[gentoo-user] help

[gentoo-user] help

[Dainius Matusevičius]

[gentoo-user] Re: help

[Nikos Chantziaras]

On 03/20/2010 06:03 PM, Dainius Matusevičius wrote:
> help

Is this the mailing-list equivalent of a message in a bottle?  :P

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: help

[Alan McKinnon]

On Saturday 20 March 2010 18:58:49 Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> On 03/20/2010 06:03 PM, Dainius Matusevičius wrote:
> > help
> 
> Is this the mailing-list equivalent of a message in a bottle?  :P

I thought it was obvious. His keyboard is broken and he needs help fixing it.

-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: help

[Crístian Viana]

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or maybe he's using Seamonkey, like Dale :-) :-).

On Sat, Mar 20, 2010 at 2:02 PM, Alan McKinnon <alan.mckinnon@gmail.com>wrote:

> On Saturday 20 March 2010 18:58:49 Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> > On 03/20/2010 06:03 PM, Dainius Matusevičius wrote:
> > > help
> >
> > Is this the mailing-list equivalent of a message in a bottle?  :P
>
> I thought it was obvious. His keyboard is broken and he needs help fixing
> it.
>
> --
> alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
>
>


-- 
Crístian Deives dos Santos Viana [aka CD1]

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: help

[Dale]

Crístian Viana wrote:
> or maybe he's using Seamonkey, like Dale :-) :-).
>
> -- 
> Crístian Deives dos Santos Viana [aka CD1]

That's what I was thinking too.  Poor thang.  lol

He may have been trying to get the help thing from the list server.  
That is another possibility I guess.

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: help

[Florian Philipp]

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Am 20.03.2010 18:55, schrieb Crístian Viana:
> or maybe he's using Seamonkey, like Dale :-) :-).
> 

Nah, this time it's KMail on KDE-4.1.4.

Given that this version is not even in the tree anymore, I guess,
whatever his problem is, 'emerge --sync && emerge -avuD world' is a good
start.

;-)


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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: help

[Michael Sullivan]

On Sat, 2010-03-20 at 14:55 -0300, Crístian Viana wrote:
> or maybe he's using Seamonkey, like Dale :-) :-).
> 

Hey!  What's wrong with seamonkey?

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: help

[Dale]

Michael Sullivan wrote:
> On Sat, 2010-03-20 at 14:55 -0300, Crístian Viana wrote:
>    
>> or maybe he's using Seamonkey, like Dale :-) :-).
>>
>>      
> Hey!  What's wrong with seamonkey?
>
>    

I upgraded from Seamonkey 1 to Seamonkey 2.  I let it copy the settings, 
email and other "stuff" to the new profile.  Well, it copied it fine but 
new messages were sent blank.  Replies were fine but new messages were 
blank.

So, I had to create a new profile, copy the good stuff over to fix the 
issue with Seamonkey.  Now I can send a new message and it not be 
blank.  I think it annoyed the list but it really got on my nerves.  
After all, who wants to spend 20 or 30 minutes typing in a message to 
have it disappear and have to do it all over again.

I like the reply about white letters on a white background.  Of course, 
if that was the case, you could just click the mouse in the body and do 
a ctrl a to highlight the text.  Then you could see it.  lol

Dale

:-)  :-)

[gentoo-user] Re: help

[Nikos Chantziaras]

On 03/20/2010 10:46 PM, Dale wrote:
> Michael Sullivan wrote:
>> On Sat, 2010-03-20 at 14:55 -0300, Crístian Viana wrote:
>>> or maybe he's using Seamonkey, like Dale :-) :-).
>>>
>> Hey! What's wrong with seamonkey?
>>
>
> I upgraded from Seamonkey 1 to Seamonkey 2. I let it copy the settings,
> email and other "stuff" to the new profile. Well, it copied it fine but
> new messages were sent blank. Replies were fine but new messages were
> blank.
>
> So, I had to create a new profile, copy the good stuff over to fix the
> issue with Seamonkey. Now I can send a new message and it not be blank.
> I think it annoyed the list but it really got on my nerves. After all,
> who wants to spend 20 or 30 minutes typing in a message to have it
> disappear and have to do it all over again.

And people still claim it's Microsoft products that are bugged... :P

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: help

[Dale]

Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> On 03/20/2010 10:46 PM, Dale wrote:
>> Michael Sullivan wrote:
>>> On Sat, 2010-03-20 at 14:55 -0300, Crístian Viana wrote:
>>>> or maybe he's using Seamonkey, like Dale :-) :-).
>>>>
>>> Hey! What's wrong with seamonkey?
>>>
>>
>> I upgraded from Seamonkey 1 to Seamonkey 2. I let it copy the settings,
>> email and other "stuff" to the new profile. Well, it copied it fine but
>> new messages were sent blank. Replies were fine but new messages were
>> blank.
>>
>> So, I had to create a new profile, copy the good stuff over to fix the
>> issue with Seamonkey. Now I can send a new message and it not be blank.
>> I think it annoyed the list but it really got on my nerves. After all,
>> who wants to spend 20 or 30 minutes typing in a message to have it
>> disappear and have to do it all over again.
>
> And people still claim it's Microsoft products that are bugged... :P
>

It is, its just worse.  :-P

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: help

[Stroller]

On 20 Mar 2010, at 21:28, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
>> ...
>> So, I had to create a new profile, copy the good stuff over to fix  
>> the
>> issue with Seamonkey. Now I can send a new message and it not be  
>> blank.
>> I think it annoyed the list but it really got on my nerves. After  
>> all,
>> who wants to spend 20 or 30 minutes typing in a message to have it
>> disappear and have to do it all over again.
>
> And people still claim it's Microsoft products that are bugged... :P

Chances are that he's copied a setting from his old profile that  
doesn't work with the new one, or is corrupt in some way. He can  
EASILY test this by moving his profile to profile.old and trying with  
a blank / new configuration. If that works then he can copy over only  
the essential parts of his profile and at least save himself all the  
bother of retyping out the names of his pop3 servers and signatures.

I was very impressed by Windows 7 recently. I installed it for a  
customer and it seems wonderful. I even considered trying it myself,  
but I realised that the inability to copy settings from one profile or  
machine to another is a *complete* deal-breaker to me.

I reinstall the o/s on my desktop machine at 1 - 3 year intervals.  
That might be caused by a hardware upgrade or failure, filesystem  
corruption, or they might just release Windows 8 in 2012. I try not to  
depend too much on stuff that's on my desktop - email is a killer app  
for me, so I just type in the details of my IMAP server and my  
familiar environment is replicated; I have just a few favourite  
websites that I use a lot, and one can just install a word-processor  
and photo-editor, there should be a backup of my data on the server.

When I set up a new Mac on Linux box, all my preferences from ~ can be  
copied over easily. They're just a bunch of text files, and I can have  
a bit of a clean up by only copying the preferences for programs I  
actually use. If I fire up $application and find that its layout is  
all wrong, then I can just exit it and copy across preferences from  
the old system,

Contemplating this, I find it a bit incredible that there's no way to  
do this on a Windows system. Everything is stored in honking great big  
registry files, and there's no way to migrate a registry hive to a new  
profile (and no way, without a Windows domain server, to migrate a  
profile to a new system). When I was a Windows enthusiast, before I'd  
heard of Linux, I would spend 2 days fuzting to try and get everything  
right when reinstalled Windows or installed a new system. Even a week  
or two later I'd be finding things that weren't quite right, like they  
were on my old system, didn't quite match my preferred way of doing  
things, and I would have to spend time tinkering to get them right.

A Red Hat developer recently (within the last 3 months, I guess)  
blogged about reverse engineering the Windows registry for some VM  
tools he wrote. I can't find the article right now, but what he had to  
say about the Registry was shocking.

