[gentoo-user] Linksys router BEFSR41 loosing internet

[gentoo-user] Linksys router BEFSR41 loosing internet

[Dale]

Hi,

I bought this router the other day.  I notice something that is a little 
weird.  When I first wake up and try to check my email, the internet is 
dead.  The light on my DSL modem is red and Seamonkey can't check my 
email or load a webpage.  If I unplug the router then plug it back up, 
it works fine.  It seems that after a while the router cuts off the 
internet for some reason.

I need the internet to stay alive even when I am asleep.  I run folding 
and it sends data without asking me and some other stuff is running as 
well.  I have looked in the settings of the router but I don't see 
anything that will change this.  Am I missing something?  Is this 
normal?  I used a router once before and I don't remember this being a 
issue.

I also updated the firmware and it still does it.  Feature?  Wrong 
setting?  Router broke?

Dale

:-)  :-)

[gentoo-user] Re: Linksys router BEFSR41 loosing internet

[walt]

On 12/17/2010 12:31 PM, Dale wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I bought this router the other day. I notice something that is a little weird. When I first wake up and try to check my email, the internet is dead. The light on my DSL modem is red and Seamonkey can't check my email or load a webpage. If I unplug the
> router then plug it back up, it works fine. It seems that after a while the router cuts off the internet for some reason.
>
> I need the internet to stay alive even when I am asleep. I run folding and it sends data without asking me and some other stuff is running as well. I have looked in the settings of the router but I don't see anything that will change this. Am I missing
> something? Is this normal? I used a router once before and I don't remember this being a issue.
>
> I also updated the firmware and it still does it. Feature? Wrong setting? Router broke?

I've had experience with only two DSL routers, but they both have a settable
timer which shuts down the connection after N minutes of inactivity.  I'm
guessing that yours has a similar adjustment, but dunno for sure.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Linksys router BEFSR41 loosing internet

[Dale]

walt wrote:
> On 12/17/2010 12:31 PM, Dale wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I bought this router the other day. I notice something that is a 
>> little weird. When I first wake up and try to check my email, the 
>> internet is dead. The light on my DSL modem is red and Seamonkey 
>> can't check my email or load a webpage. If I unplug the
>> router then plug it back up, it works fine. It seems that after a 
>> while the router cuts off the internet for some reason.
>>
>> I need the internet to stay alive even when I am asleep. I run 
>> folding and it sends data without asking me and some other stuff is 
>> running as well. I have looked in the settings of the router but I 
>> don't see anything that will change this. Am I missing
>> something? Is this normal? I used a router once before and I don't 
>> remember this being a issue.
>>
>> I also updated the firmware and it still does it. Feature? Wrong 
>> setting? Router broke?
>
> I've had experience with only two DSL routers, but they both have a 
> settable
> timer which shuts down the connection after N minutes of inactivity.  I'm
> guessing that yours has a similar adjustment, but dunno for sure.
>
>

I called myself looking for something like that but I can't find it if 
it is in there.  It is annoying.  It would be OK if when I wanted to go 
to a url, check my email or folding wanted to send in data, that it 
would start back up.  Thing is, I have to restart the router to get it 
to work.  I mean actually unplug the power and then plug it back in.

I'll be looking some more but not sure where else to look.  I'm hoping 
for ideas.

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] Linksys router BEFSR41 loosing internet

[Paul Hartman]

On Fri, Dec 17, 2010 at 2:31 PM, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I bought this router the other day.  I notice something that is a little
> weird.  When I first wake up and try to check my email, the internet is
> dead.  The light on my DSL modem is red and Seamonkey can't check my email
> or load a webpage.  If I unplug the router then plug it back up, it works
> fine.  It seems that after a while the router cuts off the internet for some
> reason.
>
> I need the internet to stay alive even when I am asleep.  I run folding and
> it sends data without asking me and some other stuff is running as well.  I
> have looked in the settings of the router but I don't see anything that will
> change this.  Am I missing something?  Is this normal?  I used a router once
> before and I don't remember this being a issue.
>
> I also updated the firmware and it still does it.  Feature?  Wrong setting?
>  Router broke?

Most DSL/Cable modems have a web interface built into them where you
can view status, diagnostics and most importantly logs. I think if you
can google your modem model and figure out how to access this, it
might provide some useful information. (Older modems might have a
telnet interface rather than web)

Is the light red normally, or is that indicative of a problem? Does
the manual say what the color of the light means?

Has it ever happened in day-time or does it only happen at night? I
wonder if the ISP does some kind of reset and the modem's not
reconnecting automatically.

The opposite of the disconnect that Walt mentioned would be some kind
of keepalive setting. Since you're running Folding which uses network
data I don't think you should be triggering any kind of idle
disconnect (unless it has a kb/sec threshold). DSL is usually
advertised as "always on" so it seems weird if they would do that to
you.

I went through 2 cable modems within a month because they kept dying
in one way or another. I didn't own them so I just drove 3 miles down
the street and swapped it for a new one at the local cable company
office.

It seems like more of the computer and electronics problems I have (or
that people bring to me) are related to power supply failures than any
other reason. If you have another compatible power supply, maybe you
could try using it for a couple days to see if it makes any
difference.

Re: [gentoo-user] Linksys router BEFSR41 loosing internet

[Dale]

Paul Hartman wrote:
> Most DSL/Cable modems have a web interface built into them where you
> can view status, diagnostics and most importantly logs. I think if you
> can google your modem model and figure out how to access this, it
> might provide some useful information. (Older modems might have a
> telnet interface rather than web)
>    

I can access it with Seamonkey.  I had to do that to get it to work at 
all.  The router and the modem were both trying to get 192.168.1.1 and 
the fight was on.  Same problem I ran into once before.  Anyway.

> Is the light red normally, or is that indicative of a problem? Does
> the manual say what the color of the light means?
>    

Before I bought the router, the light would be red if I had my puter cut 
off for a while.  The modem senses the ethernet is not hooked up and 
logs off.  As soon as I cut the puter back on, it goes green again.  It 
usually does this when the BIOS screen is up or by the time the grub 
screen comes up.  It's pretty quick on that.

> Has it ever happened in day-time or does it only happen at night? I
> wonder if the ISP does some kind of reset and the modem's not
> reconnecting automatically.
>    

I have had it to do this during the day and night.  I didn't think about 
that before tho.  They do reset about 4 or so in the morning usually on 
Wednesday.  It is so fast that even Seamonkey doesn't time out.  It will 
knock me off youtube if I am watching a video tho.  I guess it looses 
the stream.  Other than that, it just appears the website is a little 
slow for a few seconds.

> The opposite of the disconnect that Walt mentioned would be some kind
> of keepalive setting. Since you're running Folding which uses network
> data I don't think you should be triggering any kind of idle
> disconnect (unless it has a kb/sec threshold). DSL is usually
> advertised as "always on" so it seems weird if they would do that to
> you.
>    

The modem is set as always on.  I did that when I first got it and it 
has not given me any trouble until the router got into the mix.  I also 
have ntp running.  When it went offline last time, my clock was off 30 
seconds.  :/

> I went through 2 cable modems within a month because they kept dying
> in one way or another. I didn't own them so I just drove 3 miles down
> the street and swapped it for a new one at the local cable company
> office.
>
> It seems like more of the computer and electronics problems I have (or
> that people bring to me) are related to power supply failures than any
> other reason. If you have another compatible power supply, maybe you
> could try using it for a couple days to see if it makes any
> difference.
>
>    

I don't have another P/S to test.  When it is dead tho, the lights are 
on on the router.  I can even access it through the web interface.  It 
just doesn't wake up the connection to the internet.  It acts like it 
cuts off the connection between the router and the modem and just 
doesn't reconnect when there is activity.

Little update.  I went to town a bit ago and it was still up when I got 
back.  I also noticed that it went back to 192.168.1.1 for its address 
too.  I'm not sure why it did that but it did.  Maybe it is going to 
hang in there for a while.  Time will tell.  I figure since I posted the 
question, it will fix itself.  lol

Thanks.

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] Linksys router BEFSR41 loosing internet

[Paul Hartman]

On Fri, Dec 17, 2010 at 6:35 PM, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
> Paul Hartman wrote:
>>
>> Most DSL/Cable modems have a web interface built into them where you
>> can view status, diagnostics and most importantly logs. I think if you
>> can google your modem model and figure out how to access this, it
>> might provide some useful information. (Older modems might have a
>> telnet interface rather than web)
>>
>
> I can access it with Seamonkey.  I had to do that to get it to work at all.
>  The router and the modem were both trying to get 192.168.1.1 and the fight
> was on.  Same problem I ran into once before.  Anyway.

Hmm, maybe it could be an IP address conflict if one or both of them
keep trying to go back to using the same address. I had that problem
at work where a printer and a computer both had been assigned the same
IP and would "randomly" go offline or have connectivity issues for no
apparent reason, until we finally realized what was going on and
changed the IP to something else.

Re: [gentoo-user] Linksys router BEFSR41 loosing internet

[Dale]

Paul Hartman wrote:
> On Fri, Dec 17, 2010 at 6:35 PM, Dale<rdalek1967@gmail.com>  wrote:
>    
>> Paul Hartman wrote:
>>      
>>> Most DSL/Cable modems have a web interface built into them where you
>>> can view status, diagnostics and most importantly logs. I think if you
>>> can google your modem model and figure out how to access this, it
>>> might provide some useful information. (Older modems might have a
>>> telnet interface rather than web)
>>>
>>>        
>> I can access it with Seamonkey.  I had to do that to get it to work at all.
>>   The router and the modem were both trying to get 192.168.1.1 and the fight
>> was on.  Same problem I ran into once before.  Anyway.
>>      
> Hmm, maybe it could be an IP address conflict if one or both of them
> keep trying to go back to using the same address. I had that problem
> at work where a printer and a computer both had been assigned the same
> IP and would "randomly" go offline or have connectivity issues for no
> apparent reason, until we finally realized what was going on and
> changed the IP to something else.
>
>    

Well so far it has been working.  Maybe it got things worked out and 
DHCP is working it out.  Maybe it needed a little training time.  lol

Both modem and router are set to use DHCP.  I should know when I get 
some sleep next time.  I'm not sure when that will be tho.

Dale

:-)  :-)

[gentoo-user] Re: Linksys router BEFSR41 loosing internet

[James]

Paul Hartman <paul.hartman+gentoo <at> gmail.com> writes:


> > I bought this router the other day.  I notice something that is a little
> > weird. 
> It seems like more of the computer and electronics problems I have (or
> that people bring to me) are related to power supply failures than any
> other reason. 

