From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org ([208.92.234.80] helo=lists.gentoo.org) by finch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Lpvdf-0005p9-GT for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Sat, 04 Apr 2009 02:29:43 +0000 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id F01C6E098F; Sat, 4 Apr 2009 02:29:14 +0000 (UTC) Received: from yx-out-1718.google.com (yx-out-1718.google.com [74.125.44.157]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C94D5E098F for ; Sat, 4 Apr 2009 02:29:14 +0000 (UTC) Received: by yx-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id 6so954926yxn.46 for ; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 19:29:14 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from :user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=8D0Dm1T6S71pdnoH/7VO/nmjJnWT0L6iVjwY2i7H//Y=; b=EKKkqqXIzNrvaWNGORBVy5oFMBaK2hAEq46lDAyifcn8UwTKtTujN2rDbiz41izmX4 a/OtGAa9HBcqtJd3AA2Xw8ztAEKQJqpifufP0HVQZZyzotuA7UGM7o7l9mCZ611rwFLg va6DSMPhmEiVHAMA7wWQTKEHr0T4X+2T7xUms= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=RihtdRQUozMksNCOIECV1CxLtUKW9r83hm4OVaYjryH3z/vVprt9s7jhUqNnmd8wiw S+jhm3SADc57h8uss4jUZtc1nz/zxNqAa5db17gW51srFfwbim5S/hRhiRLdPOVFLiH1 Z5IaZ7btRLs6XahZuUvWKMaTL/WVmj96DZCtI= Received: by 10.90.113.11 with SMTP id l11mr1132116agc.74.1238812154485; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 19:29:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gentoo-everex.local (cpe-72-185-51-230.tampabay.res.rr.com [72.185.51.230]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 4sm7966501yxj.1.2009.04.03.19.29.12 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Fri, 03 Apr 2009 19:29:13 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <49D6C5F6.7060608@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 03 Apr 2009 22:29:10 -0400 From: Saphirus Sage User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (X11/20090323) Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Re: What annoys you? References: <200904032138.27789.volkerarmin@googlemail.com> <200904032215.40448.volkerarmin@googlemail.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archives-Salt: 127f5bbd-c215-4b3a-8498-5ef081e48717 X-Archives-Hash: d9153cdf88ce2b5565879e0b8406d0d8 Nikos Chantziaras wrote: > Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: >> On Friday 03 April 2009, Nikos Chantziaras wrote: >>> Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: >>>> On Friday 03 April 2009, Nikos Chantziaras wrote: >>>>> Its installer. I would prefer something like Sabayon's installer >>>>> (which >>>>> is a Gentoo-based distro.) >>>> there is no installer anymore. And that is a good thing. >>> He asked what annoys me, and I answered truthfully :P >> >> yeah, but if you think about it for a moment you will see that an >> installer is the WRONG THING and then you won't be annoyed anymore >> but glad. > > I thought about it and I would still like an installer. People asked > me "I want that too" after they see what Gentoo can do and is about. > I could help them learn to keep their Gentoo healthy and running, but > I am not willing to install it for them or teach them how to install > it themselves. Too much work. So from my observational point, the > lack of an installer just means that people who would like to try > Gentoo just don't, because the learning curve is too steep, beginning > right at the installation. To learn, you need a system that already > runs so you can learn that system. Gentoo needs to be installed by > someone who already knows. Chicken and egg. > > If it wasn't for the GUI installer of the 2007 live DVD (it's what I > used to install it), I wouldn't ever have installed Gentoo. I have a > life. And so does the majority of other people. I learned Gentoo > (and I think I learned it quite well) even while I used the GUI > installer. And I believe even that I learned Gentoo the right way. I > am proof that an installer doesn't only produce clueless Gentoo users. > > I made my first install from the 2008.0 Minimal CD, which was all fun and good, but later on a laptop when I was completely unaware of initramfs, a LiveCD was my only way to actually manage to install Gentoo. I can see how a completely "Wizard-like" installer would go against a lot of what this distro seems to have centered as a primary focus, but it certainly could act as a way to influence more to use it. Then again, being something of a "developer' distro", where one will usually compile every package they install, it may have by that single mechanism lost a lot of those who would otherwise use it. Granted, it's a feature of Gentoo I rather like.