Stroller.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: help

[Paul Hartman]

On Sat, Mar 20, 2010 at 7:46 PM, Stroller
<stroller@stellar.eclipse.co.uk> wrote:
>
> I was very impressed by Windows 7 recently. I installed it for a customer
> and it seems wonderful. I even considered trying it myself, but I realised
> that the inability to copy settings from one profile or machine to another
> is a *complete* deal-breaker to me.

[OT]

In Windows XP it was called "Files and Settings Transfer Wizard". It
could be run from the Windows install CD or maybe it was installed as
well. You ran it on the source machine, then on the target machine and
it did its magic. It even carried over individual apps settings for
supported products (microsoft, adobe, etc). Did they get rid of that
tool in later versions of Windows?

[gentoo-user] Re: help

[Nikos Chantziaras]

On 03/22/2010 06:54 PM, Paul Hartman wrote:
> On Sat, Mar 20, 2010 at 7:46 PM, Stroller
> <stroller@stellar.eclipse.co.uk>  wrote:
>>
>> I was very impressed by Windows 7 recently. I installed it for a customer
>> and it seems wonderful. I even considered trying it myself, but I realised
>> that the inability to copy settings from one profile or machine to another
>> is a *complete* deal-breaker to me.
>
> [OT]
>
> In Windows XP it was called "Files and Settings Transfer Wizard". It
> could be run from the Windows install CD or maybe it was installed as
> well. You ran it on the source machine, then on the target machine and
> it did its magic. It even carried over individual apps settings for
> supported products (microsoft, adobe, etc). Did they get rid of that
> tool in later versions of Windows?

No, it's still there (and improved).  No idea why Stroller couldn't find it.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: help

[Mick]

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On Monday 22 March 2010 17:05:12 Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> On 03/22/2010 06:54 PM, Paul Hartman wrote:
> > On Sat, Mar 20, 2010 at 7:46 PM, Stroller
> >
> > <stroller@stellar.eclipse.co.uk>  wrote:
> >> I was very impressed by Windows 7 recently. I installed it for a
> >> customer and it seems wonderful. I even considered trying it myself, but
> >> I realised that the inability to copy settings from one profile or
> >> machine to another is a *complete* deal-breaker to me.
> >
> > [OT]
> >
> > In Windows XP it was called "Files and Settings Transfer Wizard". It
> > could be run from the Windows install CD or maybe it was installed as
> > well. You ran it on the source machine, then on the target machine and
> > it did its magic. It even carried over individual apps settings for
> > supported products (microsoft, adobe, etc). Did they get rid of that
> > tool in later versions of Windows?
> 
> No, it's still there (and improved).  No idea why Stroller couldn't find
>  it.

Hmm ... I have W7 on my new laptop.  I booted it 3 times in as many months.  
One of these times was to update the BIOS.  All I can say its that I found it 
enormously irritating because many things are not where I would expect to 
find them (like defrag).  There is however a search function - which is only 
good if you already know the name of the executable.

TBH, I wouldn't pay money for it but as many OEM impose a MSWindows tax on 
all of us I had no other option if I wanted to buy this particular laptop.
-- 
Regards,
Mick

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: help

[KH]

Am 22.03.2010 20:17, schrieb Mick:

>
> TBH, I wouldn't pay money for it but as many OEM impose a MSWindows tax on
> all of us I had no other option if I wanted to buy this particular laptop.

You can refuse the license agreement and give windows back. If you are 
lucky, the vendor will give you some money back.

kh

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: help

[Mick]

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On Monday 22 March 2010 19:21:26 KH wrote:
> Am 22.03.2010 20:17, schrieb Mick:
> > TBH, I wouldn't pay money for it but as many OEM impose a MSWindows tax
> > on all of us I had no other option if I wanted to buy this particular
> > laptop.
> 
> You can refuse the license agreement and give windows back. If you are
> lucky, the vendor will give you some money back.

Getting money back from Dell?!!  It'll be like squeezing blood out of a 
stone.  ;-)

Seriously though, I've asked them to take it off for me and they said that 
this is "not an option"!
-- 
Regards,
Mick

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: help

[Mike Edenfield]

On 3/22/2010 3:40 PM, Mick wrote:
> On Monday 22 March 2010 19:21:26 KH wrote:
>> Am 22.03.2010 20:17, schrieb Mick:
>>> TBH, I wouldn't pay money for it but as many OEM impose a MSWindows tax
>>> on all of us I had no other option if I wanted to buy this particular
>>> laptop.
>>
>> You can refuse the license agreement and give windows back. If you are
>> lucky, the vendor will give you some money back.
> 
> Getting money back from Dell?!!  It'll be like squeezing blood out of a 
> stone.  ;-)
> 
> Seriously though, I've asked them to take it off for me and they said that 
> this is "not an option"!

Particularly annoying is the fact that Dell claims to be "Linux
friendly".  Which is apparently shorthand for:

"Sure, we'll happily sell you one of three crappy laptop models with
Ubuntu pre-installed, at a slight discount, while bombarding you with
'Dell Recommends Windows' ads while you shop.  What's that?  You want a
desktop machine with Linux?  Are you insane?"

[gentoo-user] Re: help

[Nikos Chantziaras]

On 03/22/2010 10:33 PM, Mike Edenfield wrote:
> On 3/22/2010 3:40 PM, Mick wrote:
>> On Monday 22 March 2010 19:21:26 KH wrote:
>>> Am 22.03.2010 20:17, schrieb Mick:
>>>> TBH, I wouldn't pay money for it but as many OEM impose a MSWindows tax
>>>> on all of us I had no other option if I wanted to buy this particular
>>>> laptop.
>>>
>>> You can refuse the license agreement and give windows back. If you are
>>> lucky, the vendor will give you some money back.
>>
>> Getting money back from Dell?!!  It'll be like squeezing blood out of a
>> stone.  ;-)
>>
>> Seriously though, I've asked them to take it off for me and they said that
>> this is "not an option"!
>
> Particularly annoying is the fact that Dell claims to be "Linux
> friendly".  Which is apparently shorthand for:
>
> "Sure, we'll happily sell you one of three crappy laptop models with
> Ubuntu pre-installed, at a slight discount, while bombarding you with
> 'Dell Recommends Windows' ads while you shop.  What's that?  You want a
> desktop machine with Linux?  Are you insane?"

Dell mainly sells "Windows Computers", not "Computers".  If someone 
doesn't like that, why buy one?  There's a gazillion of e-shops selling 
custom machines.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: help

[Neil Walker]

On 22/03/10 20:33, Mike Edenfield wrote:

> "Sure, we'll happily sell you one of three crappy laptop models with
> Ubuntu pre-installed, at a slight discount, while bombarding you with
> 'Dell Recommends Windows' ads while you shop.  What's that?  You want a
> desktop machine with Linux?  Are you insane?"
>   

The real insanity is buying over-priced crap from Dell. ;)


Be lucky,

Neil
http://www.neiljw.com/


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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: help

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Mon, 22 Mar 2010 20:55:34 +0000, Neil Walker wrote:

> The real insanity is buying over-priced crap from Dell. ;)

The Dell Mini 10 I bought was very reasonably priced.

So that deals with the over-priced issue...


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Standard: (n., adj.) a design target which manufacturers may embellish,
improve upon, or ignore as they wish, so long as it can be used profitably
in their advertising.

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: help

[Alan McKinnon]

On Tuesday 23 March 2010 00:00:38 Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Mon, 22 Mar 2010 20:55:34 +0000, Neil Walker wrote:
> > The real insanity is buying over-priced crap from Dell. ;)
> 
> The Dell Mini 10 I bought was very reasonably priced.
> 
> So that deals with the over-priced issue...

