[gentoo-user] Xorg on my server (talk me out if it?)

[gentoo-user] Xorg on my server (talk me out if it?)

[Grant]

I need to have VMware installed on my web server to test updates. 
I've been searching for a way to do this without installing X for a
while, and it just doesn't seem do-able.

Anyway, I'm about to install xorg on there and it seems like an
important decision.  I'm wondering if anyone will tell me to hit the
brakes?

- Grant

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Re: [gentoo-user] Xorg on my server (talk me out if it?)

[Andrew Gaffney]

Grant wrote:
> I need to have VMware installed on my web server to test updates. 
> I've been searching for a way to do this without installing X for a
> while, and it just doesn't seem do-able.
> 
> Anyway, I'm about to install xorg on there and it seems like an
> important decision.  I'm wondering if anyone will tell me to hit the
> brakes?

What's wrong with a chroot? You can test updates to everything except the 
kernel. If you need that too, try UML.

-- 
Andrew Gaffney
Gentoo Linux Developer
Installer Project

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Re: [gentoo-user] Xorg on my server (talk me out if it?)

[Grant]

> > I need to have VMware installed on my web server to test updates.
> > I've been searching for a way to do this without installing X for a
> > while, and it just doesn't seem do-able.
> >
> > Anyway, I'm about to install xorg on there and it seems like an
> > important decision.  I'm wondering if anyone will tell me to hit the
> > brakes?
> 
> What's wrong with a chroot? You can test updates to everything except the
> kernel. If you need that too, try UML.
> 

I'm definitely still a beginner.  A chroot would allow me to do this? 
Would I even need VMware in that case?

What I'd like to be able to do is copy my current Gentoo server system
over to something (chroot, VMware, UML) and test emerges and
etc-updates on it to make sure nothing is broken.  I would like to be
able to to test kernel changes, but I can live without it.  UML
actually won't work at all because I use the hardened-sources.

- Grant

> --
> Andrew Gaffney
> Gentoo Linux Developer
> Installer Project

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Re: [gentoo-user] Xorg on my server (talk me out if it?)

[James Colannino]

Grant wrote:

>> <>I'm definitely still a beginner. A chroot would allow me to do this?
>> Would I even need VMware in that case?
>>
>> What I'd like to be able to do is copy my current Gentoo server system
>> over to something (chroot, VMware, UML) and test emerges and
>> etc-updates on it to make sure nothing is broken. I would like to be
>> able to to test kernel changes, but I can live without it. UML
>> actually won't work at all because I use the hardened-sources.
>

You'll be able to test just about everything except kernel changes.  For 
kernel changes, you'll need either VMWare or another machine.

James

-- 
My blog: http://www.crazydrclaw.com/
My homepage: http://james.colannino.org/

"Black holes are where God divided by zero." --Steven Wright


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Re: [gentoo-user] Xorg on my server (talk me out if it?)

[Grant]

> >> <>I'm definitely still a beginner. A chroot would allow me to do this?
> >> Would I even need VMware in that case?
> >>
> >> What I'd like to be able to do is copy my current Gentoo server system
> >> over to something (chroot, VMware, UML) and test emerges and
> >> etc-updates on it to make sure nothing is broken. I would like to be
> >> able to to test kernel changes, but I can live without it. UML
> >> actually won't work at all because I use the hardened-sources.
> >
> 
> You'll be able to test just about everything except kernel changes.  For
> kernel changes, you'll need either VMWare or another machine.
> 

That sounds pretty good to me.  I'm sorry to persist, but I'd like to
make sure this will work for me before I delve in.

What do you mean by "just about everything"?  All I really need to be
able to do is browse the test version of my website and make sure
everything is working OK after making the changes.  Ideally,
everything in the test version of my OS would be working exactly the
same way as it does in the live version.  What would the differences
be with this chroot setup?  For example, with VMware, the hardware is
virtualized so you can't be sure there won't be hardware issues with
the live version.

- Grant

> James

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Re: [gentoo-user] Xorg on my server (talk me out if it?)

[Bastian Balthazar Bux]

Grant wrote:

>>>><>I'm definitely still a beginner. A chroot would allow me to do this?
>>>>Would I even need VMware in that case?
>>>>
>>>>What I'd like to be able to do is copy my current Gentoo server system
>>>>over to something (chroot, VMware, UML) and test emerges and
>>>>etc-updates on it to make sure nothing is broken. I would like to be
>>>>able to to test kernel changes, but I can live without it. UML
>>>>actually won't work at all because I use the hardened-sources.
>>>>        
>>>>
>>You'll be able to test just about everything except kernel changes.  For
>>kernel changes, you'll need either VMWare or another machine.
>>
>>    
>>
>
>That sounds pretty good to me.  I'm sorry to persist, but I'd like to
>make sure this will work for me before I delve in.
>
>What do you mean by "just about everything"?  All I really need to be
>able to do is browse the test version of my website and make sure
>everything is working OK after making the changes.  Ideally,
>everything in the test version of my OS would be working exactly the
>same way as it does in the live version.  What would the differences
>be with this chroot setup?  For example, with VMware, the hardware is
>virtualized so you can't be sure there won't be hardware issues with
>the live version.
>
>- Grant
>  
>
With a chroot you share the same devices (you do it with mount -obind 
/dev/ /some/chroot/path/dev ) and the same kernel.
This translate in that you can running all that don't interfere with non 
chrooted processes.
examples from my expirience:
1) You are running apache in the "real" server, it use port 80, some 
devices read only (i.e /dev/null /dev/urandom etc) and the /dev/log link 
to the syslogger.
So you can't run another apache in the chroot on port 80. but if u 
change the configuration file to make it listen on port 8080 you are ok.

