[gentoo-user] Why is KDE part of the system set?

[gentoo-user] Why is KDE part of the system set?

[Dale]

I been doing a little testing here.  I notice something weird here.  Did 
I do this somehow?  Why are these part of the system set?

root@fireball / # emerge -ep system | grep kde
[ebuild   R   ~] kde-base/kde-env-4.6.0
[ebuild   R   ~] kde-base/oxygen-icons-4.6.0
[ebuild   R   ~] kde-base/kdelibs-4.6.0-r1
[ebuild   R   ~] sys-auth/polkit-kde-agent-0.99.0
[ebuild   R   ~] kde-base/khelpcenter-4.6.0
[ebuild   R   ~] kde-base/nepomuk-4.6.0
[ebuild   R   ~] kde-misc/polkit-kde-kcmodules-0.98_pre20101127
root@fireball / # emerge -ep system | grep qt
[ebuild   R   ~] x11-libs/qt-core-4.7.1-r1
[ebuild   R   ~] x11-libs/qt-script-4.7.1-r1
[ebuild   R   ~] x11-libs/qt-sql-4.7.1-r1
[ebuild   R   ~] x11-libs/qt-test-4.7.1
[ebuild   R   ~] x11-libs/qt-xmlpatterns-4.7.1
[ebuild   R   ~] x11-libs/qt-dbus-4.7.1
[ebuild   R   ~] x11-libs/qt-gui-4.7.1-r1
[ebuild   R   ~] x11-libs/qt-qt3support-4.7.1
[ebuild   R   ~] x11-libs/qt-svg-4.7.1-r1
[ebuild   R   ~] x11-libs/qt-opengl-4.7.1
[ebuild   R   ~] x11-libs/qt-declarative-4.7.1-r2
[ebuild   R    ] dev-libs/libdbusmenu-qt-0.6.2
[ebuild   R   ~] sys-auth/polkit-qt-0.99.0
[ebuild   R   ~] x11-libs/qt-webkit-4.7.1-r1
root@fireball / #

What is KDE and qt doing in there?  Did I add these somehow?  I'm using 
the KDE profile is that where it came from.  I just think this is sort 
of weird.

Thanks.

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] Why is KDE part of the system set?

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Tue, 22 Feb 2011 22:28:12 -0600, Dale wrote:

> What is KDE and qt doing in there?  Did I add these somehow?  I'm using 
> the KDE profile is that where it came from.  I just think this is sort 
> of weird.

The KDE profile sets the kde USE flag - see
$PORTDIR/profiles/targets/desktop/kde/make.defaults.

However, emerge -p system doesn't pull in any KDE packages here, although
it does include qt, so this must be covered by another of your USE flags,
which requires something that in turn requires KDE. Run it again with
--tree to see what's really going on.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler.

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Re: [gentoo-user] Why is KDE part of the system set?

[Dale]

Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Tue, 22 Feb 2011 22:28:12 -0600, Dale wrote:
>
>    
>> What is KDE and qt doing in there?  Did I add these somehow?  I'm using
>> the KDE profile is that where it came from.  I just think this is sort
>> of weird.
>>      
> The KDE profile sets the kde USE flag - see
> $PORTDIR/profiles/targets/desktop/kde/make.defaults.
>
> However, emerge -p system doesn't pull in any KDE packages here, although
> it does include qt, so this must be covered by another of your USE flags,
> which requires something that in turn requires KDE. Run it again with
> --tree to see what's really going on.
>
>
>    

This is snippets since this is a long list.  I can't believe system has 
gotten this big.  It's almost half the packages on my system.  o_O

[nomerge       ] dev-perl/DBD-mysql-4.01.7
[nomerge       ]  virtual/mysql-5.1
[ebuild   R    ]   dev-db/mysql-5.1.51
[nomerge       ] x11-libs/qt-webkit-4.7.1-r1
[nomerge       ]  media-sound/phonon-4.4.4
[nomerge       ]   media-sound/phonon-vlc-9999
[nomerge       ]    media-video/vlc-1.1.7
[nomerge       ]     kde-base/kdelibs-4.6.0-r1
[nomerge       ]      app-crypt/gnupg-2.0.17
[nomerge       ]       net-nds/openldap-2.4.24
[nomerge       ]        dev-libs/cyrus-sasl-2.1.23-r1
[nomerge       ]         virtual/jdk-1.6.0
[ebuild   R    ]          dev-java/icedtea6-bin-1.9.7

[ebuild   R    ] sys-devel/gcc-4.4.4-r2
[ebuild   R    ]  sys-libs/glibc-2.11.2-r3
[nomerge       ] kde-base/khelpcenter-4.6.0
[nomerge       ]  kde-base/kdelibs-4.6.0-r1
[ebuild   R   ~]   kde-base/nepomuk-4.6.0
[ebuild   R   ~]   kde-misc/polkit-kde-kcmodules-0.98_pre20101127
[ebuild   R   ~]   kde-base/khelpcenter-4.6.0
[ebuild   R   ~]   sys-auth/polkit-kde-agent-0.99.0
[ebuild   R   ~]    kde-base/kdelibs-4.6.0-r1
[ebuild   R    ]     sys-fs/udisks-1.0.1-r1
[ebuild   R    ]      dev-libs/libatasmart-0.17
[ebuild   R    ]      sys-block/parted-2.3
[ebuild   R   ~]     sys-power/upower-0.9.8

[nomerge       ] kde-base/kdelibs-4.6.0-r1
[nomerge       ]  app-misc/strigi-0.7.1
[nomerge       ]   virtual/fam-0
[ebuild   R    ]    app-admin/gamin-0.1.10

[ebuild   R    ] sys-apps/file-5.04
[nomerge       ] kde-base/kdelibs-4.6.0-r1
[nomerge       ]  media-libs/jasper-1.900.1-r3
[nomerge       ]   media-libs/freeglut-2.6.0
[nomerge       ]    virtual/opengl-7.0
[ebuild   R    ]     media-libs/mesa-7.9.1

[nomerge       ] kde-base/kdelibs-4.6.0-r1
[ebuild   R    ]  dev-libs/libxslt-1.1.26
[ebuild   R    ]   dev-lang/python-2.6.6-r1
[ebuild   R   ~]  x11-libs/qt-declarative-4.7.1-r2
[ebuild   R   ~]   x11-libs/qt-opengl-4.7.1
[ebuild   R   ~]   x11-libs/qt-svg-4.7.1-r1
[ebuild   R   ~]   x11-libs/qt-qt3support-4.7.1
[ebuild   R   ~]    x11-libs/qt-gui-4.7.1-r1

[nomerge       ] kde-base/kdelibs-4.6.0-r1
[nomerge       ]  x11-misc/xdg-utils-1.0.2_p20100618
[ebuild   R    ]   x11-misc/shared-mime-info-0.80
[ebuild   R    ]    dev-libs/libxml2-2.7.8


That is some of them at least.  If needed, I can post the whole list but 
it is lengthy.  I always thought system was supposed to be small and 
just what is needed to boot and portage to work.  I had no idea this 
included KDE, qt and other stuff that is not needed.