Shot in the dark:

Make sure the router is on a UPS. Often you do not have power
failures, but power "glitches" such as low voltage, particularly
if the temperature has "spiked cold" in your area. Of if the 
local power companies is a slacker, like most of them are.
Some areas are frequently "swung" from one substation to 
another substation, as the power grid managers try to 
minimize the operational costs and balance the distribution
network. This sort of activity will kill UPS and batteries,
prematurely.

All UPS need to be tested to ensure the batteries are good
every few months. If you can wire in addition jel-cel batteries
in parallel so as to extend capacity and ease the drain-charge
cycles on your UPS equipment.

Best thing to do, is hook up a 100 watt (150) incadescent
bulb and fixture and just pull the power cord. If the light
flickers or goes brown or out too soon, your UPS may
need either a new battery or if your UPS power circuitry
is of poor quality or old, just replace the UPS.

Power quality is a big problem, the world over and often
the detection requires subtle interrogation, or a purchase
to fix it. 

A "Leroy fix" is to plug a smaller capacity UPS into a
larger UPS that is connected to the wall outlet, to prevent
voltages sags due to old or poor quality electronics of the
UPS(es).

If you need batteries, I know of a good (cheap) supplier
for Lead_acid batteries, in the US..... so just drop me
a line.


Another idea, find out what voltage (DC?) your router
uses, if it has an external power supply; it will be marked
on the power supply. If you are lucky it uses 12VDC or 5-6 VDC
and you can splice in Jel-Cell batteries of the appropriate
voltage, for extra energy storage or to limit voltage sag.


Just some random ideas and watch out for neighbors running too
many christmas lights or a welder in the neighborhood.
Power quality issues usually magnify during periods of peak demand.


hth,
James

Re: [gentoo-user] Linksys router BEFSR41 loosing internet

[Dale]

Dale wrote:
>
> Well so far it has been working.  Maybe it got things worked out and 
> DHCP is working it out.  Maybe it needed a little training time.  lol
>
> Both modem and router are set to use DHCP.  I should know when I get 
> some sleep next time.  I'm not sure when that will be tho.
>
> Dale
>
> :-)  :-)
>

I took me a nice nap.  I woke up and the light was red again and no 
internet.  I accessed the router and it thinks it is up.  It shows a 
internet IP and all.  It looks normal but I can't get to the internet.

I also tried to renew the DHCP settings.  I was hoping it would recheck 
the connection between the router and modem but it didn't appear to do 
anything at all.  The red light was still on anyway.

I still can't find a setting for time outs or anything.  Is this 
something that is set but can't be changed my the user?  Any other ideas?

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Linksys router BEFSR41 loosing internet

[Dale]

James wrote:
> Paul Hartman<paul.hartman+gentoo<at>  gmail.com>  writes:
>
>
>    
>>> I bought this router the other day.  I notice something that is a little
>>> weird.
>>>        
>> It seems like more of the computer and electronics problems I have (or
>> that people bring to me) are related to power supply failures than any
>> other reason.
>>      
> Shot in the dark:
>
> Make sure the router is on a UPS. Often you do not have power
> failures, but power "glitches" such as low voltage, particularly
> if the temperature has "spiked cold" in your area. Of if the
> local power companies is a slacker, like most of them are.
> Some areas are frequently "swung" from one substation to
> another substation, as the power grid managers try to
> minimize the operational costs and balance the distribution
> network. This sort of activity will kill UPS and batteries,
> prematurely.
>
> All UPS need to be tested to ensure the batteries are good
> every few months. If you can wire in addition jel-cel batteries
> in parallel so as to extend capacity and ease the drain-charge
> cycles on your UPS equipment.
>
> Best thing to do, is hook up a 100 watt (150) incadescent
> bulb and fixture and just pull the power cord. If the light
> flickers or goes brown or out too soon, your UPS may
> need either a new battery or if your UPS power circuitry
> is of poor quality or old, just replace the UPS.
>
> Power quality is a big problem, the world over and often
> the detection requires subtle interrogation, or a purchase
> to fix it.
>
> A "Leroy fix" is to plug a smaller capacity UPS into a
> larger UPS that is connected to the wall outlet, to prevent
> voltages sags due to old or poor quality electronics of the
> UPS(es).
>
> If you need batteries, I know of a good (cheap) supplier
> for Lead_acid batteries, in the US..... so just drop me
> a line.
>
>
> Another idea, find out what voltage (DC?) your router
> uses, if it has an external power supply; it will be marked
> on the power supply. If you are lucky it uses 12VDC or 5-6 VDC
> and you can splice in Jel-Cell batteries of the appropriate
> voltage, for extra energy storage or to limit voltage sag.
>
>
> Just some random ideas and watch out for neighbors running too
> many christmas lights or a welder in the neighborhood.
> Power quality issues usually magnify during periods of peak demand.
>
>
> hth,
> James
>
>    

I have it plugged up to the same UPS my puter uses.  I changed the 
battery about a year ago and it is plenty large enough.  It runs at 
about 40% load.   I doubt it is a power issue.

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Linksys router BEFSR41 loosing internet

[David Abbott]

Dale you still use att or bellsouth DSL ?
I connect like this [10 port switch] => [linksys router running ddwrt]
=> [DSL modem westell 6100]
I put the modem in ip passthru [1] to the router, the modem validates
the connection with att and the router does every thing else.
[1] http://nooone.info/downloads/IP_Passthru.png

-- 
David Abbott (dabbott)
Gentoo
http://dev.gentoo.org/~dabbott/

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Linksys router BEFSR41 loosing internet

[Dale]

David Abbott wrote:
> Dale you still use att or bellsouth DSL ?
> I connect like this [10 port switch] =>  [linksys router running ddwrt]
> =>  [DSL modem westell 6100]
> I put the modem in ip passthru [1] to the router, the modem validates
> the connection with att and the router does every thing else.
> [1] http://nooone.info/downloads/IP_Passthru.png
>
>    

OK.  I changed the setting and restarted the modem.  I'll check when I 
take my next nap and see if it helps.

By the way, folding stopped on one of my processes because it couldn't 
send in the data and get a new packet.  This router better straighten up 
soon.  ;-)  It's cold and I need the heat.  lol

Thanks for the tip.

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Linksys router BEFSR41 loosing internet

[Mark Knecht]

On Sat, Dec 18, 2010 at 2:33 PM, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
<SNIP>
>
> I have it plugged up to the same UPS my puter uses.  I changed the battery
> about a year ago and it is plenty large enough.  It runs at about 40% load.
>   I doubt it is a power issue.
>
> Dale
>
> :-)  :-)
>
>

Multiple people in the Linksys forums seem to have the same problem:

http://homecommunity.cisco.com/t5/Wired-Routers/BEFSR41-loses-connection/m-p/233266#M21765

http://homecommunity.cisco.com/t5/Wired-Routers/BEFSR41-Losing-Connection-Frequently/m-p/206185#M19557

Note that one post seemed to consider this device as 'old' in 2008'.

QUESTION: You purchased the BEFSR41 to support routing to the new
machines along with the old machine, correct? The red light is on the
DSL modem according to the first post. I guess that modem only has a
singleLAN port? What leads you to believe the problem is with the
router and not the modem?

Cheers,
Mark

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Linksys router BEFSR41 loosing internet

[Dale]

Mark Knecht wrote:
> On Sat, Dec 18, 2010 at 2:33 PM, Dale<rdalek1967@gmail.com>  wrote:
> <SNIP>
>    
>> I have it plugged up to the same UPS my puter uses.  I changed the battery
>> about a year ago and it is plenty large enough.  It runs at about 40% load.
>>    I doubt it is a power issue.
>>
>> Dale
>>
>> :-)  :-)
>>
>>
>>      
> Multiple people in the Linksys forums seem to have the same problem:
>
> http://homecommunity.cisco.com/t5/Wired-Routers/BEFSR41-loses-connection/m-p/233266#M21765
>
> http://homecommunity.cisco.com/t5/Wired-Routers/BEFSR41-Losing-Connection-Frequently/m-p/206185#M19557
>
> Note that one post seemed to consider this device as 'old' in 2008'.
>
> QUESTION: You purchased the BEFSR41 to support routing to the new
> machines along with the old machine, correct? The red light is on the
> DSL modem according to the first post. I guess that modem only has a
> singleLAN port? What leads you to believe the problem is with the
> router and not the modem?
>
> Cheers,
> Mark
>
>    

Well, before I hooked up the router, it never did this before.  The only 
time the light was red before was when they were reseting the box up the 
road or my puter was turned off.  Since the only thing that changed was 
the router, I sort of figure it has something to do with it.  I have had 
this DSL for over a year so I would think it would have did something 
weird by now.

If it does it again, I'm going to hook my puter back up straight to the 
modem and see if it works then.  That should rule out any changes up the 
road somewhere and the modem.

I'm going to read up on the links you posted.

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Linksys router BEFSR41 loosing internet

[Mark Knecht]

On Sat, Dec 18, 2010 at 3:58 PM, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
<SNIP>
>>
>> Multiple people in the Linksys forums seem to have the same problem:
>>
>>
>> http://homecommunity.cisco.com/t5/Wired-Routers/BEFSR41-loses-connection/m-p/233266#M21765
>>
>>
>> http://homecommunity.cisco.com/t5/Wired-Routers/BEFSR41-Losing-Connection-Frequently/m-p/206185#M19557
>>
>> Note that one post seemed to consider this device as 'old' in 2008'.
>>
>> QUESTION: You purchased the BEFSR41 to support routing to the new
>> machines along with the old machine, correct? The red light is on the
>> DSL modem according to the first post. I guess that modem only has a
>> singleLAN port? What leads you to believe the problem is with the
>> router and not the modem?
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Mark
>>
>>
>
> Well, before I hooked up the router, it never did this before.  The only
> time the light was red before was when they were reseting the box up the
> road or my puter was turned off.  Since the only thing that changed was the
> router, I sort of figure it has something to do with it.  I have had this
> DSL for over a year so I would think it would have did something weird by
> now.
>
> If it does it again, I'm going to hook my puter back up straight to the
> modem and see if it works then.  That should rule out any changes up the
> road somewhere and the modem.
>
> I'm going to read up on the links you posted.

Yeah, makes sense.

I use a LinkSys WRT54G for my Cable Modem ISP and a 327W for my DSL
line. The only time I've had problems like you suggest were:

1) The ISP was having trouble. WIth Comcast this can go on for weeks at a time.

2) The unit was bad.

In the case of #2 replacing it fixed things right up.

