* [gentoo-user] Outputing 15.9kHz?
@ 2006-09-06 0:13 Grant
2006-09-06 13:18 ` Hans-Werner Hilse
0 siblings, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread
From: Grant @ 2006-09-06 0:13 UTC (permalink / raw
To: Gentoo mailing list
I'm trying to figure out if a device that converts a VGA output to a
component output for HDTV connection will work with a standard TV that
has component inputs.
I've been corresponding with an A/V guy who thinks the key will be
getting the computer to output at 15.9kHz as opposed to the 31-33kHz
of HDTV. I know I can specify specific HorizSync values in xorg.conf.
Can I expect my on-board video card to be capable of 15.9kHz? It's
in a Dell desktop that's a few years old.
- Grant
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* Re: [gentoo-user] Outputing 15.9kHz?
2006-09-06 0:13 [gentoo-user] Outputing 15.9kHz? Grant
@ 2006-09-06 13:18 ` Hans-Werner Hilse
2006-09-06 15:03 ` Grant
0 siblings, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread
From: Hans-Werner Hilse @ 2006-09-06 13:18 UTC (permalink / raw
To: gentoo-user
Hi,
On Tue, 5 Sep 2006 17:13:55 -0700 Grant <emailgrant@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm trying to figure out if a device that converts a VGA output to a
> component output for HDTV connection will work with a standard TV that
> has component inputs.
Your VGA card can probably generate that signal itself. You'll only
need an adapter for having the correct plugs. See
http://www.sput.nl/hardware/tv-x.html
In short: Besides proper frequencies, you need interlacing.
-hwh
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* Re: [gentoo-user] Outputing 15.9kHz?
2006-09-06 13:18 ` Hans-Werner Hilse
@ 2006-09-06 15:03 ` Grant
2006-09-06 18:12 ` Hans-Werner Hilse
0 siblings, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread
From: Grant @ 2006-09-06 15:03 UTC (permalink / raw
To: gentoo-user
> > I'm trying to figure out if a device that converts a VGA output to a
> > component output for HDTV connection will work with a standard TV that
> > has component inputs.
>
> Your VGA card can probably generate that signal itself. You'll only
> need an adapter for having the correct plugs. See
>
> http://www.sput.nl/hardware/tv-x.html
>
> In short: Besides proper frequencies, you need interlacing.
I just spoke to someone from Audio Authority which is the company that
makes the device I linked to:
http://www.digitalconnection.com/Products/Video/9a60.asp
The guy there says it won't work because a computer outputs a
non-interlaced signal and a standard TV uses interlaced. Basically,
exactly what you said. From your link, it looks like an interlaced
signal can be specifiec in xorg.conf which should solve that problem.
Is that right?
- Grant
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* Re: [gentoo-user] Outputing 15.9kHz?
2006-09-06 15:03 ` Grant
@ 2006-09-06 18:12 ` Hans-Werner Hilse
2006-09-13 1:21 ` Grant
0 siblings, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread
From: Hans-Werner Hilse @ 2006-09-06 18:12 UTC (permalink / raw
To: gentoo-user
Hi,
On Wed, 6 Sep 2006 08:03:48 -0700
Grant <emailgrant@gmail.com> wrote:
> The guy there says it won't work because a computer outputs a
> non-interlaced signal and a standard TV uses interlaced. Basically,
> exactly what you said. From your link, it looks like an interlaced
> signal can be specifiec in xorg.conf which should solve that problem.
> Is that right?
There might be some vga cards that can't output an interlaced signal.
But most should do pretty well. And I'm relatively sure you can't break
anything by trying it out. Take the modelines from the link I've given
and just try it out. And I did not talk about the different
synchronization behaviour (mentioned in the site I've linked, too), but
that's probably what your adapter does. So I would just give it a try.
I would do a "hot" plugin and not wait too long if there's no picture
appearing. No guarantees, though, but at that signal levels it
shouldn't hurt. People did that before...
-hwh
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* Re: [gentoo-user] Outputing 15.9kHz?
2006-09-06 18:12 ` Hans-Werner Hilse
@ 2006-09-13 1:21 ` Grant
2006-09-13 10:46 ` Hans-Werner Hilse
0 siblings, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread
From: Grant @ 2006-09-13 1:21 UTC (permalink / raw
To: gentoo-user
> > The guy there says it won't work because a computer outputs a
> > non-interlaced signal and a standard TV uses interlaced. Basically,
> > exactly what you said. From your link, it looks like an interlaced
> > signal can be specifiec in xorg.conf which should solve that problem.