I did look in the profile.  All I saw was the USE flag as well but 
thought maybe I was missing something else it enabled.  It took me a 
while to find it under default tho.  I was looking under amd64 which is 
basically nothing.  That was confusing at first too.  Anyway.  This is 
my USE info according to emerge --info:

USE="3dnow 3dnowext X aac acpi alsa amd64 aml auto-hinter automount 
avahi berkdb bzip2 cairo cddb cdr chroot cleartype cli clucene 
consolekit corefonts cracklib cups curl cxx dbus dri dvd dvdr emboss 
encode escreen esd exif fam ffmpeg firefox flac fortran gdbm gdu gif 
gimp gkrellm gnutls gphoto2 gpm gtk hbci hddtemp iconv ipv6 java 
javascript jbig jpeg jpeg2k justify kde lcms ldap libnotify libwww 
logrotate loop-aes mad mdnsresponder-compat melt mikmod mmx mng modules 
mp3 mp4 mpeg mplayer mudflap multilib mysql ncurses nls nptl nptlonly 
nsplugin offensive ofx ogg opengl openmp pam pango parport pcre pdf perl 
png policykit ppds ppp pppd python qt3 qt3support qt4 readline sasl sdl 
seamonkey semantic-desktop session sift smp spell sse sse2 ssl 
startup-notification svg sysfs syslog tcl tcpd threads tiff tk truetype 
type1 udev unicode usb vcd vorbis webkit wma wmf x264 xcb xml xorg xv 
xvid yahoo zeroconf zlib" ALSA_CARDS="ali5451 als4000 atiixp 
atiixp-modem bt87x ca0106 cmipci emu10k1x ens1370 ens1371 es1938 es1968 
fm801 hda-intel intel8x0 intel8x0m maestro3 trident usb-audio via82xx 
via82xx-modem ymfpci" ALSA_PCM_PLUGINS="adpcm alaw asym copy dmix dshare 
dsnoop empty extplug file hooks iec958 ioplug ladspa lfloat linear meter 
mmap_emul mulaw multi null plug rate route share shm softvol" 
APACHE2_MODULES="actions alias auth_basic authn_alias authn_anon 
authn_dbm authn_default authn_file authz_dbm authz_default 
authz_groupfile authz_host authz_owner authz_user autoindex cache cgi 
cgid dav dav_fs dav_lock deflate dir disk_cache env expires ext_filter 
file_cache filter headers include info log_config logio mem_cache mime 
mime_magic negotiation rewrite setenvif speling status unique_id userdir 
usertrack vhost_alias" CAMERAS="canon ptp2" COLLECTD_PLUGINS="df 
interface irq load memory rrdtool swap syslog" ELIBC="glibc" 
GPSD_PROTOCOLS="ashtech aivdm earthmate evermore fv18 garmin garmintxt 
gpsclock itrax mtk3301 nmea ntrip navcom oceanserver oldstyle oncore 
rtcm104v2 rtcm104v3 sirf superstar2 timing tsip tripmate tnt ubx" 
INPUT_DEVICES="evdev" KERNEL="linux" LCD_DEVICES="bayrad cfontz 
cfontz633 glk hd44780 lb216 lcdm001 mtxorb ncurses text" LINGUAS="en_US 
en" PHP_TARGETS="php5-3" RUBY_TARGETS="ruby18" USERLAND="GNU" 
VIDEO_CARDS="nv nvidia" XTABLES_ADDONS="quota2 psd pknock lscan length2 
ipv4options ipset ipp2p iface geoip fuzzy condition tee tarpit sysrq 
steal rawnat logmark ipmark dhcpmac delude chaos account"

The total packages it wants to build for system is 401.  Is this 
normal?  I only have about 900 in all.  Not to long ago, system was only 
about 200 or so.

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] Why is KDE part of the system set?

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Wed, 23 Feb 2011 05:47:59 -0600, Dale wrote:

> This is snippets since this is a long list.  I can't believe system has 
> gotten this big.  It's almost half the packages on my system.  o_O
> 
> [nomerge       ] dev-perl/DBD-mysql-4.01.7
> [nomerge       ]  virtual/mysql-5.1
> [ebuild   R    ]   dev-db/mysql-5.1.51
> [nomerge       ] x11-libs/qt-webkit-4.7.1-r1
> [nomerge       ]  media-sound/phonon-4.4.4
> [nomerge       ]   media-sound/phonon-vlc-9999
> [nomerge       ]    media-video/vlc-1.1.7
> [nomerge       ]     kde-base/kdelibs-4.6.0-r1
> [nomerge       ]      app-crypt/gnupg-2.0.17
> [nomerge       ]       net-nds/openldap-2.4.24
> [nomerge       ]        dev-libs/cyrus-sasl-2.1.23-r1
> [nomerge       ]         virtual/jdk-1.6.0
> [ebuild   R    ]          dev-java/icedtea6-bin-1.9.7
> 
> [ebuild   R    ] sys-devel/gcc-4.4.4-r2
> [ebuild   R    ]  sys-libs/glibc-2.11.2-r3
> [nomerge       ] kde-base/khelpcenter-4.6.0
> [nomerge       ]  kde-base/kdelibs-4.6.0-r1
> [ebuild   R   ~]   kde-base/nepomuk-4.6.0
> [ebuild   R   ~]   kde-misc/polkit-kde-kcmodules-0.98_pre20101127
> [ebuild   R   ~]   kde-base/khelpcenter-4.6.0
> [ebuild   R   ~]   sys-auth/polkit-kde-agent-0.99.0
> [ebuild   R   ~]    kde-base/kdelibs-4.6.0-r1
> [ebuild   R    ]     sys-fs/udisks-1.0.1-r1
> [ebuild   R    ]      dev-libs/libatasmart-0.17
> [ebuild   R    ]      sys-block/parted-2.3
> [ebuild   R   ~]     sys-power/upower-0.9.8

This isn't much help, you need the parts where the KDE/QT packages are
shown as ebuild, not nomerge. That will show you what is requiring them.

emerge -ept | grep -B 4 kdelibs should find that for you, or

emerge -ept | most (or your preferred pager)

then search for kdelibs.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

""  "   """  "  ""   "  """  <-- random quotes

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Re: [gentoo-user] Why is KDE part of the system set?