Good luck,
Mark

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Linksys router BEFSR41 loosing internet

[Dale]

Mark Knecht wrote:
> On Sat, Dec 18, 2010 at 3:58 PM, Dale<rdalek1967@gmail.com>  wrote:
> <SNIP>
>    
>>> Multiple people in the Linksys forums seem to have the same problem:
>>>
>>>
>>> http://homecommunity.cisco.com/t5/Wired-Routers/BEFSR41-loses-connection/m-p/233266#M21765
>>>
>>>
>>> http://homecommunity.cisco.com/t5/Wired-Routers/BEFSR41-Losing-Connection-Frequently/m-p/206185#M19557
>>>
>>> Note that one post seemed to consider this device as 'old' in 2008'.
>>>
>>> QUESTION: You purchased the BEFSR41 to support routing to the new
>>> machines along with the old machine, correct? The red light is on the
>>> DSL modem according to the first post. I guess that modem only has a
>>> singleLAN port? What leads you to believe the problem is with the
>>> router and not the modem?
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Mark
>>>
>>>
>>>        
>> Well, before I hooked up the router, it never did this before.  The only
>> time the light was red before was when they were reseting the box up the
>> road or my puter was turned off.  Since the only thing that changed was the
>> router, I sort of figure it has something to do with it.  I have had this
>> DSL for over a year so I would think it would have did something weird by
>> now.
>>
>> If it does it again, I'm going to hook my puter back up straight to the
>> modem and see if it works then.  That should rule out any changes up the
>> road somewhere and the modem.
>>
>> I'm going to read up on the links you posted.
>>      
> Yeah, makes sense.
>
> I use a LinkSys WRT54G for my Cable Modem ISP and a 327W for my DSL
> line. The only time I've had problems like you suggest were:
>
> 1) The ISP was having trouble. WIth Comcast this can go on for weeks at a time.
>
> 2) The unit was bad.
>
> In the case of #2 replacing it fixed things right up.
>
> Good luck,
> Mark
>
>    

I think it is a setting or something and I just can't fine it.  I have 
clicked about everything I can think of to find something but no luck so 
far.  I hope the IP passthrough thing will work.  I hope anyway.

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] Linksys router BEFSR41 loosing internet

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Fri, 17 Dec 2010 21:27:09 -0600, Dale wrote:

> Both modem and router are set to use DHCP.  I should know when I get 
> some sleep next time.  I'm not sure when that will be tho.

So what is providing the DHCP service?


-- 
Neil Bothwick

The truth shall make you free, but first it shall piss you off.

[-- Attachment #2: signature.asc --]
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Re: [gentoo-user] Linksys router BEFSR41 loosing internet

[Dale]

Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Fri, 17 Dec 2010 21:27:09 -0600, Dale wrote:
>
>    
>> Both modem and router are set to use DHCP.  I should know when I get
>> some sleep next time.  I'm not sure when that will be tho.
>>      
> So what is providing the DHCP service?
>
>    

Well, I guess they figure it out.  lol  I have the network set to DHCP 
on my puter, the router has it and the modem.  So far, it works out the 
IP part at least.  I really hadn't thought about it that much to be 
honest.  This is the first few hops with a traceroute that shows how it 
is getting to the internet:

traceroute to google.com (74.125.157.104), 30 hops max, 60 byte packets
  1  192.168.1.1 (192.168.1.1)  0.248 ms  0.356 ms  0.480 ms
  2  192.168.1.254 (192.168.1.254)  9.174 ms  9.406 ms  9.639 ms
  3  adsl-95-128-1.jan.bellsouth.net (98.95.XXX.XX)  24.658 ms  34.443 
ms  43.800 ms
  4  12.81.48.52 (12.81.48.52)  66.552 ms  79.846 ms  82.490 ms
  5  12.81.48.46 (12.81.48.46)  100.020 ms  110.546 ms  120.420 ms
  6  ixc01mem-pos-7-0-0.bellsouth.net (65.83.239.97)  130.498 ms  38.126 
ms  39.427 ms

I put some X's in my IP.  We never know who else may be reading this.  
You see anything wrong with the hops?  Should I cut DHCP off on 
something, maybe two somethings?

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] Linksys router BEFSR41 loosing internet

[William Kenworthy]

On Sun, 2010-12-19 at 03:22 -0600, Dale wrote:
> Neil Bothwick wrote:
> > On Fri, 17 Dec 2010 21:27:09 -0600, Dale wrote:
> >
> >    
> >> Both modem and router are set to use DHCP.  I should know when I get
> >> some sleep next time.  I'm not sure when that will be tho.
> >>      
> > So what is providing the DHCP service?
> >
> >    
> 
> Well, I guess they figure it out.  lol  I have the network set to DHCP 
> on my puter, the router has it and the modem.  So far, it works out the 
> IP part at least.  I really hadn't thought about it that much to be 
> honest.  This is the first few hops with a traceroute that shows how it 
> is getting to the internet:
> 
> traceroute to google.com (74.125.157.104), 30 hops max, 60 byte packets
>   1  192.168.1.1 (192.168.1.1)  0.248 ms  0.356 ms  0.480 ms
>   2  192.168.1.254 (192.168.1.254)  9.174 ms  9.406 ms  9.639 ms
>   3  adsl-95-128-1.jan.bellsouth.net (98.95.XXX.XX)  24.658 ms  34.443 
> ms  43.800 ms
>   4  12.81.48.52 (12.81.48.52)  66.552 ms  79.846 ms  82.490 ms
>   5  12.81.48.46 (12.81.48.46)  100.020 ms  110.546 ms  120.420 ms
>   6  ixc01mem-pos-7-0-0.bellsouth.net (65.83.239.97)  130.498 ms  38.126 
> ms  39.427 ms
> 
> I put some X's in my IP.  We never know who else may be reading this.  
> You see anything wrong with the hops?  Should I cut DHCP off on 
> something, maybe two somethings?
> 
> Dale
> 
> :-)  :-)

Hi Dale, running two or more dhcp servers that are not in sync on a
network is asking for trouble.  Traceroute wont help with dhcp as its
broadcast/unicast.

I am not sure if you have posted the full setup yet, but it appears you
have two devices running on the same class C network and are trying to
route? - doesnt make sense unless you are subnetting?

Perhaps it time to post an annotated ascii diagram of what you are
actually doing.

BillK

Re: [gentoo-user] Linksys router BEFSR41 loosing internet

[Dale]

William Kenworthy wrote:
> Hi Dale, running two or more dhcp servers that are not in sync on a
> network is asking for trouble.  Traceroute wont help with dhcp as its
> broadcast/unicast.
>
> I am not sure if you have posted the full setup yet, but it appears you
> have two devices running on the same class C network and are trying to
> route? - doesnt make sense unless you are subnetting?
>
> Perhaps it time to post an annotated ascii diagram of what you are
> actually doing.
>
> BillK
>
>    

I never could draw.  It's pretty simple tho.  Computer >> router >> DSL 
modem >> internet.   That ascii enough?  ;-)   Told you it was simple.  
I do plan to add a second puter before to long tho.  I got to figure out 
where to put the thing tho.

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] Linksys router BEFSR41 loosing internet

[Peter Humphrey]

On Sunday 19 December 2010 10:10:56 Dale wrote:

> It's pretty simple tho.  Computer >> router >> DSL modem >> internet.  

Seems to me that the only place you need DHCP is on the DSL side of the 
modem, so that it can request an address from your ISP. If you pay them 
for a static address, that's the one you'll get; otherwise of course 
it'll vary from one occasion to another.

On the inner side of the DSL modem I suggest you fix an address, say 
192.168.0.1, then 192.168.0.2 on the router's modem interface, then 
192.168.1.1 on the router's LAN interface. All those with a 24-bit mask 
for simplicity. (I used to use a 29-bit mask, but that only leaves six 
addresses free and it was too restrictive.)

You could run DHCP in the router if you wanted to, to save yourself 
setting manual addresses on your computers, but personally I don't 
bother with DHCP as I prefer to know what address belongs to which 
interface. It's not as though I had hundreds of boxes to keep abreast 
of, after all.

-- 
Rgds
Peter.          Linux Counter 5290, 1994-04-23.

Re: [gentoo-user] Linksys router BEFSR41 loosing internet

[Dale]

Peter Humphrey wrote:
> On Sunday 19 December 2010 10:10:56 Dale wrote:
>
>    
>> It's pretty simple tho.  Computer>>  router>>  DSL modem>>  internet.
>>      
> Seems to me that the only place you need DHCP is on the DSL side of the
> modem, so that it can request an address from your ISP. If you pay them
> for a static address, that's the one you'll get; otherwise of course
> it'll vary from one occasion to another.
>
> On the inner side of the DSL modem I suggest you fix an address, say
> 192.168.0.1, then 192.168.0.2 on the router's modem interface, then
> 192.168.1.1 on the router's LAN interface. All those with a 24-bit mask
> for simplicity. (I used to use a 29-bit mask, but that only leaves six
> addresses free and it was too restrictive.)
>
> You could run DHCP in the router if you wanted to, to save yourself
> setting manual addresses on your computers, but personally I don't
> bother with DHCP as I prefer to know what address belongs to which
> interface. It's not as though I had hundreds of boxes to keep abreast
> of, after all.
>
>    

This was fun.  I tried to set it up the way you explained but apparently 
I ain't to good with this.  Now the router don't work at all and I had 
to hit the reset button on the modem.  I'm glad I could remember the 
password.  :/

OK.  The IP I get from AT&T is set by them and it changes.  I think that 
is dynamic not static.  So, I assume that part of the connection has to 
be DHCP.  Correct?  That was how I left it anyway.

Where does this network idiot go from here?  I think the modem got mad 
when I told it to let the router set the IP between it and the modem.  
The computer seemed to talk to the router just fine but had not internet 
IP address.  It was blank.

