[gentoo-user] XServer hal useflag

[gentoo-user] XServer hal useflag

[Florian Philipp]

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Hi list!

I'm a bit confused about the meaning of the hal useflag on the
x11-base/xorg-server ebuilds nowadays. When I deactivate it, hot-plugin
a mouse does not work and special keys on the keyboard are not detected.
When I enable it, everything works but several driver packages (evdev
and mouse, probably others) want me to deactivate it.

Does this have anything to do with me still using /etc/X11/xorg.conf and
not auto configuration? Or maybe the update to Gnome-2.28? Or the
general deprecation of hal?

In short: Did I miss any update advice or do I have to fiddle around
with the settings and useflags until something usable is found, like usual?

Thanks in advance!
Florian Philipp


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[gentoo-user] Re: XServer hal useflag

[Nikos Chantziaras]

On 06/26/2010 09:24 PM, Florian Philipp wrote:
> Hi list!
>
> I'm a bit confused about the meaning of the hal useflag on the
> x11-base/xorg-server ebuilds nowadays. When I deactivate it, hot-plugin
> a mouse does not work and special keys on the keyboard are not detected.
> When I enable it, everything works but several driver packages (evdev
> and mouse, probably others) want me to deactivate it.
>
> Does this have anything to do with me still using /etc/X11/xorg.conf and
> not auto configuration? Or maybe the update to Gnome-2.28? Or the
> general deprecation of hal?
>
> In short: Did I miss any update advice or do I have to fiddle around
> with the settings and useflags until something usable is found, like usual?

Delete everything related to input devices in xorg.conf and make sure 
the "udev" USE flag is enabled for xorg-server.

Re: [gentoo-user] XServer hal useflag

[Albert Hopkins]

On Sat, 2010-06-26 at 20:24 +0200, Florian Philipp wrote:
> Hi list!
> 
> I'm a bit confused about the meaning of the hal useflag on the
> x11-base/xorg-server ebuilds nowadays. When I deactivate it, hot-plugin
> a mouse does not work and special keys on the keyboard are not detected.
> When I enable it, everything works but several driver packages (evdev
> and mouse, probably others) want me to deactivate it.
> 
> Does this have anything to do with me still using /etc/X11/xorg.conf and
> not auto configuration? Or maybe the update to Gnome-2.28? Or the
> general deprecation of hal?
> 
> In short: Did I miss any update advice or do I have to fiddle around
> with the settings and useflags until something usable is found, like usual?

Originally Xorg required you to pretty much specify all your devices and
configuration in your xorg.conf file.  Then the option came to use hal
to help with identifying, hot-plugging, and auto-configuring devices.
Well in general hal has fallen out of favor for reasons beyond the scope
of this discussion.  So many softwares that used hal before are or have
migrated to something else, such as udev.  Xorg has also chosen to do
this, and so the newer Xorg servers can use udev instead of hal.  There
is a udev flag for xorg-server.  You can/should use this instead of hal.
Using neither hal nor udev gives you the "legacy" mode where everything
is (must be) configured via configuration file.

-a

Re: [gentoo-user] XServer hal useflag

[Stefan G. Weichinger]

Am 26.06.2010 20:32, schrieb Albert Hopkins:

> Originally Xorg required you to pretty much specify all your devices and
> configuration in your xorg.conf file.  Then the option came to use hal
> to help with identifying, hot-plugging, and auto-configuring devices.
> Well in general hal has fallen out of favor for reasons beyond the scope
> of this discussion.  So many softwares that used hal before are or have
> migrated to something else, such as udev.  Xorg has also chosen to do
> this, and so the newer Xorg servers can use udev instead of hal.  There
> is a udev flag for xorg-server.  You can/should use this instead of hal.
> Using neither hal nor udev gives you the "legacy" mode where everything
> is (must be) configured via configuration file.

Is it time already to set "-hal" in make.conf and get rid of hal?

I run xorg-server without hal for quite a while now, but there are other
packages as well using that flag.

Hints?