[Joost Roeleveld]

On Wednesday 23 February 2011 05:47:59 Dale wrote:

<snipped>

> The total packages it wants to build for system is 401.  Is this
> normal?  I only have about 900 in all.  Not to long ago, system was only
> about 200 or so.
> 
> Dale
> 
> :-)  :-)

No, that is not (necessarily) normal.

On my system here, when I do a " emerge -pve system" it comes with 128 
packages....

But, it could be related to some use-flags in your "system" packages, as when I 
do "USE="X" emerge -pve system" it already goes up to 151 packages.

The USE-flags defined in my /etc/make.conf is limited to:
USE="mmx sse sse2 opengl xinerama threads"

I stick the rest in /etc/portage/package.use on a per-package basis.

--
Joost

Re: [gentoo-user] Why is KDE part of the system set?

[Mark Knecht]

On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 8:28 PM, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
> I been doing a little testing here.  I notice something weird here.  Did I
> do this somehow?  Why are these part of the system set?
>
> root@fireball / # emerge -ep system | grep kde
> [ebuild   R   ~] kde-base/kde-env-4.6.0
> [ebuild   R   ~] kde-base/oxygen-icons-4.6.0
> [ebuild   R   ~] kde-base/kdelibs-4.6.0-r1
> [ebuild   R   ~] sys-auth/polkit-kde-agent-0.99.0
> [ebuild   R   ~] kde-base/khelpcenter-4.6.0
> [ebuild   R   ~] kde-base/nepomuk-4.6.0
> [ebuild   R   ~] kde-misc/polkit-kde-kcmodules-0.98_pre20101127

This command returns nothing on my laptop which uses the kde profile.

One big difference is you are using a boat load of use flags, I'm
using very few. I'd start with why you have all those flags and what
they are doing. Also, my laptop is stable so very few ~amd64 packages
- only nvidia-drivers so far.

emerge -pve @system tells me 191 packages so the list is large. Other
systems that don't use the kde profile seem to pull in (from memory)
about 130 packages.

- Mark

Re: [gentoo-user] Why is KDE part of the system set?

[Dale]

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Neil Bothwick wrote:
> This isn't much help, you need the parts where the KDE/QT packages are
> shown as ebuild, not nomerge. That will show you what is requiring them.
>
> emerge -ept | grep -B 4 kdelibs should find that for you, or
>
> emerge -ept | most (or your preferred pager)
>
> then search for kdelibs.
>
>    

Attached is the whole thing.  I'm not sure the other would have helped 
much and it was pretty long too.

I do have a LOT of USE flags.  I inspect them when I run emerge and they 
have accumulated over the years. Some of them may not be valid anymore.  
I need to clean them out I guess but portage is not complaining any.  ;-)

Thanks.

Dale

:-)  :-)

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Re: [gentoo-user] Why is KDE part of the system set?

[Mike Edenfield]

On 2/23/2011 10:57 AM, Dale wrote:
> Neil Bothwick wrote:
>> This isn't much help, you need the parts where the KDE/QT packages are
>> shown as ebuild, not nomerge. That will show you what is requiring them.
>>
>> emerge -ept | grep -B 4 kdelibs should find that for you, or
>>
>> emerge -ept | most (or your preferred pager)
>>
>> then search for kdelibs.
>>
>>    
> 
> Attached is the whole thing.  I'm not sure the other would have helped
> much and it was pretty long too.
> 
> I do have a LOT of USE flags.  I inspect them when I run emerge and they
> have accumulated over the years. Some of them may not be valid anymore. 
> I need to clean them out I guess but portage is not complaining any.  ;-)

Near as I can tell, your problem originates here:

[nomerge       ] kde-base/khelpcenter-4.6.0
[nomerge       ]  kde-base/kdelibs-4.6.0-r1
[ebuild   R   ~]   kde-base/nepomuk-4.6.0
[ebuild   R   ~]   kde-misc/polkit-kde-kcmodules-0.98_pre20101127
[ebuild   R   ~]   kde-base/khelpcenter-4.6.0
[ebuild   R   ~]   sys-auth/polkit-kde-agent-0.99.0
[ebuild   R   ~]    kde-base/kdelibs-4.6.0-r1

Every other KDE or Qt package in the emerge output can be traced back to
being a dependency of khelpcenter (directly or indirectly).  Although
technically that's not even true, since khelpcenter *doesn't* depend on
kdelibs, not since 4.4.5, but your portage seems to think it still does.
 And once you've pulled in kdelibs, you eventually depend on everything
else in the universe as well (including, of course, khelpcenter!).

Do you, by any chance, have a file named /etc/portage/profile/packages?
 The only way for a package to get into your system set is if it's
package atom is:

* Listed in a file named 'packages' somewhere in your set of profile
paths, and
* Prefixed with a "*" within that file

--Mike

Re: [gentoo-user] Why is KDE part of the system set?

[Dale]

Mike Edenfield wrote:
> Near as I can tell, your problem originates here:
>
> [nomerge       ] kde-base/khelpcenter-4.6.0
> [nomerge       ]  kde-base/kdelibs-4.6.0-r1
> [ebuild   R   ~]   kde-base/nepomuk-4.6.0
> [ebuild   R   ~]   kde-misc/polkit-kde-kcmodules-0.98_pre20101127
> [ebuild   R   ~]   kde-base/khelpcenter-4.6.0
> [ebuild   R   ~]   sys-auth/polkit-kde-agent-0.99.0
> [ebuild   R   ~]    kde-base/kdelibs-4.6.0-r1
>
> Every other KDE or Qt package in the emerge output can be traced back to
> being a dependency of khelpcenter (directly or indirectly).  Although
> technically that's not even true, since khelpcenter *doesn't* depend on
> kdelibs, not since 4.4.5, but your portage seems to think it still does.
>   And once you've pulled in kdelibs, you eventually depend on everything
> else in the universe as well (including, of course, khelpcenter!).
>
> Do you, by any chance, have a file named /etc/portage/profile/packages?
>   The only way for a package to get into your system set is if it's
> package atom is:
>
> * Listed in a file named 'packages' somewhere in your set of profile
> paths, and
> * Prefixed with a "*" within that file
>
> --Mike
>
>
>    

