[gentoo-user] The Linux Ecosystem (with funny references to Gentoo vs Canonical)

[gentoo-user] The Linux Ecosystem (with funny references to Gentoo vs Canonical)

[Nikos Chantziaras]

http://video.linuxfoundation.org/video/1069

I found it quite interesting that even Gentoo beat Canonical in the 
amount of patches contributed upstream...

Re: [gentoo-user] The Linux Ecosystem (with funny references to Gentoo vs Canonical)

[Saphirus Sage]

Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> http://video.linuxfoundation.org/video/1069
>
> I found it quite interesting that even Gentoo beat Canonical in the
> amount of patches contributed upstream...
>
>
Good find, I actually didn't know about E-Trade using Gentoo servers. I
don't think it should be too surprising that Gentoo would contribute
more patches than Conical, as until today, I'd only actually heard of
one of them.

Re: [gentoo-user] The Linux Ecosystem (with funny references to Gentoo vs Canonical)

[Joshua D Doll]

Saphirus Sage wrote:
> Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
>   
>> http://video.linuxfoundation.org/video/1069
>>
>> I found it quite interesting that even Gentoo beat Canonical in the
>> amount of patches contributed upstream...
>>
>>
>>     
> Good find, I actually didn't know about E-Trade using Gentoo servers. I
> don't think it should be too surprising that Gentoo would contribute
> more patches than Conical, as until today, I'd only actually heard of
> one of them.
>
>
>   
This video brought up an interesting question by my friend (an ubuntu 
user). How would one go about getting Canonical or the ubuntu community 
to change their practice of not contributing fixes back upstream? 
Without having to change distributions.


--Joshua Doll

Re: [gentoo-user] The Linux Ecosystem (with funny references to Gentoo vs Canonical)

[Emil Jensen]

On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 4:51 PM, Joshua D Doll <joshua.doll@gmail.com> wrote:
> Saphirus Sage wrote:
>>
>> Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> http://video.linuxfoundation.org/video/1069
>>>
>>> I found it quite interesting that even Gentoo beat Canonical in the
>>> amount of patches contributed upstream...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Good find, I actually didn't know about E-Trade using Gentoo servers. I
>> don't think it should be too surprising that Gentoo would contribute
>> more patches than Conical, as until today, I'd only actually heard of
>> one of them.
>>
>>
>>
>
> This video brought up an interesting question by my friend (an ubuntu user).
> How would one go about getting Canonical or the ubuntu community to change
> their practice of not contributing fixes back upstream? Without having to
> change distributions.

I was sure I'd read something about Shuttleworth saying they were
going to start doing upstream fixes as it was one of their biggest
critisisms, and a quick google showed me this:

http://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2008/09/canonical-to-fund-upstream-linux-usability-improvements.ars

I haven't actually watched the linked video yet (as at work), but I
think my link is still on topic.

> --Joshua Doll
>
>

Re: [gentoo-user] The Linux Ecosystem (with funny references to Gentoo vs Canonical)

[Mick]

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On Tuesday 10 February 2009, Joshua D Doll wrote:
> Saphirus Sage wrote:
> > Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> >> http://video.linuxfoundation.org/video/1069
> >>
> >> I found it quite interesting that even Gentoo beat Canonical in the
> >> amount of patches contributed upstream...
> >
> > Good find, I actually didn't know about E-Trade using Gentoo servers. I
> > don't think it should be too surprising that Gentoo would contribute
> > more patches than Conical, as until today, I'd only actually heard of
> > one of them.
>
> This video brought up an interesting question by my friend (an ubuntu
> user). How would one go about getting Canonical or the ubuntu community
> to change their practice of not contributing fixes back upstream?
> Without having to change distributions.