The Dell XPS M1530 I'm typing this on was *very* reasonably priced. But, the 
40% corporate discount whacked off the top was a part of that :-)



-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: help

[Mick]

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On Monday 22 March 2010 22:00:38 Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Mon, 22 Mar 2010 20:55:34 +0000, Neil Walker wrote:
> > The real insanity is buying over-priced crap from Dell. ;)
> 
> The Dell Mini 10 I bought was very reasonably priced.
> 
> So that deals with the over-priced issue...

I did some research to find a powerful laptop before I settled on Dell and 
they were selling the best machine at the time for the price.  Lenovos, HP, 
Asus, etc. were definitely pricier.  So, comparatively speaking Dell's are 
not bad.  However, they are indeed overpriced because we're paying for a pre-
installed OS some of us do not want/need.
-- 
Regards,
Mick

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: help

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Mon, 22 Mar 2010 22:56:33 +0000, Mick wrote:

> On Monday 22 March 2010 22:00:38 Neil Bothwick wrote:
> > On Mon, 22 Mar 2010 20:55:34 +0000, Neil Walker wrote:  
> > > The real insanity is buying over-priced crap from Dell. ;)  
> > 
> > The Dell Mini 10 I bought was very reasonably priced.
> > 
> > So that deals with the over-priced issue...  
> 
> I did some research to find a powerful laptop before I settled on Dell
> and they were selling the best machine at the time for the price.
> Lenovos, HP, Asus, etc. were definitely pricier.

Note to self: Be less subtle in future :(


-- 
Neil Bothwick

If Bill Gates had a dime for every time a Windows box crashed...
 ...Oh, wait a minute, he already does.

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: help

[Dale]

Neil Bothwick wrote:
> -- 
> Neil Bothwick
>
> If Bill Gates had a dime for every time a Windows box crashed...
>   ...Oh, wait a minute, he already does.
>    

You sig was sort of ironic considering the subject discussed.  That 
thing have ESP or something?

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: help

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Mon, 22 Mar 2010 18:47:57 -0500, Dale wrote:

> > If Bill Gates had a dime for every time a Windows box crashed...
> >   ...Oh, wait a minute, he already does.
> >      
> 
> You sig was sort of ironic considering the subject discussed.  That 
> thing have ESP or something?

It does seem like it at times, but you only notice the small proportion
of times the tag is vaguely relevant... either that or my computer is
haunted :)


-- 
Neil Bothwick

A chicken is an egg's way of producing more eggs.

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: help

[Neil Walker]

On 22/03/10 19:21, KH wrote:
> Am 22.03.2010 20:17, schrieb Mick:
>
>>
>> TBH, I wouldn't pay money for it but as many OEM impose a MSWindows
>> tax on
>> all of us I had no other option if I wanted to buy this particular
>> laptop.
>
> You can refuse the license agreement and give windows back. If you are
> lucky, the vendor will give you some money back.
>
> kh
>
>

Actually, you don't need any luck. It's been a few years now
since Microsoft were ordered by the courts to give refunds. The
vendor doesn't even come into the picture. Return Windows
unopened to Microsoft and they HAVE to refund you.


Be lucky,


Neil
http://www.neiljw.com/




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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: help

[Alan McKinnon]

On Monday 22 March 2010 21:21:26 KH wrote:
> Am 22.03.2010 20:17, schrieb Mick:
> > TBH, I wouldn't pay money for it but as many OEM impose a MSWindows tax
> > on all of us I had no other option if I wanted to buy this particular
> > laptop.
> 
> You can refuse the license agreement and give windows back. If you are
> lucky, the vendor will give you some money back.
> 
> kh


Yeah right, good luck with that.

Three people in my entire country are known to have gotten that right, 2 from 
Toshiba. In all three cases, the hardware vendor refunded the cost as a PR 
exercise.

Microsoft are dead sneaky about this one, at least under ZA law. The hardware 
vendor accepted the license to install it (remember it's on OEM install not a 
box set), and you buy the hardware knowing full well that it comes with 
Windows. That's part of the deal and there is no deal on the table where the 
machine does not have Windows.

There is nothing unfair about this. No vendor has a *duty* so sell you what 
you want and they cannot be forced to. Microsoft does not enforce that vendors 
sell Windows-only machines (and they proved as such to the relevant 
Commission). Vendors almost uniformly virtually every model with Windows, the 
exceptions are low grade machines the no sane person would buy today, and 
servers). This is not even anti-competitive, the vendor can sell what they 
like and can offer only a certain OS of they choose. Much like a Toyota dealer 
is perfectly free to sell only Toyotas and cannot be forced to offer Hondas as 
well.


-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: help

[Zeerak Mustafa Waseem]

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On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 11:36:59PM +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:
> On Monday 22 March 2010 21:21:26 KH wrote:
> > Am 22.03.2010 20:17, schrieb Mick:
> > > TBH, I wouldn't pay money for it but as many OEM impose a MSWindows tax
> > > on all of us I had no other option if I wanted to buy this particular
> > > laptop.
> > 
> > You can refuse the license agreement and give windows back. If you are
> > lucky, the vendor will give you some money back.
> > 
> > kh
> 
> 
> Yeah right, good luck with that.
> 
> Three people in my entire country are known to have gotten that right, 2 from 
> Toshiba. In all three cases, the hardware vendor refunded the cost as a PR 
> exercise.
> 
> Microsoft are dead sneaky about this one, at least under ZA law. The hardware 
> vendor accepted the license to install it (remember it's on OEM install not a 
> box set), and you buy the hardware knowing full well that it comes with 
> Windows. That's part of the deal and there is no deal on the table where the 
> machine does not have Windows.
> 
> There is nothing unfair about this. No vendor has a *duty* so sell you what 
> you want and they cannot be forced to. Microsoft does not enforce that vendors 
> sell Windows-only machines (and they proved as such to the relevant 
> Commission). Vendors almost uniformly virtually every model with Windows, the 
> exceptions are low grade machines the no sane person would buy today, and 
> servers). This is not even anti-competitive, the vendor can sell what they 
> like and can offer only a certain OS of they choose. Much like a Toyota dealer 
> is perfectly free to sell only Toyotas and cannot be forced to offer Hondas as 
> well.
> 
> 
> -- 
> alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
> 

Well you I'll have to agree with you that it's not unfiar or anything else as such.
I do however think that it would be benefitial to the consumer if the market was more open than it's current state.
That being said we do have the option to buy costumized computers without the MS tax.

-- 
Zeerak Waseem

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: help

[Alan McKinnon]

On Tuesday 23 March 2010 00:02:54 Zeerak Mustafa Waseem wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 11:36:59PM +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:
> > On Monday 22 March 2010 21:21:26 KH wrote:
> > > Am 22.03.2010 20:17, schrieb Mick:
> > > > TBH, I wouldn't pay money for it but as many OEM impose a MSWindows
> > > > tax on all of us I had no other option if I wanted to buy this
> > > > particular laptop.
> > > 
> > > You can refuse the license agreement and give windows back. If you are
> > > lucky, the vendor will give you some money back.
> > > 
> > > kh
> > 
> > Yeah right, good luck with that.
> > 
> > Three people in my entire country are known to have gotten that right, 2
> > from Toshiba. In all three cases, the hardware vendor refunded the cost
> > as a PR exercise.
> > 
> > Microsoft are dead sneaky about this one, at least under ZA law. The
> > hardware vendor accepted the license to install it (remember it's on OEM
> > install not a box set), and you buy the hardware knowing full well that
> > it comes with Windows. That's part of the deal and there is no deal on
> > the table where the machine does not have Windows.
> > 
> > There is nothing unfair about this. No vendor has a *duty* so sell you
> > what you want and they cannot be forced to. Microsoft does not enforce
> > that vendors sell Windows-only machines (and they proved as such to the
> > relevant Commission). Vendors almost uniformly virtually every model
> > with Windows, the exceptions are low grade machines the no sane person
> > would buy today, and servers). This is not even anti-competitive, the
> > vendor can sell what they like and can offer only a certain OS of they
> > choose. Much like a Toyota dealer is perfectly free to sell only Toyotas
> > and cannot be forced to offer Hondas as well.
> 
> Well you I'll have to agree with you that it's not unfiar or anything else
> as such. I do however think that it would be benefitial to the consumer if
> the market was more open than it's current state. That being said we do
> have the option to buy costumized computers without the MS tax.