I don't even have the profile directory:

root@fireball / # ls -al /etc/portage/
total 6
drwxr-xr-x 10 root root  328 Feb 22 21:18 .
drwxr-xr-x 78 root root 4568 Feb 23 18:02 ..
-rw-r--r--  1 root root    0 Feb 22 21:18 .keep_sys-apps_portage-0
drwxr-xr-x  2 root root   80 Feb 22 18:57 bin
drwxr-xr-x  2 root root  464 Feb 22 17:43 package.keywords
drwxr-xr-x  2 root root   80 Feb  3 02:27 package.mask
drwxr-xr-x  2 root root  504 Feb 22 17:44 package.unmask
drwxr-xr-x  2 root root  680 Feb 18 06:20 package.use
drwxr-xr-x  2 root root   80 Feb 22 18:57 postsync.d
drwxr-xr-x  3 root root   72 Dec 11 17:09 savedconfig
drwxr-xr-x  2 root root   72 Feb 16 19:10 sets
root@fireball / #

I created the package.* ones and I think I did the sets one too.  I 
haven't messed with the others tho.

I wonder if the devs know about all this?  Is this something they should 
know about?  Is this unique to me?  I have KDE installed by using the 
kde-meta but surely I'm not the only one that uses it.

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] Why is KDE part of the system set?

[Alex Schuster]

Dale writes:

> Mike Edenfield wrote:
>> Near as I can tell, your problem originates here:
>>
>> [nomerge       ] kde-base/khelpcenter-4.6.0
>> [nomerge       ]  kde-base/kdelibs-4.6.0-r1
>> [ebuild   R   ~]   kde-base/nepomuk-4.6.0
>> [ebuild   R   ~]   kde-misc/polkit-kde-kcmodules-0.98_pre20101127
>> [ebuild   R   ~]   kde-base/khelpcenter-4.6.0
>> [ebuild   R   ~]   sys-auth/polkit-kde-agent-0.99.0
>> [ebuild   R   ~]    kde-base/kdelibs-4.6.0-r1
>>
>> Every other KDE or Qt package in the emerge output can be traced back to
>> being a dependency of khelpcenter (directly or indirectly).  Although
>> technically that's not even true, since khelpcenter *doesn't* depend on
>> kdelibs, not since 4.4.5, but your portage seems to think it still does.

I see "inherit kde4-meta" in the khelpcenter ebuild, but I don't know
what inherit means here.


> I wonder if the devs know about all this?  Is this something they should 
> know about?  Is this unique to me?  I have KDE installed by using the 
> kde-meta but surely I'm not the only one that uses it.

@system also pulls in some KDE stuff here. I don't have time to fully
investigate this, after a short look it seems to me that gawk pulls in
gettext, that needs git, git wants subversion, and that has the kde USE
flag. So subversion pulls in kwalletd and kdelibs, and those need some
more KDE stuff.

Looks like normal behaviour to me. @system should be a small set, but
when some packages in @system have kde USE flags, they will pull in KDE
stuff.

	Wonko

Re: [gentoo-user] Why is KDE part of the system set?

[Walter Dnes]

On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 09:57:00AM -0600, Dale wrote

  I tried a pretend emerge of khelpcenter.  I had to unmask dbus and
allow a bunch of use flags before it would run.  Here's what I ended up
with...

USE="accessibility kde dbus qt3support ssl handbook exceptions" emerge -pv khelpcenter

...which would've downloaded 33 packages totalling 220 megabytes.  That
looks like it could be the culprit.  I suggest cp /var/lib/portage/world
to your user directory, and go over it with a fine-tooth comb, and ask
yourself why you want each of those packages.  If you want to see what
each package's dependancies are, execute...

emerge -pv --depclean > x.txt

...and then open up x.txt with an editor/viewer.  Packages listed as
pulled in by "@selected" are in world.  I have a script which will
generate a list of packages that can be unmerged relatively safely.

  You have one heckuva lot of USE flags.  I start my USE with "-*" and
add stuff as required.  Often, I only add it to package.use.

-- 
Walter Dnes <waltdnes@waltdnes.org>

Re: [gentoo-user] Why is KDE part of the system set?

[Sebastian Beßler]

Am 24.02.2011 01:48, schrieb Alex Schuster:

> Looks like normal behaviour to me. @system should be a small set, but
> when some packages in @system have kde USE flags, they will pull in KDE
> stuff.

One can make an easy test to see how that works:

USE="-kde" emerge -e @system -vp
Total: 181 packages

emerge -e @system -v
Total: 436 packages,

The kde-useflag pulls in a waste of packages

In my system-set are 50 packages:

emerge @system -vp
Total: 50 packages

Greetings

Sebastian Beßler

Re: [gentoo-user] Why is KDE part of the system set?

[Dale]

Sebastian Beßler wrote:
>
> One can make an easy test to see how that works:
>
> USE="-kde" emerge -e @system -vp
> Total: 181 packages
>
> emerge -e @system -v
> Total: 436 packages,
>
> The kde-useflag pulls in a waste of packages
>
> In my system-set are 50 packages:
>
> emerge @system -vp
> Total: 50 packages
>
> Greetings
>
> Sebastian Beßler
>
>

This is what I got with that:

Total: 294 packages (294 reinstalls), Size of downloads: 0 kB

With the kde USE flag:

Total: 401 packages (401 reinstalls), Size of downloads: 0 kB

That's a big difference.  This is my system and world info:

Packages installed:   929
Packages in world:    94
Packages in system:   50
Required packages:    929

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] Why is KDE part of the system set?