> > Is that right?
>
> There might be some vga cards that can't output an interlaced signal.
> But most should do pretty well. And I'm relatively sure you can't break
> anything by trying it out. Take the modelines from the link I've given
> and just try it out. And I did not talk about the different
> synchronization behaviour (mentioned in the site I've linked, too), but
> that's probably what your adapter does. So I would just give it a try.
> I would do a "hot" plugin and not wait too long if there's no picture
> appearing. No guarantees, though, but at that signal levels it
> shouldn't hurt. People did that before...
Ok I finally got this device today:
http://mythic.tv/product_info.php?products_id=30
I'm using the modeline from this link:
http://www.sput.nl/hardware/tv-x.html
and my xorg.conf looks like this:
Section "Monitor"
Identifier "monitor1"
Modeline "736x485i" 14.16 736 760 824 904 485 491 496 525
interlace -hsync -vsync
EndSection
Section "Device"
Identifier "device1"
Driver "i810"
VideoRam 4096
EndSection
Section "Screen"
Identifier "screen1"
Device "device1"
Monitor "monitor1"
EndSection
Section "ServerLayout"
Identifier "layout1"
Screen "screen1"
InputDevice "mouse1" "CorePointer"
InputDevice "keyboard1" "CoreKeyboard"
EndSection
When I try to open an xfce4 desktop like this, the image is somewhat
scrambled and constantly rolls on the TV. It looks normal on a
monitor with the same settings.
/var/log/Xorg.0.log reports this:
(II) I810(0): monitor1: Using default hsync range of 28.00-33.00 kHz
(II) I810(0): monitor1: Using default vrefresh range of 43.00-72.00 Hz
(II) I810(0): Clock range: 9.50 to 163.00 MHz
(II) I810(0): Not using mode "736x485i" (unknown reason)
(II) I810(0): Not using default mode "640x350" (hsync out of range)
(II) I810(0): Not using default mode "320x175" (bad mode
clock/interlace/doublescan)
It continues through a long list of "Not using" resolutions, and then:
(--) I810(0): Virtual size is 640x480 (pitch 640)
(**) I810(0): *Default mode "640x480": 25.2 MHz, 31.5 kHz, 60.0 Hz
(II) I810(0): Modeline "640x480" 25.20 640 656 752 800 480 490 492
525 -hsync -vsync
I've tried the 640x480i modeline from the above link with the same results.
What do you guys think?
- Grant
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* Re: [gentoo-user] Outputing 15.9kHz?
2006-09-13 1:21 ` Grant
@ 2006-09-13 10:46 ` Hans-Werner Hilse
2006-09-14 8:32 ` Grant
0 siblings, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread
From: Hans-Werner Hilse @ 2006-09-13 10:46 UTC (permalink / raw
To: gentoo-user
Hi,
On Tue, 12 Sep 2006 18:21:44 -0700 Grant <emailgrant@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm using the modeline from this link:
>
> http://www.sput.nl/hardware/tv-x.html
>
> and my xorg.conf looks like this:
>
> Section "Monitor"
> Identifier "monitor1"
> Modeline "736x485i" 14.16 736 760 824 904 485 491 496 525
> interlace -hsync -vsync
> EndSection
> [...]
>
> When I try to open an xfce4 desktop like this, the image is somewhat
> scrambled and constantly rolls on the TV. It looks normal on a
> monitor with the same settings.
OK, that "rolling" is bad sync.
> /var/log/Xorg.0.log reports this:
>
> (II) I810(0): monitor1: Using default hsync range of 28.00-33.00 kHz
That's the culprit. You need to override defaults (TVs don't usually
have DDC, such no automatic detection) for hsync/vsync. Add a
"HorizSync" line to your xorg.conf:
Section "Monitor"
...
HorizSync 19.00-20.00
...
EndSection
Note that "VertRefresh" probably hasn't to be set, since its default is
sufficient.
> (II) I810(0): Not using mode "736x485i" (unknown reason)
Hm, I can not explain why this would be "unknown", though. For me, this
seems like another case of "hsync out of range"...
-hwh
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* Re: [gentoo-user] Outputing 15.9kHz?