It's not all dark in this tunnel. There is light at the end, and no, it's not 
the train's headlights ;-)

Customer demand is still the best way to get providers to change their 
offerings. We who want OS-less machines, or machines with Linux, might be few 
today, but that doesn't have to be true for tomorrow.


-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: help

[Stroller]

On 22 Mar 2010, at 22:09, Alan McKinnon wrote:
>>> ....
>>> There is nothing unfair about this. No vendor has a *duty* so sell  
>>> you
>>> what you want and they cannot be forced to. Microsoft does not  
>>> enforce
>>> that vendors sell Windows-only machines (and they proved as such  
>>> to the
>>> relevant Commission). ...
>>
>> Well you I'll have to agree with you that it's not unfiar or  
>> anything else
>> as such. I do however think that it would be benefitial to the  
>> consumer if
>> the market was more open than it's current state. That being said  
>> we do
>> have the option to buy costumized computers without the MS tax.
>
> It's not all dark in this tunnel. There is light at the end, and no,  
> it's not
> the train's headlights ;-)
>
> Customer demand is still the best way to get providers to change their
> offerings. We who want OS-less machines, or machines with Linux,  
> might be few
> today, but that doesn't have to be true for tomorrow.

The problem is that manufacturers subsidise the cost of the PC by  
preinstalling junk on them.

They install Norton or McAfee anti-virus with a "free" 3 month  
subscription, because Norton or McAfee give them a kickback. I would  
imagine this is in the region of $10 - $20. They install desktop  
shortcuts to eBay, to Big Fish Games (or whatever it's called) set the  
browser's homepage and the default search shows more ads than useful  
results. They probably get a penny a click on those, but over the  
lifetime of a computer, this can add up.

In all I wouldn't be surprised if the crapware on a new PC pays more  
than the Windows license costs the manufacturer. Selling PCs with a  
blank hard-drive would cost them money, therefore! The cost of porting  
browser toolbars and "search redirect" hijackers to enable them to  
sell Linux-based PCs is just not worth the effort, and a Linux user is  
more likely to uninstall them, anyway.

Manufacturers accept that some of the PCs they sell will have Windows  
wiped and Linux installed, but they don't have to like or encourage  
it. :(

I very much dislike Microsoft's abuse of its monopoly position, but I  
don't have any easy answers right now.

Stroller.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: help

[Stroller]

On 22 Mar 2010, at 19:21, KH wrote:
> Am 22.03.2010 20:17, schrieb Mick:
>
>> TBH, I wouldn't pay money for it but as many OEM impose a MSWindows  
>> tax on
>> all of us I had no other option if I wanted to buy this particular  
>> laptop.
>
> You can refuse the license agreement and give windows back. If you  
> are lucky, the vendor will give you some money back.

Article in The Register about this this week. Dell may be refusing  
this now.

I read in a forum that the wording of the license terms has changed in  
Vista or 7, to (basically) "return the whole system for a refund if  
you don't like these terms".

Stroller.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: help

[KH]

Am 22.03.2010 23:01, schrieb Stroller:
>
> On 22 Mar 2010, at 19:21, KH wrote:
>> Am 22.03.2010 20:17, schrieb Mick:
>>
>>> TBH, I wouldn't pay money for it but as many OEM impose a MSWindows
>>> tax on
>>> all of us I had no other option if I wanted to buy this particular
>>> laptop.
>>
>> You can refuse the license agreement and give windows back. If you are
>> lucky, the vendor will give you some money back.
>
> Article in The Register about this this week. Dell may be refusing this
> now.
>
> I read in a forum that the wording of the license terms has changed in
> Vista or 7, to (basically) "return the whole system for a refund if you
> don't like these terms".
>
> Stroller.
>
>

In Germany you are still free to sell the software to a third person who 
is insane enough to buy Windows ;-)

kh

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: help

[Stroller]

On 22 Mar 2010, at 22:04, KH wrote:

> Am 22.03.2010 23:01, schrieb Stroller:
>>
>> On 22 Mar 2010, at 19:21, KH wrote:
>>> Am 22.03.2010 20:17, schrieb Mick:
>>>
>>>> TBH, I wouldn't pay money for it but as many OEM impose a  
>>>> MSWindows tax on all of us I had no other option if I wanted to  
>>>> buy this particular laptop.
>>> ...
>
> In Germany you are still free to sell the software to a third person  
> who is insane enough to buy Windows ;-)

I believe the precedent set by that court decision applies throughout  
Europe, however I don't think anyone else has followed it up.

There was a guy on uk.adverts.computer (might be uk.adverts.computers,  
I'm not sure) who used to make a good business buying end of life  
corporate PCs and breaking them, mostly for the licenses. Great bloke,  
everyone loved him, always had great deals or could do you one.

One day he got a threatening letter from Microsoft about reselling  
these license stickers, which he was doing absolutely legitimately  
under EU law, and had to close down his business as a consequence. He  
contacted a commercial solicitors and they were happy to take the  
case, confident in the outcome precedented by the German decision, but  
wanted a deposit of £20,000 ($30,000 US now, but I think more like  
$40k at the time).

This was money he simply didn't have, or that he wasn't prepared to  
risk. I would imagine the actual costs of pursuing the case could run  
much higher, perhaps to in excess of £100,000. It's obvious that  
Microsoft would quite happily run you bankrupt with pre-trial requests  
to your lawyers, and drag things out with various legal motions,  
rather than actually lose the case.

Stroller.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: help

[Mick]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: Text/Plain, Size: 1287 bytes --]

On Monday 22 March 2010 22:04:24 KH wrote:
> Am 22.03.2010 23:01, schrieb Stroller:
> > On 22 Mar 2010, at 19:21, KH wrote:
> >> Am 22.03.2010 20:17, schrieb Mick:
> >>> TBH, I wouldn't pay money for it but as many OEM impose a MSWindows
> >>> tax on
> >>> all of us I had no other option if I wanted to buy this particular
> >>> laptop.
> >>
> >> You can refuse the license agreement and give windows back. If you are
> >> lucky, the vendor will give you some money back.
> >
> > Article in The Register about this this week. Dell may be refusing this
> > now.
> >
> > I read in a forum that the wording of the license terms has changed in
> > Vista or 7, to (basically) "return the whole system for a refund if you
> > don't like these terms".
> >
> > Stroller.
> 
> In Germany you are still free to sell the software to a third person who
> is insane enough to buy Windows ;-)

But how can you sell it - I think that it is an OEM license which will only 
run in the machine that Dell bought it for, from Microsoft.

I'll try running the image of the partition which I made when I bought it on 
another machine and see what gives if I get the time, but in the past I 
remember trying something similar and I could not get it to work.
-- 
Regards,
Mick

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: help

[KH]

Am 22.03.2010 23:51, schrieb Mick:

>>
>> In Germany you are still free to sell the software to a third person who
>> is insane enough to buy Windows ;-)
>
> But how can you sell it - I think that it is an OEM license which will only
> run in the machine that Dell bought it for, from Microsoft.
>
> I'll try running the image of the partition which I made when I bought it on
> another machine and see what gives if I get the time, but in the past I
> remember trying something similar and I could not get it to work.