[Dale]

Walter Dnes wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 09:57:00AM -0600, Dale wrote
>
>    I tried a pretend emerge of khelpcenter.  I had to unmask dbus and
> allow a bunch of use flags before it would run.  Here's what I ended up
> with...
>
> USE="accessibility kde dbus qt3support ssl handbook exceptions" emerge -pv khelpcenter
>
> ...which would've downloaded 33 packages totalling 220 megabytes.  That
> looks like it could be the culprit.  I suggest cp /var/lib/portage/world
> to your user directory, and go over it with a fine-tooth comb, and ask
> yourself why you want each of those packages.  If you want to see what
> each package's dependancies are, execute...
>
> emerge -pv --depclean>  x.txt
>
> ...and then open up x.txt with an editor/viewer.  Packages listed as
> pulled in by "@selected" are in world.  I have a script which will
> generate a list of packages that can be unmerged relatively safely.
>
>    You have one heckuva lot of USE flags.  I start my USE with "-*" and
> add stuff as required.  Often, I only add it to package.use.
>
>    

This is funny, I add USE flags as I need them as well.  You have to keep 
in mind tho, that USE line is many years old.  That USE line came from 
my old rig and as I emerge things, I add USE flags that I need.  I 
rarely use package.use tho.  I'm not that big of a control freak that I 
want to control a package one by one.  My package.use file has 4 lines 
in it.  They been there a while too.  I might could remove them since 
those were due to bugs of some sort.

I suspect that a lot of USE flags are no longer in use.  I tried 
eix-test-obsolete but it doesn't seem to check the USE flags.  Going 
through those one by one would take a good long while.  I don't know of 
a tool that checks for flags that are no longer in use tho.

My world file is fine.  I went through it a while back and it is fairly 
small.  It's the system set that is larger than normal.

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] Why is KDE part of the system set?

[Sebastian Beßler]

Am 24.02.2011 13:32, schrieb Dale:

> My world file is fine. I went through it a while back and it is fairly
> small. It's the system set that is larger than normal.

Your system set has 50 entries, that seems to be absolutly normal.

The high count of entries in emerge -e @system comes from USE-flags like 
kde (what we have shown in the other post) and probably one or more 
other USE-flags.

To lower the number in emerge -e @system you have to look at your flags, 
one by one if nothing else helps. Or you could just ignore it, because 
all that is pulled in are dependencies of some sort and not in your @system.

Greetings

Sebastian Beßler

Re: [gentoo-user] Why is KDE part of the system set?

[Dale]

Sebastian Beßler wrote:
> Am 24.02.2011 13:32, schrieb Dale:
>
>> My world file is fine. I went through it a while back and it is fairly
>> small. It's the system set that is larger than normal.
>
> Your system set has 50 entries, that seems to be absolutly normal.
>
> The high count of entries in emerge -e @system comes from USE-flags 
> like kde (what we have shown in the other post) and probably one or 
> more other USE-flags.
>
> To lower the number in emerge -e @system you have to look at your 
> flags, one by one if nothing else helps. Or you could just ignore it, 
> because all that is pulled in are dependencies of some sort and not in 
> your @system.
>
> Greetings
>
> Sebastian Beßler
>
>

And since I use KDE, it's not like I can disable the USE flag either.  I 
may be able to disable or remove some others that are not needed or 
outdated but still, kde would be there.

I just wonder if the devs have noticed how much this has grown when 
packages with X flags are included in the system set?.  Would Gnome do 
the same?  What about other GUI's?

If I do this:

USE="-*" emerge -pv system

I get this:

Total: 50 packages (50 reinstalls)

What a difference USE flags makes huh?

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] Why is KDE part of the system set?

[Sebastian Beßler]

Am 24.02.2011 14:03, schrieb Dale:

> If I do this:
>
> USE="-*" emerge -pv system
>
> I get this:
>
> Total: 50 packages (50 reinstalls)
>
> What a difference USE flags makes huh?

You forgot to add the e, without it you reinstall only the 50 packages 
in @system, because the dependencies are all there at this time.

USE="-*" emerge -pv @system
Total: 50 packages (50 reinstalls)

emerge -pv @system
Total: 50 packages (50 reinstalls)

USE="-*" emerge -pve @system
Total: 88 packages (88 reinstalls)

But yes, the difference 88 to more then 400 is really big.

Re: [gentoo-user] Why is KDE part of the system set?

[Elaine C. Sharpe]

In linux.gentoo.user, you wrote:
> Sebastian Beßler wrote:
>> Am 24.02.2011 13:32, schrieb Dale:
>>
>>> My world file is fine. I went through it a while back and it is fairly
>>> small. It's the system set that is larger than normal.
>>
>> Your system set has 50 entries, that seems to be absolutly normal.
>>
>> The high count of entries in emerge -e @system comes from USE-flags 
>> like kde (what we have shown in the other post) and probably one or 
>> more other USE-flags.
>>
>> To lower the number in emerge -e @system you have to look at your 
>> flags, one by one if nothing else helps. Or you could just ignore it, 
>> because all that is pulled in are dependencies of some sort and not in 
>> your @system.
>>
>> Greetings
>>
>> Sebastian Beßler
>>
>>
>
> And since I use KDE, it's not like I can disable the USE flag either.  I 
> may be able to disable or remove some others that are not needed or 
> outdated but still, kde would be there.
>
> I just wonder if the devs have noticed how much this has grown when 
> packages with X flags are included in the system set?.  Would Gnome do 
> the same?  What about other GUI's?
>
> If I do this:
>
> USE="-*" emerge -pv system
>
> I get this:
>
> Total: 50 packages (50 reinstalls)
>
> What a difference USE flags makes huh?
>
> Dale
>
>:-)  :-)

I use fluxbox and sometimes wmaker. Probably a lot of people are put 
off by the default configs, but both offer extremely powerful and 
versatile customization tools. Add your fave terminal emulator (I 
recommend terminator for it's killer feature set) and conky for system 
monitoring, midnight commander or worker for file management, and you 
have a pretty complete desktop without need of all the bloaty k or g 
stuff.  It's a *lot* faster that way, too.

-- 
caveat utilitor 
♫ ❤ ♫ ❤ ♫ ❤ ♫ 

Re: [gentoo-user] Why is KDE part of the system set?

[Dale]

Sebastian Beßler wrote:
> Am 24.02.2011 14:03, schrieb Dale:
>
>> If I do this:
>>
>> USE="-*" emerge -pv system
>>
>> I get this:
>>
>> Total: 50 packages (50 reinstalls)
>>
>> What a difference USE flags makes huh?
>
> You forgot to add the e, without it you reinstall only the 50 packages 
> in @system, because the dependencies are all there at this time.
>
> USE="-*" emerge -pv @system
> Total: 50 packages (50 reinstalls)
>
> emerge -pv @system
> Total: 50 packages (50 reinstalls)
>
> USE="-*" emerge -pve @system
> Total: 88 packages (88 reinstalls)
>
> But yes, the difference 88 to more then 400 is really big.
>
>

Good catch.  I did miss the -e.  I don't use it very much so my fingers 
are not used to typing it in.  This is the new results which is close to 
yours.