Dale

:-)  :-)

P. S.  Going to look for a howto to see if it at least helps me 
understand how this works.

Re: [gentoo-user] Linksys router BEFSR41 loosing internet

[William Kenworthy]

On Sun, 2010-12-19 at 05:53 -0600, Dale wrote:
> Peter Humphrey wrote:
> > On Sunday 19 December 2010 10:10:56 Dale wrote:
> >
> >    
> >> It's pretty simple tho.  Computer>>  router>>  DSL modem>>  internet.
> >>      
> > Seems to me that the only place you need DHCP is on the DSL side of the
> > modem, so that it can request an address from your ISP. If you pay them
> > for a static address, that's the one you'll get; otherwise of course
> > it'll vary from one occasion to another.
> >
> > On the inner side of the DSL modem I suggest you fix an address, say
> > 192.168.0.1, then 192.168.0.2 on the router's modem interface, then
> > 192.168.1.1 on the router's LAN interface. All those with a 24-bit mask
> > for simplicity. (I used to use a 29-bit mask, but that only leaves six
> > addresses free and it was too restrictive.)
> >
> > You could run DHCP in the router if you wanted to, to save yourself
> > setting manual addresses on your computers, but personally I don't
> > bother with DHCP as I prefer to know what address belongs to which
> > interface. It's not as though I had hundreds of boxes to keep abreast
> > of, after all.
> >
> >    
> 
> This was fun.  I tried to set it up the way you explained but apparently 
> I ain't to good with this.  Now the router don't work at all and I had 
> to hit the reset button on the modem.  I'm glad I could remember the 
> password.  :/
> 
> OK.  The IP I get from AT&T is set by them and it changes.  I think that 
> is dynamic not static.  So, I assume that part of the connection has to 
> be DHCP.  Correct?  That was how I left it anyway.
> 
> Where does this network idiot go from here?  I think the modem got mad 
> when I told it to let the router set the IP between it and the modem.  
> The computer seemed to talk to the router just fine but had not internet 
> IP address.  It was blank.
> 
> Dale
> 
> :-)  :-)
> 
> P. S.  Going to look for a howto to see if it at least helps me 
> understand how this works.
> 

Dale, 

point 1 is that the problem you seem to have is that your two dhcp
systems are each giving out IP's from the same range, and as both are
starting at the same number, thats where the clash occurs.  Simple fix
is to change the ranges so they dont overlap.  Bottom line, you should
have only one dhcp server per network (as defined by the subnet mask)
unless you pin IP numbers (as in bootp),  use different ranges for each
or other trickery.  Or statically assign ip numbers and be done with it!

Point 2 is dhcp is non-routable as it broadcasts (as always, there are
ways to deal with this - but I dont think you have dhcp-relay going on.)
- dhcp clients broadcast for an address, and the server sends the
address back unicast - so clients on different network segments cant see
others broadcasts - for instance a layer 3 router blocks broadcasts.

point 3 is that the adsl modem is normally a dhcp client to the external
network (as its ip address is supplied by the ISP), and a server for the
internal network to supply IP numbers from its own pool of addresses to
your internal machines.

Point 4 is that the network design sucks.  Can you list what ip
number/subnet mask you have on the internal PC, the router internal
interface, the router external interface and the adsl modem internal
interface.  And on which device the NAT/firewall is happening (please
done say both ... :(

Point 5 ... thats enuf for now :)


BillK




-- 
William Kenworthy <billk@iinet.net.au>
Home in Perth!

Re: [gentoo-user] Linksys router BEFSR41 loosing internet

[Peter Humphrey]

On Sunday 19 December 2010 11:53:33 Dale wrote:

> This was fun.

:-)

> I tried to set it up the way you explained but
> apparently I ain't to good with this.  Now the router don't work at
> all and I had to hit the reset button on the modem.  I'm glad I
> could remember the password.  :/

Ook!

> OK.  The IP I get from AT&T is set by them and it changes.  I think
> that is dynamic not static.  So, I assume that part of the
> connection has to be DHCP.  Correct?  That was how I left it anyway.

Yes, that's right. So your modem's outer connection sends a DHCP request 
over the phone line, gets a name and an address and sets itself up to 
use them. So far so good.

> Where does this network idiot go from here?  I think the modem got
> mad when I told it to let the router set the IP between it and the
> modem.

Ah! I think I see what happened here. The modem won't be able to ask for 
an address on its inner side; you'll have to tell it what address to use 
as it's going to be the fixed point that other devices use to get out to 
the Internet. Then tell your router what address to use to talk to it. 
(If you're like me you'll get confused over which connection you're 
working on while setting up two-interface devices.)

Would you mind telling me why you have a router between yourself and the 
modem? (Maybe you've told us already and I missed it.) If all the 
connections are via Ethernet you can omit the router for the moment and 
get a connection established direct to the modem. Once that's working 
you can put the router back and we can think about getting it working 
too.

> P.S. Going to look for a howto to see if it at least helps me
> understand how this works.

Good idea - maybe it'll make better sense to you than I do   :-)

-- 
Rgds
Peter.          Linux Counter 5290, 1994-04-23.

Re: [gentoo-user] Linksys router BEFSR41 loosing internet

[Stroller]

On 17/12/2010, at 8:31pm, Dale wrote:
> ...
> I bought this router the other day.  I notice something that is a little weird.  When I first wake up and try to check my email, the internet is dead.

I have an alternative suggestion - I apologise if you find it unhelpful - but why don't you sent this router back and get a Buffalo WZR-HP-G300NH, instead?

The Buffalo WZR-HP-G300NH ships with dd-wrt Linux pre-installed. I plan to flash one with OpenWRT and configure it from the command-line. If I have problems with it I'll then be able to post "I tried this iptables command but ..." or look in /var/log and see what's going on. You may find it works just fine with the default firmware & Buffalo's fancy GUI, but the great thing about Linux is that you can fix it yourself!

http://wiki.openwrt.org/toh/buffalo/wzr-hp-g300h

IIRC the guys in #openwrt don't think much of current Linksys models.

You have already wasted a bunch of time on this problem. Why waste any more?

The TP-Link TP-Link TL-WR1043ND is also quite well-regarded, I think - it has lower specifications, but is a bit cheaper. The Netgear WNDR3700 is considered cream of the commodity routers right now (for its CPU speed and dual channel wifi, IIRC) but is a bit more expensive.

http://wiki.openwrt.org/toh/tp-link/tl-wr1043nd
http://wiki.openwrt.org/toh/netgear/wndr3700

Stroller.

Re: [gentoo-user] Linksys router BEFSR41 loosing internet

[Dale]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 3192 bytes --]

William Kenworthy wrote:
> Dale,
>
> point 1 is that the problem you seem to have is that your two dhcp
> systems are each giving out IP's from the same range, and as both are
> starting at the same number, thats where the clash occurs.  Simple fix
> is to change the ranges so they dont overlap.  Bottom line, you should
> have only one dhcp server per network (as defined by the subnet mask)
> unless you pin IP numbers (as in bootp),  use different ranges for each
> or other trickery.  Or statically assign ip numbers and be done with it!
>
> Point 2 is dhcp is non-routable as it broadcasts (as always, there are
> ways to deal with this - but I dont think you have dhcp-relay going on.)
> - dhcp clients broadcast for an address, and the server sends the
> address back unicast - so clients on different network segments cant see
> others broadcasts - for instance a layer 3 router blocks broadcasts.
>
> point 3 is that the adsl modem is normally a dhcp client to the external
> network (as its ip address is supplied by the ISP), and a server for the
> internal network to supply IP numbers from its own pool of addresses to
> your internal machines.
>
> Point 4 is that the network design sucks.  Can you list what ip
> number/subnet mask you have on the internal PC, the router internal
> interface, the router external interface and the adsl modem internal
> interface.  And on which device the NAT/firewall is happening (please
> done say both ... :(
>
> Point 5 ... thats enuf for now :)
>
>
> BillK
>
>    

Well, I'm not real sure at times what thing has what IP.  I found this 
on the modem tho:

IP Address / Name 	MAC Address 	Connection Status 	Connection Type
192.168.1.1/ fireball 	1c-6f-65-4c-91-c7 	Offline 	Ethernet
192.168.1.2/ 00259C49FD9D 	00-25-9c-49-fd-9d 	Active 	Ethernet
192.168.1.4/ * 	1c-6f-65-4c-91-c7 	Offline 	Ethernet
192.168.1.6/ * 	00-25-9c-49-fd-9d 	Offline 	Ethernet


The one that says "active" is the router currently connected.  I got it 
to working again.  ;-)  It looks like the modem "remembers" what is 
hooked up and what IPs it was assigned.  Neat huh.   I can't find the 
same thing in the router tho.

I found a how to.  I read it.  This is what I got out of it.  It sounds 
like I need to let the modem use DHCP with the phone company.  Then I 
need to set the ethernet that comes toward the router to say 192.168.1.2 
then set the router to 192.168.1.5 or something to come to my puter..  
Then when I hook up my second puter, I can assign it 192.168.1.6 or 
something.  Best I can figure, no two can have the same IP.  Each device 
has two IPs, one coming in, one going out.  That part sort of confuses 
me a bit.  I need a chalk board for this.

I think the how to may have made this worse.   :-(

I don't know if the reset changed this or not but I did notice that the 
setting "connection type" was set to "on demand" again.  I put it back 
to "always on" which is what I set it to once before.  I was told it 
watches for http traffic and if there is none for a while, it logs off.  
Since I check email, have Kopete running and ntp plus others running, I 
need it on all the time.

Still muddy?  I know it is here.

Dale

:-)  :-)

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 4404 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-user] Linksys router BEFSR41 loosing internet

[Dale]

Peter Humphrey wrote:
> On Sunday 19 December 2010 11:53:33 Dale wrote:
>
>    
>> This was fun.
>>      
> :-)
>
>    
>> I tried to set it up the way you explained but
>> apparently I ain't to good with this.  Now the router don't work at
>> all and I had to hit the reset button on the modem.  I'm glad I
>> could remember the password.  :/
>>      
> Ook!
>
>    

I got the router working again.  Reset button and turning them on in 
sequence got it to working again.  Yeppie !!

>> OK.  The IP I get from AT&T is set by them and it changes.  I think
>> that is dynamic not static.  So, I assume that part of the
>> connection has to be DHCP.  Correct?  That was how I left it anyway.
>>      
> Yes, that's right. So your modem's outer connection sends a DHCP request
> over the phone line, gets a name and an address and sets itself up to
> use them. So far so good.
>
>    
>> Where does this network idiot go from here?  I think the modem got
>> mad when I told it to let the router set the IP between it and the
>> modem.
>>      
> Ah! I think I see what happened here. The modem won't be able to ask for
> an address on its inner side; you'll have to tell it what address to use
> as it's going to be the fixed point that other devices use to get out to
> the Internet. Then tell your router what address to use to talk to it.
> (If you're like me you'll get confused over which connection you're
> working on while setting up two-interface devices.)
>
> Would you mind telling me why you have a router between yourself and the
> modem? (Maybe you've told us already and I missed it.) If all the
> connections are via Ethernet you can omit the router for the moment and
> get a connection established direct to the modem. Once that's working
> you can put the router back and we can think about getting it working
> too.
>    

Well, I plan to put another puter on the network before to long.  I'll 
have two computers and one internet connection so in comes the router.  
Right now, I'm trying to get one to work.  Then maybe I will understand 
how to add another.  That's the plan anyway.

>    
>> P.S. Going to look for a howto to see if it at least helps me
>> understand how this works.
>>      
> Good idea - maybe it'll make better sense to you than I do   :-)
>
>    

I read two of them.  I think it is more muddier now than it was.  It 
didn't seem to help a lot.  Once I get confused, I'm stuck.  Once I get 
it tho, I got it.