I am not in that to deep. IIRC oem has no meaning in Germany. This is 
part of the license agreement what you have to accept after buying the 
software. Law says you have to accept it before or it is not part of the 
contract.
I never tried lately but you should be able to install from every Win CD 
you find and just use the code from that green sticker. There even is a 
tool you can download from Microsoft to change your key - like you once 
hat a pirated version with a cracked key and now you want to turn legal 
again. Download the tool, enter the code you bought, you are done 
without installing everything again.

But again I don't know if it works in every constellation nor if it is 
legal everywhere.

kh

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: help

[KH]

Oh and all of this started with a email just saying "help". Wander what 
another word could have done.

kh

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: help

[Dale]

KH wrote:
>
> Oh and all of this started with a email just saying "help". Wander 
> what another word could have done.
>
> kh
>
>

Maybe he should have said PLEASE help.  lol

Where is the OP anyway?

Dale

:-)

[gentoo-user] Re: help

[walt]

On 03/22/2010 04:21 PM, KH wrote:
 > ...
> There even is a tool you can download from Microsoft to change your key -
 > like you once hat a pirated version with a cracked key and now you want to
 > turn legal again. Download the tool, enter the code you bought, you are
 > done without installing everything again...

Those boys at M$ are such jokers.  The big pitch is "DANGER, your pirated
copy of Windows may not be safe!  Who knows what evil lurks in pirated
software!?!"

But, once you fork over the money for a valid key, all that "DANGER/evil"
is exorcised forever.  I wish I could write smart software like that.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: help

[KH]

Am 23.03.2010 01:51, schrieb walt:
> On 03/22/2010 04:21 PM, KH wrote:
>  > ...
>> There even is a tool you can download from Microsoft to change your key -
>  > like you once hat a pirated version with a cracked key and now you
> want to
>  > turn legal again. Download the tool, enter the code you bought, you are
>  > done without installing everything again...
>
> Those boys at M$ are such jokers. The big pitch is "DANGER, your pirated
> copy of Windows may not be safe! Who knows what evil lurks in pirated
> software!?!"
>
> But, once you fork over the money for a valid key, all that "DANGER/evil"
> is exorcised forever. I wish I could write smart software like that.
>
>

Well I guess it is for those people who can't get bug fixes anymore 
because the update site knows they have pirate software ...

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: help

[Stroller]

On 22 Mar 2010, at 23:21, KH wrote:
> ...  There even is a tool you can download from Microsoft to change  
> your key - like you once hat a pirated version with a cracked key  
> and now you want to turn legal again. Download the tool, enter the  
> code you bought, you are done without installing everything again.

It doesn't always work, though.

Stroller.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: help

[Zeerak Mustafa Waseem]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1558 bytes --]

On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 12:21:06AM +0100, KH wrote:
> Am 22.03.2010 23:51, schrieb Mick:
> 
> >>
> >> In Germany you are still free to sell the software to a third person who
> >> is insane enough to buy Windows ;-)
> >
> > But how can you sell it - I think that it is an OEM license which will only
> > run in the machine that Dell bought it for, from Microsoft.
> >
> > I'll try running the image of the partition which I made when I bought it on
> > another machine and see what gives if I get the time, but in the past I
> > remember trying something similar and I could not get it to work.
> 
> I am not in that to deep. IIRC oem has no meaning in Germany. This is 
> part of the license agreement what you have to accept after buying the 
> software. Law says you have to accept it before or it is not part of the 
> contract.
> I never tried lately but you should be able to install from every Win CD 
> you find and just use the code from that green sticker. There even is a 
> tool you can download from Microsoft to change your key - like you once 
> hat a pirated version with a cracked key and now you want to turn legal 
> again. Download the tool, enter the code you bought, you are done 
> without installing everything again.
> 
> But again I don't know if it works in every constellation nor if it is 
> legal everywhere.
> 
> kh
> 

I don't live -too- far off from Germany and take trips down there every now and again. Perhaps I should consider my next laptop purchase when I'm there.

-- 
Zeerak Waseem

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: help

[Stroller]

On 22 Mar 2010, at 22:51, Mick wrote:
>> ...
>> In Germany you are still free to sell the software to a third  
>> person who
>> is insane enough to buy Windows ;-)
>
> But how can you sell it - I think that it is an OEM license which  
> will only
> run in the machine that Dell bought it for, from Microsoft.

You can use a standard Windows OEM installation cd, such as the one  
that comes in this package <http://www.ebuyer.com/product/114048> with  
any Windows OEM license sticker.

If the sticker bears Dell, Compaq, Advent &c branding, this is  
irrelevant to the actual number on the sticker. You can copy a  
friend's CD and use that - I avoid manufacturer branded "restore" CDs,  
however.

Stroller.

[gentoo-user] Shhhhhhh... it's not a tax; it's actually a subsidy

[Walter Dnes]

On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 07:17:30PM +0000, Mick wrote

> TBH, I wouldn't pay money for it but as many OEM impose a MSWindows tax on 
> all of us I had no other option if I wanted to buy this particular laptop.

  Shhhhhhh... it's not a tax; it's actually.  The reason that so many
OEMs load up their new machines with "craplets" is because they get paid
good money by the publishers of these apps to load them on.  That in
turn reduces the price of a PC by more than what an OEM Windows licence
costs.


-- 
Walter Dnes <waltdnes@waltdnes.org>

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: help

[Stroller]

On 22 Mar 2010, at 17:05, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:

> On 03/22/2010 06:54 PM, Paul Hartman wrote:
>> On Sat, Mar 20, 2010 at 7:46 PM, Stroller
>> <stroller@stellar.eclipse.co.uk>  wrote:
>>>
>>> I was very impressed by Windows 7 recently. I installed it for a  
>>> customer
>>> and it seems wonderful. I even considered trying it myself, but I  
>>> realised
>>> that the inability to copy settings from one profile or machine to  
>>> another
>>> is a *complete* deal-breaker to me.
>>
>> [OT]
>>
>> In Windows XP it was called "Files and Settings Transfer Wizard". It
>> could be run from the Windows install CD or maybe it was installed as
>> well. You ran it on the source machine, then on the target machine  
>> and
>> it did its magic. It even carried over individual apps settings for
>> supported products (microsoft, adobe, etc). Did they get rid of that
>> tool in later versions of Windows?
>
> No, it's still there (and improved).  No idea why Stroller couldn't  
> find it.

I was given to believe it doesn't work under all circumstances.

http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.windows.vista.installation_setup/msg/4d069a4865067bad

It's not something I've had the time yet to dedicate to testing.

Stroller.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: help

[KH]

Am 20.03.2010 22:28, schrieb Nikos Chantziaras:
[...]
>
> And people still claim it's Microsoft products that are bugged... :P
>
>
They call it improvement and not bugfixing.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: help

[Neil Bothwick]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 362 bytes --]

On Sat, 20 Mar 2010 19:02:04 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:

> I thought it was obvious. His keyboard is broken and he needs help
> fixing it.

Or maybe he needs help turning off the white text on a white background
setting :)


-- 
Neil Bothwick

The trouble with doing something right the first time is that nobody
appreciates how difficult it was.

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: help

[Keith Dart]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 482 bytes --]

=== On Sat, 03/20, Neil Bothwick wrote: ===
> r maybe he needs help turning off the white text on a white background
> setting :)

===

This is the longest thread about nothing that I have ever seen. 