2) I had a opteron (64bit) machine and want to make IBM informix 
database server running on it. Informix is a proprietary database that 
don't have x86-64 libraries, and they don't link with a 64 bit enabled 
system. I've builded a 32 bit system, and make running database server 
inside, also there is a telnet server that run in the environment or the 
database server.
In this configuration I need also a cron daemon, in both the 
environments, here the solution is to make it running in the "father" 
system and chroot every command that should be run in the chrooted 
environment

There are also a lot of examples of chroot devoted to security.

A great part of the gentoo installation is done in chroot, the manuals 
explain how to do the chroot from the livecd, but you can apply most of 
that to a normal installed/running system.

Know in advance that you will need to study and learn a lot of stuff, 
expecially if this is a real commercial environment.

francesco

>  
>
>>James
>>    
>>
>
>--
>  
>


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Re: [gentoo-user] Xorg on my server (talk me out if it?)

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Sun, 5 Dec 2004 10:12:24 -0800, Grant wrote:

> I need to have VMware installed on my web server to test updates. 
> I've been searching for a way to do this without installing X for a
> while, and it just doesn't seem do-able.

Why run VMWare on the server? Run a clone of the server in a VMWare
machine on a desktop computer. Test updates on there and then update the
server the same when you know everything is OK.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Did you know that eskimos have 17 different words for linguist?

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Re: [gentoo-user] Xorg on my server (talk me out if it?)

[Grant]

> > I need to have VMware installed on my web server to test updates.
> > I've been searching for a way to do this without installing X for a
> > while, and it just doesn't seem do-able.
> 
> Why run VMWare on the server? Run a clone of the server in a VMWare
> machine on a desktop computer. Test updates on there and then update the
> server the same when you know everything is OK.
> 

That does sound pretty good, especially since VMware just virtualizes
all of your hardware anyway.

There seem to be a few different options here.  Here's a summary:

*User-Mode-Linux
You have to use the usermode-sources for your guest OS or patch your
(vanilla) kernel.  If that's not what you're running on your host OS,
your tests are less complete.  The devs are also set up differently on
the guest OS.

*VMware Workstation
You have to have X installed on the system.  You can use xvfb instead
( http://www.vttoth.com/vmvfb.htm )
( http://www.lemoncube.com/104.html )
but that seems to end up a lot like having full-blown X.  xvfb is also
not in Portage and seems difficult to put together.  The other option
(mentioned in this thread) is setting up the test OS on a workstation
instead of the server.  This would change things a bit more from the
way they are on the live system so your tests are a bit less complete.

*chroot
You can't test changes to the kernel.

*separate box
Expensive.

- Grant

> --
> Neil Bothwick

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Re: [gentoo-user] Xorg on my server (talk me out if it?)

[Tom Wesley]

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On Sun, 2004-12-05 at 13:37 -0800, Grant wrote:
> > > I need to have VMware installed on my web server to test updates.
> > > I've been searching for a way to do this without installing X for a
> > > while, and it just doesn't seem do-able.
> > 
> > Why run VMWare on the server? Run a clone of the server in a VMWare
> > machine on a desktop computer. Test updates on there and then update the
> > server the same when you know everything is OK.
> > 
> 
> That does sound pretty good, especially since VMware just virtualizes
> all of your hardware anyway.
> 
> There seem to be a few different options here.  Here's a summary:
> 
> *User-Mode-Linux
> You have to use the usermode-sources for your guest OS or patch your
> (vanilla) kernel.  If that's not what you're running on your host OS,
> your tests are less complete.  The devs are also set up differently on
> the guest OS.
> 
> *VMware Workstation
> You have to have X installed on the system.  You can use xvfb instead
> ( http://www.vttoth.com/vmvfb.htm )
> ( http://www.lemoncube.com/104.html )
> but that seems to end up a lot like having full-blown X.  xvfb is also
> not in Portage and seems difficult to put together.  The other option
> (mentioned in this thread) is setting up the test OS on a workstation
> instead of the server.  This would change things a bit more from the
> way they are on the live system so your tests are a bit less complete.
> 
> *chroot
> You can't test changes to the kernel.
> 
> *separate box
> Expensive.
> 
> - Grant

I've not looked into it too much, but is there anything wrong with qemu?

-- 
Tom Wesley <tom@tomaw.org>

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