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] Linksys router BEFSR41 loosing internet

[Dale]

Stroller wrote:
> On 17/12/2010, at 8:31pm, Dale wrote:
>    
>> ...
>> I bought this router the other day.  I notice something that is a little weird.  When I first wake up and try to check my email, the internet is dead.
>>      
> I have an alternative suggestion - I apologise if you find it unhelpful - but why don't you sent this router back and get a Buffalo WZR-HP-G300NH, instead?
>
> The Buffalo WZR-HP-G300NH ships with dd-wrt Linux pre-installed. I plan to flash one with OpenWRT and configure it from the command-line. If I have problems with it I'll then be able to post "I tried this iptables command but ..." or look in /var/log and see what's going on. You may find it works just fine with the default firmware&  Buffalo's fancy GUI, but the great thing about Linux is that you can fix it yourself!
>
> http://wiki.openwrt.org/toh/buffalo/wzr-hp-g300h
>
> IIRC the guys in #openwrt don't think much of current Linksys models.
>
> You have already wasted a bunch of time on this problem. Why waste any more?
>
> The TP-Link TP-Link TL-WR1043ND is also quite well-regarded, I think - it has lower specifications, but is a bit cheaper. The Netgear WNDR3700 is considered cream of the commodity routers right now (for its CPU speed and dual channel wifi, IIRC) but is a bit more expensive.
>
> http://wiki.openwrt.org/toh/tp-link/tl-wr1043nd
> http://wiki.openwrt.org/toh/netgear/wndr3700
>
> Stroller.
>
>    

That may be plan b.  My car started acting up the other day and I may 
have to get yet another distributor for it.  I replaced it a couple 
years ago.  They seem to have a batch of sensors that have a short life 
span.  Anyway, that may have to be put off to later if I need to buy 
something for my car.

It looks like they are wireless.  I didn't see a wired one.  I use wired 
because I live just a few miles from a Air Force Base.  They fly right 
over the house.  They even knock out my satellite signal sometimes.  I 
was told that having things wired should be fine but wireless could be 
fun to deal with.  They fly close enough to me that I can see a helmet 
in the plane.  They even wave at times.  lol

Then again, we did try to do this through my old Linux puter.  I 
couldn't get that to work either.  When it comes to networking, I'm a 
idiot.  I know how to hook it up but that's about it.  It would be neat 
to learn tho.

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] Linksys router BEFSR41 loosing internet

[Peter Humphrey]

On Sunday 19 December 2010 13:17:51 Dale wrote:

> I found a how to.  I read it.  This is what I got out of it.  It
> sounds like I need to let the modem use DHCP with the phone company.

Correct.

> Then I need to set the ethernet that comes toward the router to say
> 192.168.1.2 then set the router to 192.168.1.5 or something to come
> to my puter.

Those two addresses must be on the same network segment, but they aren't 
- you have your router in between (it routes traffic between one network 
segment and the other). The side of the router that's connected to the 
modem can have that address, but the side that's connected to your 
computers can't have 192.168.1.X. Try 192.168.2.1, say, and your 
computers 192.168.2.2, 192.168.2.3, ...

> Best I can figure, no two can have the same IP.  Each device has two
> IPs, one coming in, one going out.

Yes, each address belongs to an interface, not to a computer, modem etc. 
Think of it as the address of one end of a piece of wire.

> I think the how to may have made this worse.   :-(

Nah - sounds to me like you're getting there...     :-)

-- 
Rgds
Peter.          Linux Counter 5290, 1994-04-23.

Re: [gentoo-user] Linksys router BEFSR41 loosing internet

[Mark Knecht]

>
> I found a how to.  I read it.  This is what I got out of it.  It sounds like I need to let the modem use DHCP with the phone company.

[MWK] Yes

>Then I need to set the ethernet that comes toward the router to say 192.168.1.2

[MWK] No. Set the WAN side of your router to use DHCP. The modem and
your ISP will assign the address to the WAN side.

>then set the router to 192.168.1.5 or something to come to my puter..

Actually, it should get set automatically to something like
192.168.1.1. Make sure you are using Gateway mode on the Advanced
Routing tab. No computer should be set to this address.

Turn on DHCP in the Router for your internal network and start at
192.168.1.200 or something way out there. Allow 10 addresses.


> Then when I hook up my second puter, I can assign it 192.168.1.6 or something.  Best I can figure, no two can have the same IP.  Each device has two IPs, one coming in, one going out.  That part sort of confuses me a bit.  I need a chalk board for this.

Each Ethernet NIC has one IP address. If you want to use fixed IP's
then set them to anything from 192.168.1.2 to 192.168.1.199 so as to
not conflict with the Router or DHCP.


>
> I think the how to may have made this worse.   :-(
>
> I don't know if the reset changed this or not but I did notice that the setting "connection type" was set to "on demand" again.  I put it back to "always on" which is what I set it to once before.  I was told it watches for http traffic and if there is none for a while, it logs off.  Since I check email, have Kopete running and ntp plus others running, I need it on all the time.

That 'On Demand' thing isn't something I see in my LinkSys but I have
a different model than you so who knows.

Good luck,
Mark

Re: [gentoo-user] Linksys router BEFSR41 loosing internet

[Stroller]

On 19/12/2010, at 1:36pm, Dale wrote:

> Stroller wrote:
>> On 17/12/2010, at 8:31pm, Dale wrote:
>>   
>>> ...
>>> I bought this router the other day.  I notice something that is a little weird.  When I first wake up and try to check my email, the internet is dead.
>>>     
>> I have an alternative suggestion - I apologise if you find it unhelpful - but why don't you sent this router back and get a Buffalo WZR-HP-G300NH, instead?
>> 
>> The Buffalo WZR-HP-G300NH ships with dd-wrt Linux pre-installed. I plan to flash one with OpenWRT and configure it from the command-line.
>> ...
> 
> That may be plan b. ...
> 
> It looks like they are wireless.  I didn't see a wired one.  I use wired because I live just a few miles from a Air Force Base.  They fly right over the house.  They even knock out my satellite signal sometimes.  I was told that having things wired should be fine but wireless could be fun to deal with.  They fly close enough to me that I can see a helmet in the plane.  They even wave at times.  lol

It occurred to me after posting, "I bet he's not using wifi"!

You could probably just disable the wireless interface, but it seems silly to buy such a good router only to do that. You should look on the OpenWRT wiki and find one of the wires-only routers they list as compatible. 

I feel networking to be a really important skill in computing, but it can be hard to diagnose problems if you're insulated from what's going on by a dumbass GUI.

Stroller.

[gentoo-user] Re: Linksys router BEFSR41 loosing internet

[walt]

On 12/19/2010 05:36 AM, Dale wrote:
> My car started acting up the other day and I may have to get
 > yet another distributor for it...

If your car is still using a distributor, your computer should
still be using an 8086 ;)

Re: [gentoo-user] Linksys router BEFSR41 loosing internet

[Dale]

Stroller wrote:
> On 19/12/2010, at 1:36pm, Dale wrote:
>
>    
>> Stroller wrote:
>>      
>>> On 17/12/2010, at 8:31pm, Dale wrote:
>>>
>>>        
>>>> ...
>>>> I bought this router the other day.  I notice something that is a little weird.  When I first wake up and try to check my email, the internet is dead.
>>>>
>>>>          
>>> I have an alternative suggestion - I apologise if you find it unhelpful - but why don't you sent this router back and get a Buffalo WZR-HP-G300NH, instead?
>>>
>>> The Buffalo WZR-HP-G300NH ships with dd-wrt Linux pre-installed. I plan to flash one with OpenWRT and configure it from the command-line.
>>> ...
>>>        
>> That may be plan b. ...
>>
>> It looks like they are wireless.  I didn't see a wired one.  I use wired because I live just a few miles from a Air Force Base.  They fly right over the house.  They even knock out my satellite signal sometimes.  I was told that having things wired should be fine but wireless could be fun to deal with.  They fly close enough to me that I can see a helmet in the plane.  They even wave at times.  lol
>>      
> It occurred to me after posting, "I bet he's not using wifi"!
>
> You could probably just disable the wireless interface, but it seems silly to buy such a good router only to do that. You should look on the OpenWRT wiki and find one of the wires-only routers they list as compatible.
>
> I feel networking to be a really important skill in computing, but it can be hard to diagnose problems if you're insulated from what's going on by a dumbass GUI.
>
> Stroller.
>    

Or worse yet, there is a idiot using the GUI.  ;-)

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Linksys router BEFSR41 loosing internet

[Stroller]

On 19/12/2010, at 7:02pm, walt wrote:

> On 12/19/2010 05:36 AM, Dale wrote:
>> My car started acting up the other day and I may have to get yet another distributor for it...
> 
> If your car is still using a distributor, your computer should
> still be using an 8086 ;)

Between 1978 and today the performance improvement of CPUs has been a bit more significant than that of mass-market cars, however.  ;)

I have a BMW aircooled twin. She's loooovely, and does a tonne quite happily.

Stroller.

[gentoo-user] Re: Linksys router BEFSR41 loosing internet

[walt]

On 12/19/2010 05:17 AM, Dale wrote:

> I don't know if the reset changed this or not but I did notice
 > that the setting "connection type" was set to "on demand" again.
 > I put it back to "always on" which is what I set it to once before.

That was the timeout thingy I mentioned earlier.  If you set it to
"always on" the timer should be disabled, and hence you don't need
to set the timer at all.

I can't recall if resetting my router erases *all* of such user
settings, but I think it does -- including the password, BTW,

I recently learned something interesting from an ATT support tech
(in India):  resetting (i.e. rebooting) the router by pushing the
little button with the end of a paperclip is *not* equivalent to
disconnecting/reconnecting the power and *then* pushing the reset
button.

I.E. there is some state of the internal hardware that is not reset
by pushing the reset button on the router.  I had tried everything
I could think of *except* powering off the DLS modem and the router
at the same time, and then letting both power up again.  That fixed
everything.

I imagine these annoying quirks will differ between products, so
we all may need different bags of tricks to fix such problems.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Linksys router BEFSR41 loosing internet

[Dale]

walt wrote:
> On 12/19/2010 05:36 AM, Dale wrote:
>> My car started acting up the other day and I may have to get
> > yet another distributor for it...
>
> If your car is still using a distributor, your computer should
> still be using an 8086 ;)
>

It is a 1994 Mazda Protege.  I LOVE that little car.  I get about 30 MPG 
and it runs good.  I changed plugs in it one time a while back and when 
looked into the hole, I saw something shiney. I thought I had dropped 
something in there somehow.  Naturally I wanted to get that out.  It is 
a DOHC engine so it has that long tube to where the plug goes.  After 
some checking, it was the top of the piston I was seeing.  I run Marvel 
Mystery Oil in the gas and it is so clean in there, it looked shiney.