-- Keith Dart

-- 

-- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
   Keith Dart <keith@dartworks.biz>
   public key: ID: 19017044
   <http://www.dartworks.biz/>
   =====================================================================

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: help

[Hazen Valliant-Saunders]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 663 bytes --]

Score 2 points for mr. obvious. :D

On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 2:30 PM, Keith Dart <keith@dartworks.biz> wrote:

> === On Sat, 03/20, Neil Bothwick wrote: ===
> > r maybe he needs help turning off the white text on a white background
> > setting :)
>
> ===
>
> This is the longest thread about nothing that I have ever seen.
>
>
> -- Keith Dart
>
> --
>
> -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>   Keith Dart <keith@dartworks.biz>
>   public key: ID: 19017044
>   <http://www.dartworks.biz/>
>   =====================================================================
>



-- 
Hazen Valliant-Saunders
IT/IS Consultant
(613) 355-5977

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: help

[Dale]

Keith Dart wrote:
> === On Sat, 03/20, Neil Bothwick wrote: ===
>    
>> r maybe he needs help turning off the white text on a white background
>> setting :)
>>      
> ===
>
> This is the longest thread about nothing that I have ever seen.
>
>
> -- Keith Dart
>
>    

You ain't been around here to long then have ya?   lol  We have had 
longer.  Sometimes we just need someone to send a message with 
unsubscribe in it to start something.

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: help

[Alan McKinnon]

On Wednesday 24 March 2010 21:19:04 Dale wrote:
> Keith Dart wrote:
> > === On Sat, 03/20, Neil Bothwick wrote: ===
> > 
> >> r maybe he needs help turning off the white text on a white background
> >> setting :)
> > 
> > ===
> > 
> > This is the longest thread about nothing that I have ever seen.
> > 
> > 
> > -- Keith Dart
> 
> You ain't been around here to long then have ya?   lol  We have had
> longer.  Sometimes we just need someone to send a message with
> unsubscribe in it to start something.

And Dale himself holds the record for starting the longest email thread ever 
outside of UseNet.

It started with ... wait for it ... Xorg and hal!

It makes me just a little bit sad to see that the next version of Xorg (ebuild 
sitting in some testing proving ground somewhere) will not use hal at all. 
What will we talk about now on slow news days?

-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: help

[Alex Schuster]

Alan McKinnon asks:

> And Dale himself holds the record for starting the longest email thread
> ever outside of UseNet.
> 
> It started with ... wait for it ... Xorg and hal!
> 
> It makes me just a little bit sad to see that the next version of Xorg
> (ebuild sitting in some testing proving ground somewhere) will not use
> hal at all. What will we talk about now on slow news days?

I suggest KDE4. It's really getting on my nerves at the moment. But I 
don't want to quit using it either, now that I arranged my desktops and 
activities and plasmoids and stuff. Isn't KDE 4.5 about to be there soon 
and fix all those tings not running? No? 

	Wonko

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: help

[Zeerak Mustafa Waseem]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 962 bytes --]

On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 09:16:12PM +0100, Alex Schuster wrote:
> Alan McKinnon asks:
> 
> > And Dale himself holds the record for starting the longest email thread
> > ever outside of UseNet.
> > 
> > It started with ... wait for it ... Xorg and hal!
> > 
> > It makes me just a little bit sad to see that the next version of Xorg
> > (ebuild sitting in some testing proving ground somewhere) will not use
> > hal at all. What will we talk about now on slow news days?
> 
> I suggest KDE4. It's really getting on my nerves at the moment. But I 
> don't want to quit using it either, now that I arranged my desktops and 
> activities and plasmoids and stuff. Isn't KDE 4.5 about to be there soon 
> and fix all those tings not running? No? 
> 
> 	Wonko
> 

+1 for KDE4 ;)

I'm guessing 4.5 will fix some, not all, things and bring you a world of new flaws to explore! Consider yourself Dr. Livingstone in KDE world ;)

-- 
Zeerak Waseem

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: help

[Dale]

Alan McKinnon wrote:
> On Wednesday 24 March 2010 21:19:04 Dale wrote:
>    
>> Keith Dart wrote:
>>      
>>> === On Sat, 03/20, Neil Bothwick wrote: ===
>>>
>>>        
>>>> r maybe he needs help turning off the white text on a white background
>>>> setting :)
>>>>          
>>> ===
>>>
>>> This is the longest thread about nothing that I have ever seen.
>>>
>>>
>>> -- Keith Dart
>>>        
>> You ain't been around here to long then have ya?   lol  We have had
>> longer.  Sometimes we just need someone to send a message with
>> unsubscribe in it to start something.
>>      
> And Dale himself holds the record for starting the longest email thread ever
> outside of UseNet.
>
> It started with ... wait for it ... Xorg and hal!
>
> It makes me just a little bit sad to see that the next version of Xorg (ebuild
> sitting in some testing proving ground somewhere) will not use hal at all.
> What will we talk about now on slow news days?
>
>    

Then it will be policykit, devicekit or whatever the new name will be.

Since someone else mentioned KDE4, I do look forward to 4.5.  I'm hoping 
for some fixes too.  I want the desktop slideshow to be sequential 
instead of random.  I have a lot of pics that are taken to be a 
slideshow but if done in random order, they make no sense at all.   All 
I need is a little check box to disable the random part.

Maybe one day everything will be perfect. < Dale holds his breath >

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: help

[Alex Schuster]

Dale writes:

> Since someone else mentioned KDE4, I do look forward to 4.5.  I'm
> hoping for some fixes too.  I want the desktop slideshow to be
> sequential instead of random.  I have a lot of pics that are taken to
> be a slideshow but if done in random order, they make no sense at all.
> All I need is a little check box to disable the random part.

Is there a bug report files already?

> Maybe one day everything will be perfect. < Dale holds his breath >

But then KDE 4 will be outdated already and they are doing KDE 5. I heard 
it will have some really cool features and gizmos and stuff, you know!

	Wonko

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: help

[Dale]

Alex Schuster wrote:
> Dale writes:
>
>    
>> Since someone else mentioned KDE4, I do look forward to 4.5.  I'm
>> hoping for some fixes too.  I want the desktop slideshow to be
>> sequential instead of random.  I have a lot of pics that are taken to
>> be a slideshow but if done in random order, they make no sense at all.
>> All I need is a little check box to disable the random part.
>>      
> Is there a bug report files already?
>    

I haven't filed one.  I'm just hoping someone has.  Am I the only person 
that would take pictures intending them to be a slide show?  I know I'm 
"different" but surely not that much.   ;-)

>    
>> Maybe one day everything will be perfect.<  Dale holds his breath>
>>      
> But then KDE 4 will be outdated already and they are doing KDE 5. I heard
> it will have some really cool features and gizmos and stuff, you know!
>
> 	Wonko
>
>    

I'm hoping that when they start releasing KDE5, they support KDE4 
longer.  The dropping of KDE3 was way to soon.  My brother wants to use 
Linux but I don't want to install KDE3 since it is not supported from a 
security point of view but I also don't want to install KDE4 which is 
still pretty buggy.  That said, I have been using KDE4 for several 
weeks.  My slide show is the only issue that I have yet to work around.  
I plan to install Mandriva for him.

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: help

[Frank Steinmetzger]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: Text/Plain, Size: 1001 bytes --]

Am Mittwoch, 24. März 2010 schrieb Dale:
> Alex Schuster wrote:
> > Dale writes:
> >> Since someone else mentioned KDE4, I do look forward to 4.5.  I'm
> >> hoping for some fixes too.  I want the desktop slideshow to be
> >> sequential instead of random.  I have a lot of pics that are taken to
> >> be a slideshow but if done in random order, they make no sense at all.
> >> All I need is a little check box to disable the random part.
> > 
> > Is there a bug report files already?
> 
> I haven't filed one.  I'm just hoping someone has.

