6 seems to 
have a circular reference, that is, suggesting the use of the subject utility 
prior to chrooting and having any such utility in $PATH. I've never installed 
Gentoo before, so maybe I've missed something. Or maybe that page could use 
another link or some rewrite to clarify?

I tried to find an answer via http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-user/ but it 
seems to lack a search function/box. :-(
-- 
"The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)

  Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/

Re: [gentoo-user] mirrorselect on new install

[Todd Goodman]

* Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> [110512 16:15]:
> http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/handbook-x86.xml?part=1&chap=6 seems to 
> have a circular reference, that is, suggesting the use of the subject utility 
> prior to chrooting and having any such utility in $PATH. I've never installed 
> Gentoo before, so maybe I've missed something. Or maybe that page could use 
> another link or some rewrite to clarify?
> 
> I tried to find an answer via http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-user/ but it 
> seems to lack a search function/box. :-(
> -- 
> "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
> words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)
> 
>   Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!
> 
> Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/

mirrorselect is available in the system you're running before you
chroot.

I believe the instructions in the handbook you reference above assume
you've booted off a Gentoo install disk (which should have mirrorselect
on it.)

Todd

Re: [gentoo-user] mirrorselect on new install

[Mark Knecht]

On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 1:41 PM, Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> wrote:
> http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/handbook-x86.xml?part=1&chap=6 seems
> to have a circular reference, that is, suggesting the use of the subject
> utility prior to chrooting and having any such utility in $PATH. I've never
> installed Gentoo before, so maybe I've missed something. Or maybe that page
> could use another link or some rewrite to clarify?
>
> I tried to find an answer via http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-user/ but it
> seems to lack a search function/box. :-(
> --
> "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
> words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)
>
>  Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!
>
> Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/
>
>

If it's the first line in the link, then this is done before the
chroot. Note that the path is the etc directory in the eventual
install. You get the make.conf file set up and then chroot. The guide
is correct.

mirrorselect -i -o >> /mnt/gentoo/etc/make.conf

That's not to say that it couldn't be done after the chroot. It
possibly could. I've never done it that way though.

Hope this helps,
Mark

mirrorselect -i -o >> /mnt/gentoo/etc/make.conf

Re: [gentoo-user] mirrorselect on new install

[Alan McKinnon]

Apparently, though unproven, at 22:41 on Thursday 12 May 2011, Felix Miata did 
opine thusly:

> http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/handbook-x86.xml?part=1&chap=6 seems
> to have a circular reference, that is, suggesting the use of the subject
> utility prior to chrooting and having any such utility in $PATH. I've
> never installed Gentoo before, so maybe I've missed something. Or maybe
> that page could use another link or some rewrite to clarify?
> 
> I tried to find an answer via http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-user/ but
> it seems to lack a search function/box. :-(


Where exactly is this supposed circular reference? As in, quote the exact text 
and why you feel it is in error.

You have to select a mirror before the chroot step; to get a working chroot 
you have to acquire a stage (usually by downloading it) and to do that you 
need to select a download source.

-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Re: [gentoo-user] mirrorselect on new install

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Thu, 12 May 2011 16:41:15 -0400, Felix Miata wrote:

> I tried to find an answer via http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-user/
> but it seems to lack a search function/box. :-(

Use Google, search for "search string site:archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-user"


-- 
Neil Bothwick

When the going gets tough, upgrade.

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