It may have almost 200,000 miles on it but I would rather have it than a 
brand new car.  I'm thinking about getting a distributor made by a 3rd 
party.  Maybe they will have a better sensor than the one Mazda makes.  
I just don't want to have to change anything else so finding a drop in 
replacement should be fun.  Affording it should be fun to.  Cheap they 
ain't.  :/

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Linksys router BEFSR41 loosing internet

[Dale]

walt wrote:
> On 12/19/2010 05:17 AM, Dale wrote:
>
>> I don't know if the reset changed this or not but I did notice
> > that the setting "connection type" was set to "on demand" again.
> > I put it back to "always on" which is what I set it to once before.
>
> That was the timeout thingy I mentioned earlier.  If you set it to
> "always on" the timer should be disabled, and hence you don't need
> to set the timer at all.
>
> I can't recall if resetting my router erases *all* of such user
> settings, but I think it does -- including the password, BTW,
>
> I recently learned something interesting from an ATT support tech
> (in India):  resetting (i.e. rebooting) the router by pushing the
> little button with the end of a paperclip is *not* equivalent to
> disconnecting/reconnecting the power and *then* pushing the reset
> button.
>
> I.E. there is some state of the internal hardware that is not reset
> by pushing the reset button on the router.  I had tried everything
> I could think of *except* powering off the DLS modem and the router
> at the same time, and then letting both power up again.  That fixed
> everything.
>
> I imagine these annoying quirks will differ between products, so
> we all may need different bags of tricks to fix such problems.
>

I did notice that my username was there.  I just knew I was going to 
need it and I couldn't even remember the login name.  Then I remembered 
that I saved in Seamonkey password file.  Whew !

I noticed on the router that to completely reset it, you have to push 
the reset button and hold it for 30 seconds or more.  It said it even 
resets the firmware.  I have not tested this theory tho.

I wonder how that would work with the modem tho.  I'm just curious tho.

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] Linksys router BEFSR41 loosing internet

[Dale]

Peter Humphrey wrote:
> On Sunday 19 December 2010 13:17:51 Dale wrote:
>
>    
>> I found a how to.  I read it.  This is what I got out of it.  It
>> sounds like I need to let the modem use DHCP with the phone company.
>>      
> Correct.
>
>    
>> Then I need to set the ethernet that comes toward the router to say
>> 192.168.1.2 then set the router to 192.168.1.5 or something to come
>> to my puter.
>>      
> Those two addresses must be on the same network segment, but they aren't
> - you have your router in between (it routes traffic between one network
> segment and the other). The side of the router that's connected to the
> modem can have that address, but the side that's connected to your
> computers can't have 192.168.1.X. Try 192.168.2.1, say, and your
> computers 192.168.2.2, 192.168.2.3, ...
>
>    
>> Best I can figure, no two can have the same IP.  Each device has two
>> IPs, one coming in, one going out.
>>      
> Yes, each address belongs to an interface, not to a computer, modem etc.
> Think of it as the address of one end of a piece of wire.
>
>    
>> I think the how to may have made this worse.   :-(
>>      
> Nah - sounds to me like you're getting there...     :-)
>
>    

Ohhhh.  Light bulb moment here, I think.  The modem has a network, even 
tho it only has one device connected to it.  The router has its own 
network but can have 4 devices connected to it.  So, if the modem has 
192.168.1.1 >255 then the router needs 192.168.2.1 >255 which is two 
separate networks.

So, if that is true, set the modem to 192.168.1.1 for its IP.  Then set 
the router to to 192.168.2.1 for it's network.  That would give my puter 
a IP and the second puter another IP and they can talk to each other 
since they are on the same network.  Is my light bulb OK so far?

By the way, I feel asleep watching TV, missed my show too.  The internet 
was still up when I got up.  I think that setting on the modem got 
changed during a reset, upgrade on its software or something.  It 
updates software automatically.

Dale

:-)  :-)

[gentoo-user] Re: Linksys router BEFSR41 loosing internet

[walt]

On 12/19/2010 12:11 PM, Dale wrote:

> I noticed on the router that to completely reset it, you have to push
 > the reset button and hold it for 30 seconds or more. It said it even
 > resets the firmware. I have not tested this theory tho.

Just to clarify: you've said in other posts that you've repeatedly reset
the router.  Did you hold the reset button for 30 seconds, or not?

The only two routers I've actually used have the same 30-second requirement.
I don't recall now if I ever pushed the reset button for less than 30 sec.

Forgive me if I don't try that experiment on this particular Sunday PM :)

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Linksys router BEFSR41 loosing internet

[Dale]

walt wrote:
> On 12/19/2010 12:11 PM, Dale wrote:
>
>> I noticed on the router that to completely reset it, you have to push
> > the reset button and hold it for 30 seconds or more. It said it even
> > resets the firmware. I have not tested this theory tho.
>
> Just to clarify: you've said in other posts that you've repeatedly reset
> the router.  Did you hold the reset button for 30 seconds, or not?
>
> The only two routers I've actually used have the same 30-second 
> requirement.
> I don't recall now if I ever pushed the reset button for less than 30 
> sec.
>
> Forgive me if I don't try that experiment on this particular Sunday PM :)
>

I didn't push the reset button at all.  Actually, I just unplugged it 
and did a "normal" reset.  According to the book, power off just makes 
it redo the DHCP stuff.  Pressing the reset button briefly I would think 
would do the same thing but maybe a little faster.  Pressing the reset 
button and holding it for long time resets it back to factory defaults 
including the firmware.  I haven't did that.

I fell asleep again tho.  The internet was still working when I got on 
here this time.  I bet that setting got changed in the modem during a 
software upgrade and I didn't know it.

I do want to figure this all out tho.  I want fireball to get a fixed IP 
from the router and I want smoker to get a fixed IP from the router.  I 
think I know how to do that much.  I'm going to go do some looking 
around in the screens and see what I can do.

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] Linksys router BEFSR41 loosing internet

[Dale]

Mark Knecht wrote:
>> I found a how to.  I read it.  This is what I got out of it.  It sounds like I need to let the modem use DHCP with the phone company.
>>      
> [MWK] Yes
>
>    
>> Then I need to set the ethernet that comes toward the router to say 192.168.1.2
>>      
> [MWK] No. Set the WAN side of your router to use DHCP. The modem and
> your ISP will assign the address to the WAN side.
>
>    
>> then set the router to 192.168.1.5 or something to come to my puter..
>>      
> Actually, it should get set automatically to something like
> 192.168.1.1. Make sure you are using Gateway mode on the Advanced
> Routing tab. No computer should be set to this address.
>
> Turn on DHCP in the Router for your internal network and start at
> 192.168.1.200 or something way out there. Allow 10 addresses.
>
>
>    
>> Then when I hook up my second puter, I can assign it 192.168.1.6 or something.  Best I can figure, no two can have the same IP.  Each device has two IPs, one coming in, one going out.  That part sort of confuses me a bit.  I need a chalk board for this.
>>      
> Each Ethernet NIC has one IP address. If you want to use fixed IP's
> then set them to anything from 192.168.1.2 to 192.168.1.199 so as to
> not conflict with the Router or DHCP.
>
>
>    
>> I think the how to may have made this worse.   :-(
>>
>> I don't know if the reset changed this or not but I did notice that the setting "connection type" was set to "on demand" again.  I put it back to "always on" which is what I set it to once before.  I was told it watches for http traffic and if there is none for a while, it logs off.  Since I check email, have Kopete running and ntp plus others running, I need it on all the time.
>>      
> That 'On Demand' thing isn't something I see in my LinkSys but I have
> a different model than you so who knows.
>
> Good luck,
> Mark
>
>    

This is what I have done so far.  This is my net file:

config_eth0=( "192.168.1.5 netmask 255.255.255.0 brd 192.168.0.255" )
routes_eth0=( "default via 192.168.1.4" )

So that should have fireball at a static IP right?  Now when I add the 
other puter, I can set its IP to something different, say 192.168.1.6, 
and then I know what their IPs will be and can ssh in or whatever 
without having to dig around to find out the IP address.

So far, this seems to be working.  It took me a bit to figure out what 
to set the route to.  That should be the modem.  At first, I could 
access the router but nothing beyond that.  Adding the route helped.  I 
can even get to google.

What have I done wrong so far?

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] Linksys router BEFSR41 loosing internet

[J. Roeleveld]

On Sunday 19 December 2010 21:35:57 Dale wrote:
> Peter Humphrey wrote:
> > On Sunday 19 December 2010 13:17:51 Dale wrote:
> >> I found a how to.  I read it.  This is what I got out of it.  It
> >> sounds like I need to let the modem use DHCP with the phone company.
> > 
> > Correct.
> > 
> >> Then I need to set the ethernet that comes toward the router to say
> >> 192.168.1.2 then set the router to 192.168.1.5 or something to come
> >> to my puter.
> > 
> > Those two addresses must be on the same network segment, but they aren't
> > - you have your router in between (it routes traffic between one network
> > segment and the other). The side of the router that's connected to the
> > modem can have that address, but the side that's connected to your
> > computers can't have 192.168.1.X. Try 192.168.2.1, say, and your
> > computers 192.168.2.2, 192.168.2.3, ...
> > 
> >> Best I can figure, no two can have the same IP.  Each device has two
> >> IPs, one coming in, one going out.
> > 
> > Yes, each address belongs to an interface, not to a computer, modem etc.
> > Think of it as the address of one end of a piece of wire.
> > 
> >> I think the how to may have made this worse.   :-(
> > 
> > Nah - sounds to me like you're getting there...     :-)
> 
> Ohhhh.  Light bulb moment here, I think.  The modem has a network, even
> tho it only has one device connected to it.  The router has its own
> network but can have 4 devices connected to it.  So, if the modem has
> 192.168.1.1 >255 then the router needs 192.168.2.1 >255 which is two
> separate networks.

If I follow you correctly, then yes

> So, if that is true, set the modem to 192.168.1.1 for its IP.  Then set
> the router to to 192.168.2.1 for it's network.  That would give my puter
> a IP and the second puter another IP and they can talk to each other
> since they are on the same network.  Is my light bulb OK so far?

If I follow you correctly, then yes

In schema form:

INTERNET --- <DHCP from ISP> [Modem] <192.168.1.1>---<192.168.1.2> [ROUTER] 
<192.168.2.1> ----- (Other PCs = 192.168.2.2...192.168.2.254)

(Above should have been a single line)

> By the way, I feel asleep watching TV, missed my show too.  The internet
> was still up when I got up.  I think that setting on the modem got
> changed during a reset, upgrade on its software or something.  It
> updates software automatically.