*g* that’s the right approach. Last week I filed a bug for Amarok that’s been 
there for months now, so I assumed it was already known. It turned out that it 
wasn’t (at least to the devs).

If you are like me and don’t wanna create another bug tracker account just for 
one bug, I offer my help by filing the bug, if you want. ;-)
-- 
Gruß | Greetings | Qapla'
Emacs is a great operating system, which only lacks a good editor.

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: help

[Dale]

Frank Steinmetzger wrote:
> Am Mittwoch, 24. März 2010 schrieb Dale:
>    
>> Alex Schuster wrote:
>>      
>>> Dale writes:
>>>        
>>>> Since someone else mentioned KDE4, I do look forward to 4.5.  I'm
>>>> hoping for some fixes too.  I want the desktop slideshow to be
>>>> sequential instead of random.  I have a lot of pics that are taken to
>>>> be a slideshow but if done in random order, they make no sense at all.
>>>> All I need is a little check box to disable the random part.
>>>>          
>>> Is there a bug report files already?
>>>        
>> I haven't filed one.  I'm just hoping someone has.
>>      
> *g* that’s the right approach. Last week I filed a bug for Amarok that’s been
> there for months now, so I assumed it was already known. It turned out that it
> wasn’t (at least to the devs).
>
> If you are like me and don’t wanna create another bug tracker account just for
> one bug, I offer my help by filing the bug, if you want. ;-)
>    

If you wold like to that would be fine.  I would just like some way to 
disable the random part of the slide show.  The slide show in KDE3 was 
not random so I figure a option will be added at some point.  Then 
again, maybe not.

Thanks.

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: help

[Frank Steinmetzger]

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Am Donnerstag, 25. März 2010 schrieb Dale:

>>>>> I want the desktop slideshow to be sequential instead of random.
>>>> Is there a bug report files already?
>>> I haven't filed one.  I'm just hoping someone has.
>> If you are like me and don’t wanna create another bug tracker account
>> just for one bug, I offer my help by filing the bug, if you want. ;-)
> If you wold like to that would be fine.  I would just like some way to
> disable the random part of the slide show.

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=232517 :-)
-- 
Gruß | Greetings | Qapla'
"Do not handicap your children by making their lives easy." (R. Heinlein)

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: help

[Dale]

Frank Steinmetzger wrote:
> Am Donnerstag, 25. März 2010 schrieb Dale:
>
>    
>>>>>> I want the desktop slideshow to be sequential instead of random.
>>>>>>              
>>>>> Is there a bug report files already?
>>>>>            
>>>> I haven't filed one.  I'm just hoping someone has.
>>>>          
>>> If you are like me and don’t wanna create another bug tracker account
>>> just for one bug, I offer my help by filing the bug, if you want. ;-)
>>>        
>> If you wold like to that would be fine.  I would just like some way to
>> disable the random part of the slide show.
>>      
> https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=232517 :-)
>    

Yeppie !  Thanks for filing that for me.  Maybe it will pop up in a 
couple more releases.  Surely it can't be hard to disable it.  I would 
think it was harder to enable it.  lol

Thanks again.

Dale

:-)  :-)

[gentoo-user] Re: help

[KH]

Am 24.03.2010 23:18, schrieb Dale:
> Alex Schuster wrote:
>> Is there a bug report files already?
>
> I haven't filed one. I'm just hoping someone has.

Filling bug reports is important. I filled over 50 on b.g.o this year 
alone. All of them are version bumps or bad homepages. Some programs 
haven't been bumped for 5 years.

kh

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: help

[Dale]

KH wrote:
> Am 24.03.2010 23:18, schrieb Dale:
>> Alex Schuster wrote:
>>> Is there a bug report files already?
>>
>> I haven't filed one. I'm just hoping someone has.
>
> Filling bug reports is important. I filled over 50 on b.g.o this year 
> alone. All of them are version bumps or bad homepages. Some programs 
> haven't been bumped for 5 years.
>
> kh
>
>

That is true but I don't have a account there.  Someone else does so 
they filed it for me.  I don't guess it matters who files it as long as 
it is filed.

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: help

[Stroller]

On 29 Mar 2010, at 13:22, Dale wrote:
>> ...
>> Filling bug reports is important. I filled over 50 on b.g.o this  
>> year alone. All of them are version bumps or bad homepages. Some  
>> programs haven't been bumped for 5 years.
>
> That is true but I don't have a account there.  Someone else does so  
> they filed it for me.  I don't guess it matters who files it as long  
> as it is filed.

It's helpful if you can subscribe to email updates, and help test when  
revisions are available.

Sometimes an ebuild is posted to as an attachment to the bug - you  
download it and add it to your local overlay. Thus you may get the  
updated version before it's available in the Portage tree (some  
ebuilds are attached to bugs for packages which never become accepted)  
and you can at least add a "works for me" comment and encourage the  
devs by remarking how useful it is to you.

Stroller.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: help

[Paul Hartman]

On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 10:11 AM, Stroller
<stroller@stellar.eclipse.co.uk> wrote:
>
> On 29 Mar 2010, at 13:22, Dale wrote:
>>>
>>> ...
>>> Filling bug reports is important. I filled over 50 on b.g.o this year
>>> alone. All of them are version bumps or bad homepages. Some programs haven't
>>> been bumped for 5 years.
>>
>> That is true but I don't have a account there.  Someone else does so they
>> filed it for me.  I don't guess it matters who files it as long as it is
>> filed.
>
> It's helpful if you can subscribe to email updates, and help test when
> revisions are available.
>
> Sometimes an ebuild is posted to as an attachment to the bug - you download
> it and add it to your local overlay. Thus you may get the updated version
> before it's available in the Portage tree (some ebuilds are attached to bugs
> for packages which never become accepted) and you can at least add a "works
> for me" comment and encourage the devs by remarking how useful it is to you.

And even if you've got nothing new to contribute to the problem, you
can vote for bugs that are important to you.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: help

[Dale]

Paul Hartman wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 10:11 AM, Stroller
> <stroller@stellar.eclipse.co.uk>  wrote:
>    
>> On 29 Mar 2010, at 13:22, Dale wrote:
>>      
>>>> ...
>>>> Filling bug reports is important. I filled over 50 on b.g.o this year
>>>> alone. All of them are version bumps or bad homepages. Some programs haven't
>>>> been bumped for 5 years.
>>>>          
>>> That is true but I don't have a account there.  Someone else does so they
>>> filed it for me.  I don't guess it matters who files it as long as it is
>>> filed.
>>>        
>> It's helpful if you can subscribe to email updates, and help test when
>> revisions are available.
>>
>> Sometimes an ebuild is posted to as an attachment to the bug - you download
>> it and add it to your local overlay. Thus you may get the updated version
>> before it's available in the Portage tree (some ebuilds are attached to bugs
>> for packages which never become accepted) and you can at least add a "works
>> for me" comment and encourage the devs by remarking how useful it is to you.
>>      
> And even if you've got nothing new to contribute to the problem, you
> can vote for bugs that are important to you.
>
>    

This wasn't filed on Gentoo's bug report.  It was filed on KDE's bug 
report.  So it's not a ebuild issue, it's just a lack of coding from 
upstream.  I have a Gentoo account but I rarely file anything.

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: help

[dan blum]

If one tries to modify the ebuild and test a change, the system issues a file size error. How do you get around that?