2006-09-13 10:46 ` Hans-Werner Hilse
@ 2006-09-14 8:32 ` Grant
2006-09-15 14:14 ` Hans-Werner Hilse
0 siblings, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread
From: Grant @ 2006-09-14 8:32 UTC (permalink / raw
To: gentoo-user
> > I'm using the modeline from this link:
> >
> > http://www.sput.nl/hardware/tv-x.html
> >
> > and my xorg.conf looks like this:
> >
> > Section "Monitor"
> > Identifier "monitor1"
> > Modeline "736x485i" 14.16 736 760 824 904 485 491 496 525
> > interlace -hsync -vsync
> > EndSection
> > [...]
> >
> > When I try to open an xfce4 desktop like this, the image is somewhat
> > scrambled and constantly rolls on the TV. It looks normal on a
> > monitor with the same settings.
>
> OK, that "rolling" is bad sync.
>
> > /var/log/Xorg.0.log reports this:
> >
> > (II) I810(0): monitor1: Using default hsync range of 28.00-33.00 kHz
>
> That's the culprit. You need to override defaults (TVs don't usually
> have DDC, such no automatic detection) for hsync/vsync. Add a
> "HorizSync" line to your xorg.conf:
>
> Section "Monitor"
> ...
> HorizSync 19.00-20.00
> ...
> EndSection
I always seem to get hsync out of range errors trying to go this low.
I guess my card can't go as low as necessary.
- Grant
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* Re: [gentoo-user] Outputing 15.9kHz?
2006-09-14 8:32 ` Grant
@ 2006-09-15 14:14 ` Hans-Werner Hilse
2006-09-15 15:46 ` Grant
0 siblings, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread
From: Hans-Werner Hilse @ 2006-09-15 14:14 UTC (permalink / raw
To: gentoo-user
Hi,
(sorry, must have overlooked your last answer...)
On Thu, 14 Sep 2006 01:32:36 -0700 Grant <emailgrant@gmail.com> wrote:
> I always seem to get hsync out of range errors trying to go this low.
> I guess my card can't go as low as necessary.
Argh, my failure. I must have read "19.5 kHz" instead of 15.9 kHz, so
try a HorizSync of 15-16.
The exact frequency can probably be calculated from the modeline:
Modeline "736x485i" 14.16 736 760 824 904 485 491 496 525 interlace -hsync -vsync
would be
14.16MHz / 904 "virtual line lenght" = 15,66 kHz
I've also read values like 14.35 MHz for the pixel clock.
The i810 should work for pixel clock frequencies >= 9,5 MHz (the driver
sources tell that), so it *should* work.
-hwh
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* Re: [gentoo-user] Outputing 15.9kHz?
2006-09-15 14:14 ` Hans-Werner Hilse
@ 2006-09-15 15:46 ` Grant
0 siblings, 0 replies; 9+ messages in thread
From: Grant @ 2006-09-15 15:46 UTC (permalink / raw
To: gentoo-user
> (sorry, must have overlooked your last answer...)
>
> On Thu, 14 Sep 2006 01:32:36 -0700 Grant <emailgrant@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I always seem to get hsync out of range errors trying to go this low.
> > I guess my card can't go as low as necessary.
>
> Argh, my failure. I must have read "19.5 kHz" instead of 15.9 kHz, so
> try a HorizSync of 15-16.
>
> The exact frequency can probably be calculated from the modeline:
>
> Modeline "736x485i" 14.16 736 760 824 904 485 491 496 525 interlace -hsync -vsync
>
> would be
>
> 14.16MHz / 904 "virtual line lenght" = 15,66 kHz
>
> I've also read values like 14.35 MHz for the pixel clock.
>
> The i810 should work for pixel clock frequencies >= 9,5 MHz (the driver
> sources tell that), so it *should* work.
It doesn't seem to want to go below 26, plus the source specifically
says interlacing is not supported. I tried it with a couple other
video cards I have with the same results as far as the sync.
I really appreciate your help, but I'm going to go ahead return the
9a60 and get an HDTV.
- Grant
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2006-09-06 0:13 [gentoo-user] Outputing 15.9kHz? Grant
2006-09-06 13:18 ` Hans-Werner Hilse
2006-09-06 15:03 ` Grant
2006-09-06 18:12 ` Hans-Werner Hilse
2006-09-13 1:21 ` Grant
2006-09-13 10:46 ` Hans-Werner Hilse
2006-09-14 8:32 ` Grant
2006-09-15 14:14 ` Hans-Werner Hilse
2006-09-15 15:46 ` Grant
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