Total: 87 packages (87 reinstalls)

That is more reasonable.  I just wonder where it will be in another year 
or so.

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] Why is KDE part of the system set?

[Dale]

Elaine C. Sharpe wrote:
>
> I use fluxbox and sometimes wmaker. Probably a lot of people are put
> off by the default configs, but both offer extremely powerful and
> versatile customization tools. Add your fave terminal emulator (I
> recommend terminator for it's killer feature set) and conky for system
> monitoring, midnight commander or worker for file management, and you
> have a pretty complete desktop without need of all the bloaty k or g
> stuff.  It's a *lot* faster that way, too.
>
>    

I have Fluxbox installed here as well.  I use it for a backup GUI.  I 
can open Seamonkey and some other programs in it.  I mostly wanted 
something that if KDE died, I could get to the mailing lists or the 
forums and get help in a easy way.

KDE is big tho.  I also like KDE.  I tried Gnome but it just wasn't my 
thing.  Fluxbox as a backup is nice tho.  It is surely fast on this 4 
core 3.2Ghz with 8Gbs of ram rig.  To say it flies is putting it mild.  lol

For those keeping up, DHL got the new memory to Memphis.  It has been 
sitting at the post office since Monday.  I'm hoping it will show up 
today but it says next week on the website.  Time to drag out my bicycle 
again.  lol

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] Why is KDE part of the system set?

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Thu, 24 Feb 2011 07:03:06 -0600, Dale wrote:

> I just wonder if the devs have noticed how much this has grown when 
> packages with X flags are included in the system set?.  Would Gnome do 
> the same?  What about other GUI's?

What does it matter? They are only dependencies of @system, but they will
also be dependencies of @world, because you have emerged kde-meta, so
either way they would be on your system.

There is nothing wrong with your system, it is doing exactly what you
told it to with your USE flags, and the kde flag is not the culprit
anyway as emerge -ep @system doesn't bring in any KDE stuff here.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

WinErr 012: Window closed - Do not look inside

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Re: [gentoo-user] Why is KDE part of the system set?

[Dale]

Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Thu, 24 Feb 2011 07:03:06 -0600, Dale wrote:
>
>    
>> I just wonder if the devs have noticed how much this has grown when
>> packages with X flags are included in the system set?.  Would Gnome do
>> the same?  What about other GUI's?
>>      
> What does it matter? They are only dependencies of @system, but they will
> also be dependencies of @world, because you have emerged kde-meta, so
> either way they would be on your system.
>
> There is nothing wrong with your system, it is doing exactly what you
> told it to with your USE flags, and the kde flag is not the culprit
> anyway as emerge -ep @system doesn't bring in any KDE stuff here.
>
>    

I was always under the impression that @system was supposed to be a 
limited set of packages to build, including dependencies.  For me, if I 
have a issue, I usually start with emerge -e system to see if it helps.  
Since there is some KDE stuff in there, that makes it build packages 
that I most likely don't need to be rebuilt.  To me, KDE is not a system 
package.

It is doing what it is told but it is also doing things that it didn't 
use to do even when told the same as it is being told now.  It wasn't to 
long ago that system was about 150 packages and didn't take that long to 
recompile.  Now it is over 400.  If this continues, the difference 
between system and world is going to be small.

It may not be broke but it seems the system set is growing pretty quick.

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] Why is KDE part of the system set?

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Thu, 24 Feb 2011 09:21:54 -0600, Dale wrote:

> I was always under the impression that @system was supposed to be a 
> limited set of packages to build, including dependencies.  For me, if I 
> have a issue, I usually start with emerge -e system to see if it
> helps. Since there is some KDE stuff in there, that makes it build
> packages that I most likely don't need to be rebuilt.  To me, KDE is
> not a system package.

Actually, it is, because you told it to be. To me, KDE is not a system
package, because I run different USE flags to you. Gentoo gave you the
gun but you pointed it at your foot :)


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Top Oxymorons Number 11: Terribly pleased

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Re: [gentoo-user] Why is KDE part of the system set?

[Sebastian Beßler]

Am 24.02.2011 16:21, schrieb Dale:

> I was always under the impression that @system was supposed to be a
> limited set of packages to build, including dependencies. For me, if I
> have a issue, I usually start with emerge -e system to see if it helps.
> Since there is some KDE stuff in there, that makes it build packages
> that I most likely don't need to be rebuilt. To me, KDE is not a system
> package.

Then remove the kde-Flag from every package in @system and its 
dependecies. After that remove all the unneeded flags from all the other 
packages.
The tools are there, you just have to use them right.

Re: [gentoo-user] Why is KDE part of the system set?

[Dale]

Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Thu, 24 Feb 2011 09:21:54 -0600, Dale wrote:
>
>    
>> I was always under the impression that @system was supposed to be a
>> limited set of packages to build, including dependencies.  For me, if I
>> have a issue, I usually start with emerge -e system to see if it
>> helps. Since there is some KDE stuff in there, that makes it build
>> packages that I most likely don't need to be rebuilt.  To me, KDE is
>> not a system package.
>>      
> Actually, it is, because you told it to be. To me, KDE is not a system
> package, because I run different USE flags to you. Gentoo gave you the
> gun but you pointed it at your foot :)
>
>
>    

I didn't tell portage to include KDE, qt, and a boatload of other stuff 
to be part of @system.  Did I enable the kde USE flag, yea.  That should 
be part of the world stuff not the system stuff.  If I disable kde, qt 
and all the others then my GUI is going to be junk if it would even work 
at all.

I guess the kernel will have the kde USE flag next.  lol  At least that 
should be in @system tho.  ;-)

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] Why is KDE part of the system set?

[Mark Knecht]

On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 7:21 AM, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
> Neil Bothwick wrote:
>>
>> On Thu, 24 Feb 2011 07:03:06 -0600, Dale wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>> I just wonder if the devs have noticed how much this has grown when
>>> packages with X flags are included in the system set?.  Would Gnome do
>>> the same?  What about other GUI's?
>>>
>>
>> What does it matter? They are only dependencies of @system, but they will
>> also be dependencies of @world, because you have emerged kde-meta, so
>> either way they would be on your system.
>>
>> There is nothing wrong with your system, it is doing exactly what you
>> told it to with your USE flags, and the kde flag is not the culprit
>> anyway as emerge -ep @system doesn't bring in any KDE stuff here.
>>
>>
>
> I was always under the impression that @system was supposed to be a limited
> set of packages to build, including dependencies.  For me, if I have a
> issue, I usually start with emerge -e system to see if it helps.  Since
> there is some KDE stuff in there, that makes it build packages that I most
> likely don't need to be rebuilt.  To me, KDE is not a system package.
>
> It is doing what it is told but it is also doing things that it didn't use
> to do even when told the same as it is being told now.  It wasn't to long
> ago that system was about 150 packages and didn't take that long to
> recompile.  Now it is over 400.  If this continues, the difference between
> system and world is going to be small.
>
> It may not be broke but it seems the system set is growing pretty quick.
>
> Dale

Dale,
   As Neil states, it has a lot to do with what you told the machine to do.