--- On Mon, 3/29/10, Paul Hartman <paul.hartman+gentoo@gmail.com> wrote:

> From: Paul Hartman <paul.hartman+gentoo@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Re: help
> To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
> Date: Monday, March 29, 2010, 11:11 AM
> On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 10:11 AM,
> Stroller
> <stroller@stellar.eclipse.co.uk>
> wrote:
> >
> > On 29 Mar 2010, at 13:22, Dale wrote:
> >>>
> >>> ...
> >>> Filling bug reports is important. I filled
> over 50 on b.g.o this year
> >>> alone. All of them are version bumps or bad
> homepages. Some programs haven't
> >>> been bumped for 5 years.
> >>
> >> That is true but I don't have a account
> there.  Someone else does so they
> >> filed it for me.  I don't guess it matters
> who files it as long as it is
> >> filed.
> >
> > It's helpful if you can subscribe to email updates,
> and help test when
> > revisions are available.
> >
> > Sometimes an ebuild is posted to as an attachment to
> the bug - you download
> > it and add it to your local overlay. Thus you may get
> the updated version
> > before it's available in the Portage tree (some
> ebuilds are attached to bugs
> > for packages which never become accepted) and you can
> at least add a "works
> > for me" comment and encourage the devs by remarking
> how useful it is to you.
> 
> And even if you've got nothing new to contribute to the
> problem, you
> can vote for bugs that are important to you.
> 
> 

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: help

[Alan McKinnon]

On Tuesday 30 March 2010 01:57:05 dan blum wrote:
> If one tries to modify the ebuild and test a change, the system issues a
> file size error. How do you get around that?


ebuild /path/to/ebuild/file.ebuild manifest

explanation: man ebuild

However, your next --sync will revert your change. Copy the ebuild to your 
private overlay and modify it there to preserve your changes.

More details: portage documentation gotten via:

equery files portage | grep man






> 
> --- On Mon, 3/29/10, Paul Hartman <paul.hartman+gentoo@gmail.com> wrote:
> > From: Paul Hartman <paul.hartman+gentoo@gmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Re: help
> > To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
> > Date: Monday, March 29, 2010, 11:11 AM
> > On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 10:11 AM,
> > Stroller
> > <stroller@stellar.eclipse.co.uk>
> > 
> > wrote:
> > > On 29 Mar 2010, at 13:22, Dale wrote:
> > >>> ...
> > >>> Filling bug reports is important. I filled
> > 
> > over 50 on b.g.o this year
> > 
> > >>> alone. All of them are version bumps or bad
> > 
> > homepages. Some programs haven't
> > 
> > >>> been bumped for 5 years.
> > >> 
> > >> That is true but I don't have a account
> > 
> > there.  Someone else does so they
> > 
> > >> filed it for me.  I don't guess it matters
> > 
> > who files it as long as it is
> > 
> > >> filed.
> > > 
> > > It's helpful if you can subscribe to email updates,
> > 
> > and help test when
> > 
> > > revisions are available.
> > > 
> > > Sometimes an ebuild is posted to as an attachment to
> > 
> > the bug - you download
> > 
> > > it and add it to your local overlay. Thus you may get
> > 
> > the updated version
> > 
> > > before it's available in the Portage tree (some
> > 
> > ebuilds are attached to bugs
> > 
> > > for packages which never become accepted) and you can
> > 
> > at least add a "works
> > 
> > > for me" comment and encourage the devs by remarking
> > 
> > how useful it is to you.
> > 
> > And even if you've got nothing new to contribute to the
> > problem, you
> > can vote for bugs that are important to you.

-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: help

[Paul Hartman]

On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 4:41 PM, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
> Since someone else mentioned KDE4, I do look forward to 4.5.  I'm hoping for
> some fixes too.  I want the desktop slideshow to be sequential instead of
> random.  I have a lot of pics that are taken to be a slideshow but if done
> in random order, they make no sense at all.   All I need is a little check
> box to disable the random part.

If you're not afraid of doing a little scripting you might be able to
whip something together yourself using this:

http://kde-look.org/content/show.php/Scripted+Image+Wallpaper+Plugin?content=115147

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: help

[Dale]

Paul Hartman wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 4:41 PM, Dale<rdalek1967@gmail.com>  wrote:
>    
>> Since someone else mentioned KDE4, I do look forward to 4.5.  I'm hoping for
>> some fixes too.  I want the desktop slideshow to be sequential instead of
>> random.  I have a lot of pics that are taken to be a slideshow but if done
>> in random order, they make no sense at all.   All I need is a little check
>> box to disable the random part.
>>      
> If you're not afraid of doing a little scripting you might be able to
> whip something together yourself using this:
>
> http://kde-look.org/content/show.php/Scripted+Image+Wallpaper+Plugin?content=115147
>
>    

I would have to modify the script since it does random too.  If KDE4 
isn't broke now, I would surely finish it off if I started writing 
scripts.  LOL  I would think it could be disabled somehow but the folks 
on KDE mailing list couldn't find a way either.  I even searched around 
in the config files and maybe changing a USE flag.  Still nothing yet.  
I really think it will be there eventually tho.

Here's to hoping.

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: help

[KH]

Am 26.03.2010 00:24, schrieb Dale:
>
> I would have to modify the script since it does random too. If KDE4
> isn't broke now, I would surely finish it off if I started writing
> scripts. LOL I would think it could be disabled somehow but the folks on
> KDE mailing list couldn't find a way either. I even searched around in
> the config files and maybe changing a USE flag. Still nothing yet. I
> really think it will be there eventually tho.
>
> Here's to hoping.
>
> Dale
>
> :-) :-)
>

USE="-random" emerge kde4  -  Having something like that would be fun :-)

kh

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: help

[Dale]

KH wrote:
> Am 26.03.2010 00:24, schrieb Dale:
>>
>> I would have to modify the script since it does random too. If KDE4
>> isn't broke now, I would surely finish it off if I started writing
>> scripts. LOL I would think it could be disabled somehow but the folks on
>> KDE mailing list couldn't find a way either. I even searched around in
>> the config files and maybe changing a USE flag. Still nothing yet. I
>> really think it will be there eventually tho.
>>
>> Here's to hoping.
>>
>> Dale
>>
>> :-) :-)
>>
>
> USE="-random" emerge kde4  -  Having something like that would be fun :-)
>
> kh
>
>

Just for giggles:

root@smoker ~ # euse -i random
global use flags (searching: random)
************************************************************
no matching entries found

local use flags (searching: random)
************************************************************
no matching entries found
root@smoker ~ #

Maybe it will be added later.   LOL  What gets me, this is so simple and 
trivial.  It sure does mess up my slide show tho.

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: help

[Michael Edenfield]

On Wednesday 24 March 2010 15:41:57 Alan McKinnon wrote:

> It makes me just a little bit sad to see that the next version of Xorg
> (ebuild sitting in some testing proving ground somewhere) will not use hal
> at all. What will we talk about now on slow news days?

$5 says Dale won't get devicekit working either.

--K

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: help

[Zeerak Mustafa Waseem]

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On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 07:50:08PM -0400, Michael Edenfield wrote:
> On Wednesday 24 March 2010 15:41:57 Alan McKinnon wrote:
> 
> > It makes me just a little bit sad to see that the next version of Xorg
> > (ebuild sitting in some testing proving ground somewhere) will not use hal
> > at all. What will we talk about now on slow news days?
> 
> $5 says Dale won't get devicekit working either.
> 
> --K
> 

The problem about that one is that I doubt that anyone will bet against you ;)

-- 
Zeerak Waseem

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: help

[Dale]

Michael Edenfield wrote:
> On Wednesday 24 March 2010 15:41:57 Alan McKinnon wrote:
>
>    
>> It makes me just a little bit sad to see that the next version of Xorg
>> (ebuild sitting in some testing proving ground somewhere) will not use hal
>> at all. What will we talk about now on slow news days?
>>      
> $5 says Dale won't get devicekit working either.
>
> --K
>
>    

But I will try.  Funny thing is, hal works for everything BUT xorg.  :/

Dale

:-)  :-)