I could simply try, yes ;-)

S

[gentoo-user] Re: XServer hal useflag

[Nikos Chantziaras]

On 06/26/2010 09:54 PM, Stefan G. Weichinger wrote:
> Am 26.06.2010 20:32, schrieb Albert Hopkins:
>
>> Originally Xorg required you to pretty much specify all your devices and
>> configuration in your xorg.conf file.  Then the option came to use hal
>> to help with identifying, hot-plugging, and auto-configuring devices.
>> Well in general hal has fallen out of favor for reasons beyond the scope
>> of this discussion.  So many softwares that used hal before are or have
>> migrated to something else, such as udev.  Xorg has also chosen to do
>> this, and so the newer Xorg servers can use udev instead of hal.  There
>> is a udev flag for xorg-server.  You can/should use this instead of hal.
>> Using neither hal nor udev gives you the "legacy" mode where everything
>> is (must be) configured via configuration file.
>
> Is it time already to set "-hal" in make.conf and get rid of hal?
>
> I run xorg-server without hal for quite a while now, but there are other
> packages as well using that flag.
>
> Hints?
>
> I could simply try, yes ;-)

Depends on the individual packages.  xorg-server can do without hal. 
For other packages you need to look at their docs and see why they need hal.

Re: [gentoo-user] XServer hal useflag

[waltdnes]

On Sat, Jun 26, 2010 at 08:54:07PM +0200, Stefan G. Weichinger wrote

> Is it time already to set "-hal" in make.conf and get rid of hal?

  Even better, put it in /etc/portage/package.mask.  Here's mine...

sys-apps/dbus
sys-apps/hal
sys-libs/pam

> I could simply try, yes ;-)

  Try it, you'll like it.

-- 
Walter Dnes <waltdnes@waltdnes.org>

Re: [gentoo-user] XServer hal useflag

[Albert Hopkins]

On Sat, 2010-06-26 at 20:54 +0200, Stefan G. Weichinger wrote:
> Is it time already to set "-hal" in make.conf and get rid of hal?

I have some packages that still need hal.. or at least to use them the
way I use them they still need hal.  I don't have hal as a global use
flag, but have it for individual packages in /etc/portage/package.use.
This is entirely user preference (I can't tell you if you need hal or
not).

-a

Re: [gentoo-user] XServer hal useflag

[Stefan G. Weichinger]

Am 26.06.2010 22:38, schrieb waltdnes@waltdnes.org:

>   Even better, put it in /etc/portage/package.mask.  Here's mine...
> 
> sys-apps/dbus
> sys-apps/hal
> sys-libs/pam
> 
>> I could simply try, yes ;-)
> 
>   Try it, you'll like it.

Why? ;-)

I am not as bold to do what you suggested.
Added "-hal" to my make.conf ... and recompiled stuff on two boxes.
Looks OK so far ... this leads to removing hald, yes.

Removing dbus looks a bit scarier to me, more packages USE it.

I will see ... ;-)
Thanks, Stefan

Re: [gentoo-user] XServer hal useflag

[Stefan G. Weichinger]

Am 26.06.2010 22:56, schrieb Albert Hopkins:
> On Sat, 2010-06-26 at 20:54 +0200, Stefan G. Weichinger wrote:
>> Is it time already to set "-hal" in make.conf and get rid of hal?
> 
> I have some packages that still need hal.. or at least to use them the
> way I use them they still need hal.  I don't have hal as a global use
> flag, but have it for individual packages in /etc/portage/package.use.
> This is entirely user preference (I can't tell you if you need hal or
> not).

Sure ...

I have to add that I am using GNOME here which might lead to some
thoughts about hotplugging stuff like usb-sticks etc.

What else?

# equery h hal
 * Searching for USE flag hal ...
[IP-] [  ] app-emulation/wine-1.1.42:0
[IP-] [  ] gnome-base/gnome-applets-2.30.0:2
[IP-] [  ] gnome-base/gnome-vfs-2.24.3-r1:2
[IP-] [  ] gnome-base/gvfs-1.6.2:0
[IP-] [  ] media-sound/pulseaudio-0.9.21.2-r1:0
[IP-] [  ] media-sound/qmmp-0.4.1:0
[IP-] [  ] sys-fs/ntfs3g-2010.5.16:0
[IP-] [  ] x11-base/xorg-server-1.8.1.901:0

pulseaudio, works ok so far.
qmmp, OK.
xorg-server, yep, for quite a while.