Always usefull :/

Btw, if you use ADSL, an ADSL Modem/Router combination might be easier to 
maintain as then you have the Internet-address and LAN network done correctly 
with default settings.
Or, if your Modem supports it, set it to "bridge" mode so your Router thinks 
it's connected directly to the ISP

--
Joost

Re: [gentoo-user] Linksys router BEFSR41 loosing internet

[Dale]

J. Roeleveld wrote:
> On Sunday 19 December 2010 21:35:57 Dale wrote:
>    
>> Peter Humphrey wrote:
>>      
>>> On Sunday 19 December 2010 13:17:51 Dale wrote:
>>>        
>>>> I found a how to.  I read it.  This is what I got out of it.  It
>>>> sounds like I need to let the modem use DHCP with the phone company.
>>>>          
>>> Correct.
>>>
>>>        
>>>> Then I need to set the ethernet that comes toward the router to say
>>>> 192.168.1.2 then set the router to 192.168.1.5 or something to come
>>>> to my puter.
>>>>          
>>> Those two addresses must be on the same network segment, but they aren't
>>> - you have your router in between (it routes traffic between one network
>>> segment and the other). The side of the router that's connected to the
>>> modem can have that address, but the side that's connected to your
>>> computers can't have 192.168.1.X. Try 192.168.2.1, say, and your
>>> computers 192.168.2.2, 192.168.2.3, ...
>>>
>>>        
>>>> Best I can figure, no two can have the same IP.  Each device has two
>>>> IPs, one coming in, one going out.
>>>>          
>>> Yes, each address belongs to an interface, not to a computer, modem etc.
>>> Think of it as the address of one end of a piece of wire.
>>>
>>>        
>>>> I think the how to may have made this worse.   :-(
>>>>          
>>> Nah - sounds to me like you're getting there...     :-)
>>>        
>> Ohhhh.  Light bulb moment here, I think.  The modem has a network, even
>> tho it only has one device connected to it.  The router has its own
>> network but can have 4 devices connected to it.  So, if the modem has
>> 192.168.1.1>255 then the router needs 192.168.2.1>255 which is two
>> separate networks.
>>      
> If I follow you correctly, then yes
>
>    
>> So, if that is true, set the modem to 192.168.1.1 for its IP.  Then set
>> the router to to 192.168.2.1 for it's network.  That would give my puter
>> a IP and the second puter another IP and they can talk to each other
>> since they are on the same network.  Is my light bulb OK so far?
>>      
> If I follow you correctly, then yes
>
> In schema form:
>
> INTERNET ---<DHCP from ISP>  [Modem]<192.168.1.1>---<192.168.1.2>  [ROUTER]
> <192.168.2.1>  ----- (Other PCs = 192.168.2.2...192.168.2.254)
>
> (Above should have been a single line)
>
>    
>> By the way, I feel asleep watching TV, missed my show too.  The internet
>> was still up when I got up.  I think that setting on the modem got
>> changed during a reset, upgrade on its software or something.  It
>> updates software automatically.
>>      
> Always usefull :/
>
> Btw, if you use ADSL, an ADSL Modem/Router combination might be easier to
> maintain as then you have the Internet-address and LAN network done correctly
> with default settings.
> Or, if your Modem supports it, set it to "bridge" mode so your Router thinks
> it's connected directly to the ISP
>
> --
> Joost
>
>    

I got to do some more work then.  Right now, I can see the router but I 
can't get to the modem.  I did get a static IP for my puter but I think 
I need to adjust it based on what you said was correct.

Even tho I can't get to the modem, the internet works.  Sort of weird 
but I think I know why.  I'll play with it some in a little bit.

Is there a tool that will show how the network is set up?  Sort of like 
a flow chart?

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] Linksys router BEFSR41 loosing internet

[Stroller]

On 19/12/2010, at 8:35pm, Dale wrote:
> ...
> Ohhhh.  Light bulb moment here, I think.  The modem has a network, even tho it only has one device connected to it.  The router has its own network but can have 4 devices connected to it.  So, if the modem has 192.168.1.1 >255 then the router needs 192.168.2.1 >255 which is two separate networks.
> 
> So, if that is true, set the modem to 192.168.1.1 for its IP.  Then set the router to to 192.168.2.1 for it's network.  That would give my puter a IP and the second puter another IP and they can talk to each other since they are on the same network.  Is my light bulb OK so far?

Sounds like you're getting it.

A computer (this includes routers) cannot have two interfaces on the same subnet. They can have multiple network interfaces, as long as they're all on different subnets. A router is a computer with multiple network interfaces, acting to gateway data  between those subnets. 

Whether the machines are on the same subnet is determined by the "subnet mask". If the subnet mask is 255.255.0.0 then only the first two bytes of the IP address need to be the same for the computers to be on the same subnet. I.E. 192.168.1.1 and 192.168.2.3 would be on the same subnet if they had the mask of 255.255.0.0.

But a subnet mask of 255.255.255.0 means that the first 3 bytes need to be the same for them to be on the same subnet - so 192.168.1.1 would be on the same subnet as 192.168.1.2, but not on the same subnet as 192.168.2.3, 192.168.2.4, 192.168.3.3, or 192.168.44.8.

IP addresses and subnet masks can be written more succinctly using the "/" notation. "/16" means "255.255.0.0", "/24" means "255.255.255.0". So 192.168.2.3/16 means "IP address 192.168.2.3, subnet mask 255.255.0.0" whereas 192.168.2.3/24 means "IP address 192.168.2.3, subnet mask 255.255.255.0". Ranges are sometimes written 192.168.1.100-200, but don't do that when you're talking about a whole subnet (1-255) because it just looks odd. Use the slash notation instead, or just say "192.168.1.x and 192.168.2.y". So this email is to say that I don't know what you're doing writing with a ">". :P

On these networks the final .255 address (eg. 192.168.1.255) is reserved for broadcast use, and you cannot allocate it to your PCs. Addresses ending in a .1 (e.g. 192.168.0.1) tend generally to be used for the subnet's gateway (the router).

When a computer wants to send a packet to a computer on a different subnet it send it to the router instead (set in its configuration as the "gateway" to the network, typically the default gateway) with the instructions "hi, please forward this to ...".

Stroller.

Re: [gentoo-user] Linksys router BEFSR41 loosing internet

[Dale]

Stroller wrote:
> Sounds like you're getting it.
>
> A computer (this includes routers) cannot have two interfaces on the same subnet. They can have multiple network interfaces, as long as they're all on different subnets. A router is a computer with multiple network interfaces, acting to gateway data  between those subnets.
>
> Whether the machines are on the same subnet is determined by the "subnet mask". If the subnet mask is 255.255.0.0 then only the first two bytes of the IP address need to be the same for the computers to be on the same subnet. I.E. 192.168.1.1 and 192.168.2.3 would be on the same subnet if they had the mask of 255.255.0.0.
>
> But a subnet mask of 255.255.255.0 means that the first 3 bytes need to be the same for them to be on the same subnet - so 192.168.1.1 would be on the same subnet as 192.168.1.2, but not on the same subnet as 192.168.2.3, 192.168.2.4, 192.168.3.3, or 192.168.44.8.
>
> IP addresses and subnet masks can be written more succinctly using the "/" notation. "/16" means "255.255.0.0", "/24" means "255.255.255.0". So 192.168.2.3/16 means "IP address 192.168.2.3, subnet mask 255.255.0.0" whereas 192.168.2.3/24 means "IP address 192.168.2.3, subnet mask 255.255.255.0". Ranges are sometimes written 192.168.1.100-200, but don't do that when you're talking about a whole subnet (1-255) because it just looks odd. Use the slash notation instead, or just say "192.168.1.x and 192.168.2.y". So this email is to say that I don't know what you're doing writing with a ">". :P
>
> On these networks the final .255 address (eg. 192.168.1.255) is reserved for broadcast use, and you cannot allocate it to your PCs. Addresses ending in a .1 (e.g. 192.168.0.1) tend generally to be used for the subnet's gateway (the router).
>
> When a computer wants to send a packet to a computer on a different subnet it send it to the router instead (set in its configuration as the "gateway" to the network, typically the default gateway) with the instructions "hi, please forward this to ...".
>
> Stroller.
>
>    

I'm kind of getting it.  I read up on netmask and sort of get it but it 
is still murky.  Basically for my little wimpy network, 255.255.255.0 
will suite all my needs.  I think.

I set it up like this.  The modem uses DHCP to get the IP from AT&T.  My 
local IP from the modem is 192.168.1.2.  Then the router has the IP 
192.168.2.1 for my connection to the puter.  The IP of my puter is 
192.168.2.5.  The next puter will be 192.168.2.6 or something different 
anyway.

Basically the modem has its network and the router has its network for 
the LAN.  Another thing I like, I can access the router and modem if 
needed.  I guess 100 for the last number would work too.

I need to read up on the netmask thing some more.  It's still murky for 
sure.

How's it look?  Think it will work for a while?

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] Linksys router BEFSR41 loosing internet

[Peter Humphrey]

On Monday 20 December 2010 09:37:48 Dale wrote:

> I set it up like this.  The modem uses DHCP to get the IP from AT&T. 
> My local IP from the modem is 192.168.1.2.  Then the router has the
> IP 192.168.2.1 for my connection to the puter.  The IP of my puter
> is 192.168.2.5.  The next puter will be 192.168.2.6 or something
> different anyway.

The one thing you didn't mention there is the outer address of your 
router. It needs to be 192.168.1.x where x is anything other than 2. It 
needs to be on the same network segment as the inner side of your modem.

> I need to read up on the netmask thing some more.  It's still murky
> for sure.

(What follows has grown rather long. I hope it doesn't come over too 
much as a lecture.)

It's fairly straightforward once you get the hang of it. The address of 
a device is a 64-bit number, expressed as four 16-bit numbers joined 
with dots. It's just easier to read when split into chunks, but it is 
really a 64-bit number. As in decimal arithmetic, the right-hand digit 
is the least significant.

An interface address consists of two parts: the leftmost part defines a 
group of addresses (the network part) and the rightmost part specifies 
the number of the interface in that group (the host part). The function 
of the network mask is to specify where the boundary is between the 
network part and the host part.

Two conventions are used for expressing where that boundary is: the 
older method is to write, say, 255.255.255.0, which indicates that the 
first 24 bits (three eight-bit numbers - 255 is all-ones in eight bits) 
belong to the network and anything to the right of those can be 
allocated to interfaces in that network. That convention dates from the 
era of plenty of IP addresses in the world and goes along with Class A, 
B, C or D. A class A network has a mask of 255.0.0.0, class B has 
255.255.0.0, class C has 255.255.255.0 and a class D (never used in the 
wild as far as I know) would have 255.255.255.255.