   I have a new, very clean, stable (not ~amd64) laptop using the kde
profile. emerge -ep @system says 191 packages and I'm writing this
response from that machine inside KDE so it has to be something else
in your case.

   I posted something a couple of years ago about using -java in
make.conf because I found with +java I got almost twice as many
packages in @system. (Except it wasn't @system at the time) I started
putting java flags in package.use and got things to work the way I
wanted - easy to rebuild @system, java on the packages I really wanted
java support. I suspect what you are seeing is far more in that vein
than anything else.

Good luck,
Mark

Re: [gentoo-user] Why is KDE part of the system set?

[Mark Knecht]

On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 9:41 AM, Mark Knecht <markknecht@gmail.com> wrote:
<SNIP>
>
>   I posted something a couple of years ago about using -java in
> make.conf because I found with +java I got almost twice as many
> packages in @system. (Except it wasn't @system at the time) I started
> putting java flags in package.use and got things to work the way I
> wanted - easy to rebuild @system, java on the packages I really wanted
> java support. I suspect what you are seeing is far more in that vein
> than anything else.

In fact, on this laptop, if all I do is change the profile I've selected then

-ep @system results:
10.0 -> 167 packages
10.0/desktop -> 191 packages
10.0/gnome -> 268 packages
10.0/kde -> 191 packages
10.0/developer -> 245 packages
10.0/no-multilib - 167 packages
10.0/server - 145 packages

So, as you can see, even the profile you choose has a big effect on a
system with very few use flags in make.cong or package.use.

- Mark

Re: [gentoo-user] Why is KDE part of the system set?

[Neil Bothwick]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1491 bytes --]

On Thu, 24 Feb 2011 11:34:09 -0600, Dale wrote:

> > Actually, it is, because you told it to be. To me, KDE is not a system
> > package, because I run different USE flags to you. Gentoo gave you the
> > gun but you pointed it at your foot :)

> I didn't tell portage to include KDE, qt, and a boatload of other stuff 
> to be part of @system.  Did I enable the kde USE flag, yea.  That
> should be part of the world stuff not the system stuff.

Which is probably why the kde flag does NOT pull in all that stuff.

You can't on the one hand tell portage to build the packages with support
for some other packages, then on the other hand complain that they are
dependencies. Note the KDE is not and never will be part of @system, by
your own post that still contains 50 packages, it is your choices that
have created the huge dependency list for @system.

Save the output of emerge -epvt @system to a file, or print it out, then
work through to see which choices you have made that created this list of
dependencies.

Or accept that they were going to be installed anyway, as part of @world
if not @system, and do something useful with your life :)

> If I disable
> kde, qt and all the others then my GUI is going to be junk if it would
> even work at all.

Incorrect. You can install KDE without the kde USE flag, none of the
packages in kde-meta respect the kde USE flag.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Every time I jump on the bandwagon all its wheels fall off.

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Re: [gentoo-user] Why is KDE part of the system set?

[Walter Dnes]

On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 11:34:09AM -0600, Dale wrote

> I didn't tell portage to include KDE, qt, and a boatload of other stuff 
> to be part of @system.  Did I enable the kde USE flag, yea.  That should 
> be part of the world stuff not the system stuff.  If I disable kde, qt 
> and all the others then my GUI is going to be junk if it would even work 
> at all.

  What you're saying is that you want *SOME*, but not all, packages to
be built with certain flags.  That's what package.use was designed for.
If you enable "kde" globally in your USE var, everything that can be
built with KDE support will be built with KDE support.  If you enable it
for only certain packages, it will only show up for certain packages.

  You have "kde" and "symantic-desktop" in your USE, sorry, you're going
to pull in a lot of crap, no if's-and's-or's-but's.  BTW, I assure you
that I am absolutely neutral in the GNOME/KDE war...  the pox on both
their houses.  I didn't buy a computer to run desktops, I bought a
computer to run applications.

  Now it's possible that many of the flags in your "combined" USE are
pulled in by your profile.  The way to avoid that is to start your USE
with "-*" and only add what is absolutely necessary, either in USE in
make.conf or on a package-by-package basis in package.use.  I started
doing that some years ago after the developers "in their infinite
wisdom" decided to include "ipv6" by default.  Firefox and mplayer and
anything else that connected to the net would spin their wheels for 30
to 45 seconds, while IPV6 DNS requests timed out, and then fall back to
IPV4.  I did *NOT* appreciate that.

> I guess the kernel will have the kde USE flag next.  lol  At least
> that should be in @system tho.  ;-)

  Check your profile.  Is it kde-desktop?  And while you're at it, set
your "ALSA_CARDS" variable in /etc/make.conf.  It seems to be pulling in
everything by default.

-- 
Walter Dnes <waltdnes@waltdnes.org>

Re: [gentoo-user] Why is KDE part of the system set?

[Dale]

Walter Dnes wrote:
> On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 11:34:09AM -0600, Dale wrote
>
>    
>> I didn't tell portage to include KDE, qt, and a boatload of other stuff
>> to be part of @system.  Did I enable the kde USE flag, yea.  That should
>> be part of the world stuff not the system stuff.  If I disable kde, qt
>> and all the others then my GUI is going to be junk if it would even work
>> at all.
>>      
>    What you're saying is that you want *SOME*, but not all, packages to
> be built with certain flags.  That's what package.use was designed for.
> If you enable "kde" globally in your USE var, everything that can be
> built with KDE support will be built with KDE support.  If you enable it
> for only certain packages, it will only show up for certain packages.
>    

Not exactly.  I'm saying I don't think X stuff should be in the system 
set regardless of USE flags.  Not to long ago, there was only a 150 or 
so packages for system regardless of the USE flags.  That has changed.  
I have had KDE installed on this system since day one as well as on my 
old system.  Only recently has KDE and other X stuff been pulled into 
the system set.