Can't really say much about the gnome-stuff and wine ...

For now hald is OFF here and packages recompiled with "-hal".

Stefan

Re: [gentoo-user] XServer hal useflag

[Florian Philipp]

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Am 26.06.2010 20:32, schrieb Albert Hopkins:
> On Sat, 2010-06-26 at 20:24 +0200, Florian Philipp wrote:
[..]
>> I'm a bit confused about the meaning of the hal useflag on the
>> x11-base/xorg-server ebuilds nowadays. When I deactivate it, hot-plugin
>> a mouse does not work and special keys on the keyboard are not detected.
>> When I enable it, everything works but several driver packages (evdev
>> and mouse, probably others) want me to deactivate it.
>>
[...]
> So many softwares that used hal before are or have
> migrated to something else, such as udev.  Xorg has also chosen to do
> this, and so the newer Xorg servers can use udev instead of hal.  There
> is a udev flag for xorg-server.  You can/should use this instead of hal.
[...]

Thanks for the update! Unfortunately, the first X-Server version with a
udev useflag hasn't been stabilized on AMD64, yet. I keyworded it and it
worked ... somewhat. I now have other problems but since these are
unrelated to hal vs. udev, I open another thread for it.

Thanks,
Florian Philipp


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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: XServer hal useflag

[Philip Webb]

100626 Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> On 06/26/2010 09:24 PM, Florian Philipp wrote:
>> I'm a bit confused about the meaning of the hal useflag
>> on the x11-base/xorg-server ebuilds nowadays.
> Delete everything related to input devices in xorg.conf
> and make sure the "udev" USE flag is enabled for xorg-server.

I bravely jumped off the cliff, removed 'hal' from 'make.conf'
& recompiled Exo Thunar Xorg-server, the only pkgs which used it.
Thunar opens ok, but I needed to emerge the testing version of Xorg-server,
which has  6  deps +  4  drivers to update too.
Everything works even with the refs to mouse + keyboard in 'xorg.conf';
after removing all refs there (incl the  2  AD INIT), it still works ok.

Now for 'libpng' ...

-- 
========================,,============================================
SUPPORT     ___________//___,   Philip Webb
ELECTRIC   /] [] [] [] [] []|   Cities Centre, University of Toronto
TRANSIT    `-O----------O---'   purslowatchassdotutorontodotca

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: XServer hal useflag

[DK Smith]

Hello Philip,

May I ask you to throw me a couple of "bones" :)

I am catching up on gentoo threads (after getting laid off and now  
have time to remove hal. lol!). I've already removed hal from  
make.conf and then made package.use entries based on an `equery  
depends hal`.


On Jul 3, 2010, at 2:26 PM, Philip Webb wrote:
>
> I bravely jumped off the cliff, removed 'hal' from 'make.conf'

Did the landing continue to be smooth and without additional  
consequence?
lol :)


> & recompiled Exo Thunar Xorg-server, the only pkgs which used it.
> Thunar opens ok, but I needed to emerge the testing version of Xorg- 
> server,
> which has  6  deps +  4  drivers to update too.
> Everything works even with the refs to mouse + keyboard in  
> 'xorg.conf';
> after removing all refs there (incl the  2  AD INIT), it still works  
> ok.
>
> Now for 'libpng' ...
>



I would be grateful to get a copy of your xorg.conf. It would be very  
useful leg-up, I think. :)

Also, what is the testing version of xorg server? Is that a different  
gentoo package or perhaps manifested with a different architecture  
accept keyword such as stable vs unstable (amd64 vs ~amd64). Thank you.

Cheers,
DK

PS: I will pay it forward by attempting to clarify these topics to  
others, on forums and lists.


-- 
DK Smith
415-282-3571
dks@MediaWeb.com