Since the meteoric growth of the Internet this class scheme has become a 
handicap, and a finer division of network scope has become necessary, to 
allow use of, say, 255.255.255.248 as a net mask. Rather than specifying 
a plethora of new classes (we'd need anything up to 60), a shorthand 
notation has been invented in which we just append a number to an 
address to specify the number of bits that identify the network, with 
the rest identifying the host on it (strictly speaking, a host's 
interface on the network, as a host may have more than one interface - 
sometimes even on the same network). This scheme is known as CIDR 
notation. Thus your modem's inner address is, I assume, 192.168.1.2/24, 
which is the same as writing 192.168.1.2 with a mask of 255.255.255.0.

That mask 255.255.255.248 I mentioned specifies 29 bits for the network 
address and three for the hosts on it; that's enough for six computers 
once the ..0 and ..7 addresses are reserved for network address and 
broadcast address. A lot of ISPs use such a scheme for allocating 
address ranges to their customers.

> How's it look?  Think it will work for a while?

Once you've set your router's outer address correctly, yes.

Sorry I was asleep overnight and had to leave you to the tender mercies 
of your compatriots.   :-)

Again, apologies if I've seemed to want to teach my grandmother to suck 
eggs.

-- 
Rgds
Peter.          Linux Counter 5290, 1994-04-23.

Re: [gentoo-user] Linksys router BEFSR41 loosing internet

[Dale]

Peter Humphrey wrote:
> On Monday 20 December 2010 09:37:48 Dale wrote:
>
>    
>> I set it up like this.  The modem uses DHCP to get the IP from AT&T.
>> My local IP from the modem is 192.168.1.2.  Then the router has the
>> IP 192.168.2.1 for my connection to the puter.  The IP of my puter
>> is 192.168.2.5.  The next puter will be 192.168.2.6 or something
>> different anyway.
>>      
> The one thing you didn't mention there is the outer address of your
> router. It needs to be 192.168.1.x where x is anything other than 2. It
> needs to be on the same network segment as the inner side of your modem.
>
>    

Yep, front end is 192.168.1.4 or 5 I think.  Something close to that.   
The last number may be different.  It may be .2 or something.

>> I need to read up on the netmask thing some more.  It's still murky
>> for sure.
>>      
> (What follows has grown rather long. I hope it doesn't come over too
> much as a lecture.)
>
> It's fairly straightforward once you get the hang of it. The address of
> a device is a 64-bit number, expressed as four 16-bit numbers joined
> with dots. It's just easier to read when split into chunks, but it is
> really a 64-bit number. As in decimal arithmetic, the right-hand digit
> is the least significant.
>
> An interface address consists of two parts: the leftmost part defines a
> group of addresses (the network part) and the rightmost part specifies
> the number of the interface in that group (the host part). The function
> of the network mask is to specify where the boundary is between the
> network part and the host part.
>
> Two conventions are used for expressing where that boundary is: the
> older method is to write, say, 255.255.255.0, which indicates that the
> first 24 bits (three eight-bit numbers - 255 is all-ones in eight bits)
> belong to the network and anything to the right of those can be
> allocated to interfaces in that network. That convention dates from the
> era of plenty of IP addresses in the world and goes along with Class A,
> B, C or D. A class A network has a mask of 255.0.0.0, class B has
> 255.255.0.0, class C has 255.255.255.0 and a class D (never used in the
> wild as far as I know) would have 255.255.255.255.
>
> Since the meteoric growth of the Internet this class scheme has become a
> handicap, and a finer division of network scope has become necessary, to
> allow use of, say, 255.255.255.248 as a net mask. Rather than specifying
> a plethora of new classes (we'd need anything up to 60), a shorthand
> notation has been invented in which we just append a number to an
> address to specify the number of bits that identify the network, with
> the rest identifying the host on it (strictly speaking, a host's
> interface on the network, as a host may have more than one interface -
> sometimes even on the same network). This scheme is known as CIDR
> notation. Thus your modem's inner address is, I assume, 192.168.1.2/24,
> which is the same as writing 192.168.1.2 with a mask of 255.255.255.0.
>
> That mask 255.255.255.248 I mentioned specifies 29 bits for the network
> address and three for the hosts on it; that's enough for six computers
> once the ..0 and ..7 addresses are reserved for network address and
> broadcast address. A lot of ISPs use such a scheme for allocating
> address ranges to their customers.
>
>    
>> How's it look?  Think it will work for a while?
>>      
> Once you've set your router's outer address correctly, yes.
>
> Sorry I was asleep overnight and had to leave you to the tender mercies
> of your compatriots.   :-)
>
> Again, apologies if I've seemed to want to teach my grandmother to suck
> eggs.
>
>    

Taking a nap is fine.  I do that sometimes myself.  If worse came to 
worse, I could set my puter to DHCP and hooked straight to the modem.  
That always works.

I seem to have the stuff set up correctly now.  I may try to hook up the 
second rig at least for testing anyway.  I should have set the IP and 
set it to start ssh before the last shutdown.  I didn't tho.  Oh well.

I'm starting to grasp the netmask thingy.  It just has to soak in a 
little bit.  lol

Thanks for the help.

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] Linksys router BEFSR41 loosing internet

[J. Roeleveld]

On Monday 20 December 2010 11:44:11 Peter Humphrey wrote:
> (What follows has grown rather long. I hope it doesn't come over too
> much as a lecture.)
> 
> It's fairly straightforward once you get the hang of it. The address of
> a device is a 64-bit number, expressed as four 16-bit numbers joined
> with dots. It's just easier to read when split into chunks, but it is
> really a 64-bit number. As in decimal arithmetic, the right-hand digit
> is the least significant.

For the sake of the archives, I do need to correct you here.
With the current IP-numbers (IPv4) it's a 32-bit number, expressed as four 8-
bit numbers (A byte is 8 bit)

--
Joost

Re: [gentoo-user] Linksys router BEFSR41 loosing internet

[Peter Humphrey]

On Monday 20 December 2010 12:04:27 J. Roeleveld wrote:

> For the sake of the archives, I do need to correct you here.
> With the current IP-numbers (IPv4) it's a 32-bit number, expressed as
> four 8- bit numbers (A byte is 8 bit)

Of course. Thanks for the correction. I should just have stuck with what 
I was going to write, instead of thinking about it  :-(

-- 
Rgds
Peter.          Linux Counter 5290, 1994-04-23.

Re: [gentoo-user] Linksys router BEFSR41 loosing internet

[J. Roeleveld]

On Monday 20 December 2010 13:24:11 Peter Humphrey wrote:
> On Monday 20 December 2010 12:04:27 J. Roeleveld wrote:
> > For the sake of the archives, I do need to correct you here.
> > With the current IP-numbers (IPv4) it's a 32-bit number, expressed as
> > four 8- bit numbers (A byte is 8 bit)
> 
> Of course. Thanks for the correction. I should just have stuck with what
> I was going to write, instead of thinking about it  :-(

No worries, as I said, the correction was for the sake of the archives.
You actually used the correct bit-count later on. :)

It is a bit tricky when thinking about bits and then writing it consistently 
though, think IPv6 uses 128bits per address?

--
Joost

Re: [gentoo-user] Linksys router BEFSR41 loosing internet

[Dale]

J. Roeleveld wrote:
> On Monday 20 December 2010 13:24:11 Peter Humphrey wrote:
>    
>> On Monday 20 December 2010 12:04:27 J. Roeleveld wrote:
>>      
>>> For the sake of the archives, I do need to correct you here.
>>> With the current IP-numbers (IPv4) it's a 32-bit number, expressed as
>>> four 8- bit numbers (A byte is 8 bit)
>>>        
>> Of course. Thanks for the correction. I should just have stuck with what
>> I was going to write, instead of thinking about it  :-(
>>      
> No worries, as I said, the correction was for the sake of the archives.
> You actually used the correct bit-count later on. :)
>
> It is a bit tricky when thinking about bits and then writing it consistently
> though, think IPv6 uses 128bits per address?
>
> --
> Joost
>
>    

I got confused on what had what IP too.  I checked, double checked, then 
read it again.  I hope I got what I wrote right.  o_O

Dale

:-)  :-)

[gentoo-user] Re: Linksys router BEFSR41 loosing internet

[walt]

On 12/19/2010 05:28 PM, Dale wrote:
> I want fireball to get a fixed IP from the router and I want smoker
 > to get a fixed IP from the router. I think I know how to do that much.

When I first set up my TrendNet router I worried about that, too.  After
spending many hours doing exactly what you're doing, I finally noticed
that the DHCP server running on the router always assigned each machine
the same IP address anyway, so I gave up and used the default router
settings for everything and got fixed IP addresses by default.

I believe the router assigns IP addresses based on the MAC address of
each ethernet chip. At least the router's configuration menu lets me
make adjustments based on MAC addresses, but I'm just guessing there.

If your router does the same, you can add smoker and fireball to your
/etc/hosts using the IP addresses that your router (always) assigns
them, so you can address them each by name on your local network.

I also noticed by using a port scanner on my router that it listens
on port 23 as well as port 80, so I can telnet to the router and really
look under the hood at its linux guts.  I don't think the manual gave
that secret away, IIRC.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Linksys router BEFSR41 loosing internet

[Dale]

walt wrote:
> On 12/19/2010 05:28 PM, Dale wrote:
>> I want fireball to get a fixed IP from the router and I want smoker
> > to get a fixed IP from the router. I think I know how to do that much.
>
> When I first set up my TrendNet router I worried about that, too.  After
> spending many hours doing exactly what you're doing, I finally noticed
> that the DHCP server running on the router always assigned each machine
> the same IP address anyway, so I gave up and used the default router
> settings for everything and got fixed IP addresses by default.
>
> I believe the router assigns IP addresses based on the MAC address of
> each ethernet chip. At least the router's configuration menu lets me
> make adjustments based on MAC addresses, but I'm just guessing there.
>
> If your router does the same, you can add smoker and fireball to your
> /etc/hosts using the IP addresses that your router (always) assigns
> them, so you can address them each by name on your local network.
>
> I also noticed by using a port scanner on my router that it listens
> on port 23 as well as port 80, so I can telnet to the router and really
> look under the hood at its linux guts.  I don't think the manual gave
> that secret away, IIRC.
>

I noticed the modem does the same thing too.  When I plug the router 
into the modem, it gets a different IP.  The router does the same tho I 
think.  Since I got it set up this way and it works, I better leave well 
enough alone.  ;-)

Dale

:-)  :-)