>    You have "kde" and "symantic-desktop" in your USE, sorry, you're going
> to pull in a lot of crap, no if's-and's-or's-but's.  BTW, I assure you
> that I am absolutely neutral in the GNOME/KDE war...  the pox on both
> their houses.  I didn't buy a computer to run desktops, I bought a
> computer to run applications.
>    

True, it does pull in a lot.  That shouldn't be in the system set tho.  
It wasn't in the past and it shouldn't be now either.

>    Now it's possible that many of the flags in your "combined" USE are
> pulled in by your profile.  The way to avoid that is to start your USE
> with "-*" and only add what is absolutely necessary, either in USE in
> make.conf or on a package-by-package basis in package.use.  I started
> doing that some years ago after the developers "in their infinite
> wisdom" decided to include "ipv6" by default.  Firefox and mplayer and
> anything else that connected to the net would spin their wheels for 30
> to 45 seconds, while IPV6 DNS requests timed out, and then fall back to
> IPV4.  I did *NOT* appreciate that.
>
>    

If I am going to put "-*" in my make.conf, I may as well not select any 
profile except for the base profile.  After all, that disables 
everything that the kde profile enables.  Since I use KDE about 99.99% 
of the time, I may as well use that profile.  ;-)

I rarely put anything in package.use.  As you can tell by my USE line, 
it's hard enough keeping up with config files already.  It's more than 
enough fun trying to keep up with package.mask.  You know, you add a 
package to package.unmask but forgot it is in package.mask and can't 
figure out why it is still masked.  A person could go in circles for a 
while before thinking about it being masked locally instead of by a dev 
in the tree.  lol  I'm pleading the 5th on the number of times that has 
happened too.  My lips are sealed.  :-|

>> I guess the kernel will have the kde USE flag next.  lol  At least
>> that should be in @system tho.  ;-)
>>      
>    Check your profile.  Is it kde-desktop?  And while you're at it, set
> your "ALSA_CARDS" variable in /etc/make.conf.  It seems to be pulling in
> everything by default.
>
>    
I thought the ALSA_CARDS was set but it was commented out.  I guess I 
put it in but forgot to remove the # so that it would see the setting.  
I guess my sound would have worked regardless of what sound card I had.  
lol

To make my point, in the past couple days I was having random reboots.  
I booted from a USB stick, mounted my partitions and wanted to do a 
QUICK emerge -e system.  Here I go compiling KDE stuff that works and 
doesn't need to be recompiled.  I'm not to concerned about KDE, I'm just 
wanting to recompile the root of my system, the system packages and a 
new kernel.  I didn't need KDE pulled into the mix.

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] Why is KDE part of the system set?

[Mark Knecht]

On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 8:10 PM, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
<SNIP>
> Not to long ago, there was only a 150 or so
> packages for system regardless of the USE flags.

I think that you are just mistaken about this point. I have pretty
much always been able to make @system package count blow up by turning
on lots of flags.

As I say, my server has >350 packages in @system including X and gnome
stuff because of flags. The KDE laptop I just did for my mom has
around 190, no X, no gnome, etc.

It's all in the flag choices.

But why worry? In the old days I did worry because the machines were
slower and I couldn't do an @world update very often. Today on a
modern processor I can rebuild @world with 900 packages in a few
hours. It's not as big a deal anymore (to me anyway) that @system
seems a little bloated. It's not bloated when you build a new system.
It's only after you start making flag choices that it happens.

- Mark

Re: [gentoo-user] Why is KDE part of the system set?

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Fri, 25 Feb 2011 22:10:27 -0600, Dale wrote:

> Not exactly.  I'm saying I don't think X stuff should be in the system 
> set regardless of USE flags.

There is no X stuff in @system. what you are seeing is that some
dependencies of @system have X in their IUSE, so pull in X, but that
doesn't make X part of @system, nor make it a requirement for your
computer to run.

You have set the X flag, by choosing a desktop profile, so why do you
object to X programs being installed?


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Top Oxymorons Number 46: Found missing

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Re: [gentoo-user] Why is KDE part of the system set?

[Dale]

Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Fri, 25 Feb 2011 22:10:27 -0600, Dale wrote:
>
>    
>> Not exactly.  I'm saying I don't think X stuff should be in the system
>> set regardless of USE flags.
>>      
> There is no X stuff in @system. what you are seeing is that some
> dependencies of @system have X in their IUSE, so pull in X, but that
> doesn't make X part of @system, nor make it a requirement for your
> computer to run.
>
> You have set the X flag, by choosing a desktop profile, so why do you
> object to X programs being installed?
>
>    

I see your point but that isn't what I have been talking about.  When I 
run emerge -e system, it pulls in a bunch of X stuff including KDE.  
Yea, it is because of USE flags but that didn't used to be the case.  If 
I recall correctly, my system set and all its dependencies used to be 
147 packages.  Now it is over 400 packages which includes things that 
have nothing to do with booting or running portage.

I don't object to having X stuff installed, I just don't think it should 
be pulled into the system set.  When I do a emerge -e system, it should 
be only stuff that is related to booting, running portage and such, not 
GUI stuff.

If this continues to grow, the system set is going to catch up with the 
world set.

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] Why is KDE part of the system set?

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Sat, 26 Feb 2011 09:24:18 -0600, Dale wrote:

> I see your point but that isn't what I have been talking about.  When I 
> run emerge -e system, it pulls in a bunch of X stuff including KDE.  
> Yea, it is because of USE flags but that didn't used to be the case.
> If I recall correctly, my system set and all its dependencies used to
> be 147 packages.  Now it is over 400 packages which includes things
> that have nothing to do with booting or running portage.

The most likely cause of which is that you have changed your USE flags.

Incidentally, this KDE netbook installs 218 packages for -e @system. My
headless server does 94. You must have USE="kitchen-sink" to top 400.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Mac screen message: "Like, dude, something went wrong."

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Re: [gentoo-user] Why is KDE part of the system set?

[Mike Gilbert]

On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 10:24 AM, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
> I don't object to having X stuff installed, I just don't think it should be
> pulled into the system set.

The system set (@system) is comprised ONLY of the packages listed in
the various "packages" files under /usr/portage/profiles. The
dependencies of the packages are NOT part of @system.

What you are saying is that packages in @system should never be
allowed to optionally have GUI functionality enabled. That's just
stupid.

If you want the smalled possible depgraph for @system, don't enable
any USE flags for the packages in @system. It is just that simple.