[gentoo-user] 32/64bit confusion

[gentoo-user] 32/64bit confusion

[tparker]

I have a new (first) gentoo amd64 install, multilib, and have been 
searching the docs, forums and google for information on how to handle 
emerges for 32bit programs on the 64bit install.

I have found some references to using -bin for 32bit programs (example: 
"emerge wine-bin" to get the 32bit version or "emerge wine" to get the 
64 bit version) but I haven't been able to get that to work; emerge 
wine-bin returns:  'emerge: there are no ebuilds to satisfy "wine-bin".' 
Searches didn't turn up examples or explanations to help me find what I 
am doing wrong.

I also found references to making a chroot environment to use when 
running the 32bit programs, but they all made it sound like a short step 
from a dualboot - that I would not be able to use anything in my 64bit 
environment while that was running. For example, having a 32bit program 
running in windowed mode through wine while I have 64 bit work programs 
running on the same desktop, or 32 bit firefox (for flash) with the rest 
of the system 64bit.

The information must be in the documentation somewhere, but I am failing 
at finding the correct search terms to get me information newer than 
2005-2007. Thanks for any help you can give.

[gentoo-user] Re: 32/64bit confusion

[Nikos Chantziaras]

On 08/24/2010 11:53 PM, tparker@etherstorm.net wrote:
> I have a new (first) gentoo amd64 install, multilib, and have been
> searching the docs, forums and google for information on how to handle
> emerges for 32bit programs on the 64bit install.
>
> I have found some references to using -bin for 32bit programs (example:
> "emerge wine-bin" to get the 32bit version or "emerge wine" to get the
> 64 bit version) but I haven't been able to get that to work; emerge
> wine-bin returns: 'emerge: there are no ebuilds to satisfy "wine-bin".'

There is no such package.  There are only very few -bin packages.  In 
other words, "-bin" is not a magic string you append to package names.

As for Wine, the ebuild changed recently to offer both 64bit as well as 
32bit Wine.  I think the binaries are called "wine32" and "wine64".  Two 
new USE flags have been introduced to control this: "win32" and "win64". 
  By default, both are enabled.  If you disable the "win64" USE flag, 
you'll get only the 32bit Wine.  And vice versa of course.

Re: [gentoo-user] 32/64bit confusion

[Mike Edenfield]

On 8/24/2010 4:53 PM, tparker@etherstorm.net wrote:
> I have a new (first) gentoo amd64 install, multilib, and have been
> searching the docs, forums and google for information on how to handle
> emerges for 32bit programs on the 64bit install.
> 
> I have found some references to using -bin for 32bit programs (example:
> "emerge wine-bin" to get the 32bit version or "emerge wine" to get the
> 64 bit version) but I haven't been able to get that to work; emerge
> wine-bin returns:  'emerge: there are no ebuilds to satisfy "wine-bin".'
> Searches didn't turn up examples or explanations to help me find what I
> am doing wrong.

Only a select number of packages in portage have binary editions that
are separate from the main source package.  Since you're building from
source, very few programs actually need to be 32-bit apps on a 64-bit
OS.  I count a total of 77 "*-bin" packages in the entire portage tree,
over half of which are closed-source games or Java applications.

Wine is a special case, since portage will happily build a 64-bit
version, but it's only mildly functional.  In this case, the Wine
package maintainer has set up the ebuild to build 32-bit by default,
even on an amd64 profile.  (If you specify USE=win64 you'll also get a
64-bit version of Wine but that's mostly for devs to play with.)  So you
should just be able to:

emerge wine

and let it go.

> I also found references to making a chroot environment to use when
> running the 32bit programs, but they all made it sound like a short step
> from a dualboot - that I would not be able to use anything in my 64bit
> environment while that was running. For example, having a 32bit program
> running in windowed mode through wine while I have 64 bit work programs
> running on the same desktop, or 32 bit firefox (for flash) with the rest
> of the system 64bit.

IMO setting up a 32-bit chroot should be a last resort.  An x86_64 CPU
and 64-bit OS should have no problem running 32-bit x86 binaries.  If
you need to run 32-bit applications that you cannot get built through
portage, there is a whole list of packages
(app-emulation/emul-linux-x86-*) that have prebuilt binaries for things
like GTK, QT, SDL, etc.  (The packages in portage, including Wine, will
install the ones it needs automatically.)

