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(93-80-88-63.broadband.corbina.ru [93.80.88.63]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id l12sm541238fgb.13.2009.04.18.20.48.41 (version=SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Sat, 18 Apr 2009 20:48:46 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <49EA9EB2.9070006@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 23:46:58 -0400 From: 7v5w7go9ub0o <7v5w7go9ub0o@gmail.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (X11/20090320) Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Subject: [gentoo-user] Re: KDE 4.2.1 : goodbye & good riddance References: <20090414163618.GB23359@ca.inter.net> <5bdc1c8b0904140956k42d1098by6ee50e6d902aa1c@mail.gmail.com> <20090415051207.5b9be2a0@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <20090415051207.5b9be2a0@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archives-Salt: 4baeda50-b1c8-47c3-9c2d-626cef59e496 X-Archives-Hash: f984c9879631cc37f69d598067d345b0 Jorge Morais wrote: > On Tue, 14 Apr 2009 09:56:20 -0700 Mark Knecht > wrote: > >> While not a KDE user I echo your thoughts. I'm personally a bit >> worried about Gentoo overlords sort of pushing this hald thing with >> reasons like 'Gnome's automounting depends on it'. > Where have you got that from? I have not heard of that. I don't use > hal either, and I have -hal in /etc/make.conf > >> I started in Linux about 12 years ago and the best environment for >> my needs at that time (audio recording, 32 channels of live audio, >> real-time kernels, Ardour, etc.) was fluxbox. Low overhead. Easily >> customizable. Every time I get fed up with Gnome I go back to >> fluxbox. Takes a few minutes to build, not hours like Gnome or days >> like KDE. Not a great environment for my wife and kids, so they >> get Gnome. > I have used Xfce at version 4.4.2 (or 4.4.3, I don't remember) and I > think it has a lot of user-friendliness. And it is even similar to > GNOME, so GNOME users will feel at home. I think Xubuntu is a good > example of a well put together Xfce desktop. I don't agree with every > Xubuntu choice for default apps, but it is a great start if you want > to build a user-friendly, lightweight, customizable desktop with > Xfce plus the right applications. So if you like simplicity and > lightweight, but think your wife won't like fluxbox, give Xfce a try. > Maybe even fluxbox could be configured and combined with the right > applications to be easy to use, but starting with Xfce would probably > be much easier (I say "probably" because I have never performed > either of these tasks). On the other hand, maybe you should continue > giving GNOME to your wife simply because GNOME is much more common > than Xfce and, by knowing GNOME, she is more likely to know how to > use another GNU/Linux computer, and if she needs technical support > from, say, the ISP, the technicians are more likely to know GNOME and > Xfce. > > For the record, I have moved from Xfce to LXDE because I am a speed > freak and also a simplicity freak. More on simplicity below. > >> I hope the future of Linux desktops doesn't look anything like >> Windows. Sometimes it seems to me we're moving too far that >> direction too fast. > I get that feeling too. When I use Ubuntu and something fails, > sometimes I feel it is hard to diagnose and fix the problem. Maybe > this is the cost of things being "automagic": when it works, great, > but when it doesn't work, you've got to be a wizard to fix it. > > Car analogy: A person with mediocre knowledge of car mechanics can > understand how a classical car works, and doesn't complain that the > transmission is manual. He can even fix simple problems. A person > with good knowledge of car mechanics can even fix more serious > problems, because the car is simple, and many of its parts can be > serviced by an interested man. > > But a modern car... With all of its automatic transmission and > everything, one does not even need mediocre knowledge to drive it; > but to understand how it works is hard. To fix simple problems is > harder. To fix serious problems, one needs complex tools and specific > knowledge that is almost beyond the reach of the common man. > > So I think that "automagic" things often tend to be harder to > understand and much harder to fix. > > But so far, Ubuntu is actually *more* "automagic" than Windows but > more open, easier to understand and easier to fix (Windows is a badly > documented black box). > > And a Gentoo desktop is easier to understand and fix than Ubuntu. > Specially if the user selected simple software such as Xfce or, even > simpler, LXDE. Of course, you can theorize that at least part of this > impression of mine is caused by me being used to my simple no-hal > no-nothing LXDE Gentoo desktop and me being unfamiliar with Ubuntu. > > > Regards, Jorge > Heh..... Your overall "attitude", as suggested by the above, rang a sympathetic sound with me. So, I figured that even though LXDE couldn't be faster than my beloved fluxbox, I'd at least give it a try. WOW! It (seems) *significantly* faster than flux both in initial loading, and in the operation of windowed applications. Certain window activity (e.g. lightning "alarms" on TBird) now display as intended (something that I couldn't get working in FB). Only downside ...may... be the documentation; but everything is pretty intuitive so far. It stays. Ditto everything you said. Thanks!!!