--Mike

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: 32/64bit confusion

[Zeerak Mustafa Waseem]

On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 12:15:41AM +0300, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> On 08/24/2010 11:53 PM, tparker@etherstorm.net wrote:
> > I have a new (first) gentoo amd64 install, multilib, and have been
> > searching the docs, forums and google for information on how to handle
> > emerges for 32bit programs on the 64bit install.
> >
> > I have found some references to using -bin for 32bit programs (example:
> > "emerge wine-bin" to get the 32bit version or "emerge wine" to get the
> > 64 bit version) but I haven't been able to get that to work; emerge
> > wine-bin returns: 'emerge: there are no ebuilds to satisfy "wine-bin".'
> 
> There is no such package.  There are only very few -bin packages.  In 
> other words, "-bin" is not a magic string you append to package names.
> 
> As for Wine, the ebuild changed recently to offer both 64bit as well as 
> 32bit Wine.  I think the binaries are called "wine32" and "wine64".  Two 
> new USE flags have been introduced to control this: "win32" and "win64". 
>   By default, both are enabled.  If you disable the "win64" USE flag, 
> you'll get only the 32bit Wine.  And vice versa of course.
> 
> 

A good idea might be to install the package app-portage/eix. It allows you to, amongst other things, to search for packages in case you're uncertain about a package name. The search will also tell you whether the package is installed, what version as well as what use-flags there are for the package.
There are a lot of other benefits to this application so read the man page.

As for 64 bit and 32 bit packages goes it really does depend on package, some only offer 32 or 64 bit, some offer both. You'll have to look into the use-flags of the packages. 

-- 
Zeerak Waseem

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: 32/64bit confusion

[tparker]

On 8/24/2010 5:15 PM, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> There is no such package. There are only very few -bin packages. In
> other words, "-bin" is not a magic string you append to package names.
>
> As for Wine, the ebuild changed recently to offer both 64bit as well as
> 32bit Wine. I think the binaries are called "wine32" and "wine64". Two
> new USE flags have been introduced to control this: "win32" and "win64".
> By default, both are enabled. If you disable the "win64" USE flag,
> you'll get only the 32bit Wine. And vice versa of course.

Thank you, that helps a great deal. Is it correct that if a program does 
have a -bin package I can emerge that and have it work as a 32 bit 
program in the 64 bit environment (and the same with wine32)?

Thank you for your patience explaining such probably simple stuff to a 
newbie. Even reading through the documents ahead of time gentoo seems to 
take a bit to wrap your brain around, but I love it so far and am 
learning a ton. :)

Re: [gentoo-user] 32/64bit confusion

[tparker]

On 8/24/2010 5:44 PM, Mike Edenfield wrote:
> Since you're building from
> source, very few programs actually need to be 32-bit apps on a 64-bit
> OS. ... In this case, the Wine
> package maintainer has set up the ebuild to build 32-bit by default,
> even on an amd64 profile.  ...
> there is a whole list of packages
> (app-emulation/emul-linux-x86-*) that have prebuilt binaries for things
> like GTK, QT, SDL, etc.  (The packages in portage, including Wine, will
> install the ones it needs automatically.)


Thank you! This makes a lot more sense now. :) I knew what I needed had 
to be there, just didn't know how to find it.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: 32/64bit confusion

[tparker]

On 8/24/2010 5:45 PM, Zeerak Mustafa Waseem wrote:
> A good idea might be to install the package app-portage/eix. It allows you to, amongst other things, to search for packages in case you're uncertain about a package name. The search will also tell you whether the package is installed, what version as well as what use-flags there are for the package.
> There are a lot of other benefits to this application so read the man page.

Extremely useful, grabbing it now, thank you!

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: 32/64bit confusion

[Mike Edenfield]

On 8/24/2010 5:46 PM, tparker@etherstorm.net wrote:
> On 8/24/2010 5:15 PM, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
>> There is no such package. There are only very few -bin
>> packages. In
>> other words, "-bin" is not a magic string you append to
>> package names.
>>
>> As for Wine, the ebuild changed recently to offer both
>> 64bit as well as
>> 32bit Wine. I think the binaries are called "wine32" and
>> "wine64". Two
>> new USE flags have been introduced to control this:
>> "win32" and "win64".
>> By default, both are enabled. If you disable the "win64"
>> USE flag,
>> you'll get only the 32bit Wine. And vice versa of course.
>
> Thank you, that helps a great deal. Is it correct that if a
> program does have a -bin package I can emerge that and have
> it work as a 32 bit program in the 64 bit environment (and
> the same with wine32)?

Generally speaking, yes -- if everything is set up properly 
with the package in portage, that will be true.  However, in 
many of those cases there's also a source package that 
builds and runs equally well on 64-bit OS's, so using the 
-bin package should be done only if there's a specific 
reason to.  Currently, for example, many people are using 
the firefox-bin or chromium-bin packages because of issues 
with Adobe Flash Player.

--Mike

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: 32/64bit confusion

[Bill Longman]

On 08/24/2010 03:17 PM, tparker@etherstorm.net wrote:
> On 8/24/2010 5:45 PM, Zeerak Mustafa Waseem wrote:
>> A good idea might be to install the package app-portage/eix. It allows
>> you to, amongst other things, to search for packages in case you're
>> uncertain about a package name. The search will also tell you whether
>> the package is installed, what version as well as what use-flags there
>> are for the package.
>> There are a lot of other benefits to this application so read the man
>> page.
> 
> Extremely useful, grabbing it now, thank you!

That's an understatement. I think, of all the portage tools out there, I
have used eix the most. Of course, revdep-rebuild comes in second, but
it's not even really close.