Gentoo involves you more with what goes bad under the bonnet and the average 
Gentoo user is more interested in the workings of their OS to attempt 
troubleshooting it and filing bugs.  Your average Ubuntu user is less likely 
to get their hands dirty, unless they are a dev.  So, essentially we are 
talking about different user profiles here.  To answer your friend's 
hypothetical question - he would either have to change your average Ubuntu's 
user technical aptitude, or change the user.  Either attempt may mean the end 
of Ubuntu as we know it.
-- 
Regards,
Mick

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Re: [gentoo-user] The Linux Ecosystem (with funny references to Gentoo vs Canonical)

[Roy Wright]

Mick wrote:
> On Tuesday 10 February 2009, Joshua D Doll wrote:
>> Saphirus Sage wrote:
>>> Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
>>>> http://video.linuxfoundation.org/video/1069
>>>>
>>>> I found it quite interesting that even Gentoo beat Canonical in the
>>>> amount of patches contributed upstream...
>>> Good find, I actually didn't know about E-Trade using Gentoo servers. I
>>> don't think it should be too surprising that Gentoo would contribute
>>> more patches than Conical, as until today, I'd only actually heard of
>>> one of them.
>> This video brought up an interesting question by my friend (an ubuntu
>> user). How would one go about getting Canonical or the ubuntu community
>> to change their practice of not contributing fixes back upstream?
>> Without having to change distributions.
> 
> Gentoo involves you more with what goes bad under the bonnet and the average 
> Gentoo user is more interested in the workings of their OS to attempt 
> troubleshooting it and filing bugs.  Your average Ubuntu user is less likely 
> to get their hands dirty, unless they are a dev.  So, essentially we are 
> talking about different user profiles here.  To answer your friend's 
> hypothetical question - he would either have to change your average Ubuntu's 
> user technical aptitude, or change the user.  Either attempt may mean the end 
> of Ubuntu as we know it.

The ubuntus are targeted at disgruntled windows users while gentoo is 
targeted at unix users.  The former are used to complaining and getting 
no response while the later know it's their responsibility to help make 
it better...

Have fun,
Roy

[gentoo-user] Re: The Linux Ecosystem (with funny references to Gentoo vs Canonical)

[Nikos Chantziaras]

Roy Wright wrote:
> [...]
> The ubuntus are targeted at disgruntled windows users while gentoo is 
> targeted at unix users.  The former are used to complaining and getting 
> no response while the later know it's their responsibility to help make 
> it better...

"Works for me."

;)

Re: [gentoo-user] The Linux Ecosystem (with funny references to Gentoo vs Canonical)

[Joshua D Doll]

Roy Wright wrote:
> Mick wrote:
>> On Tuesday 10 February 2009, Joshua D Doll wrote:
>>> Saphirus Sage wrote:
>>>> Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
>>>>> http://video.linuxfoundation.org/video/1069
>>>>>
>>>>> I found it quite interesting that even Gentoo beat Canonical in the
>>>>> amount of patches contributed upstream...
>>>> Good find, I actually didn't know about E-Trade using Gentoo 
>>>> servers. I
>>>> don't think it should be too surprising that Gentoo would contribute
>>>> more patches than Conical, as until today, I'd only actually heard of
>>>> one of them.
>>> This video brought up an interesting question by my friend (an ubuntu
>>> user). How would one go about getting Canonical or the ubuntu community
>>> to change their practice of not contributing fixes back upstream?
>>> Without having to change distributions.
>>
>> Gentoo involves you more with what goes bad under the bonnet and the 
>> average Gentoo user is more interested in the workings of their OS to 
>> attempt troubleshooting it and filing bugs.  Your average Ubuntu user 
>> is less likely to get their hands dirty, unless they are a dev.  So, 
>> essentially we are talking about different user profiles here.  To 
>> answer your friend's hypothetical question - he would either have to 
>> change your average Ubuntu's user technical aptitude, or change the 
>> user.  Either attempt may mean the end of Ubuntu as we know it.
>
> The ubuntus are targeted at disgruntled windows users while gentoo is 
> targeted at unix users.  The former are used to complaining and 
> getting no response while the later know it's their responsibility to 
> help make it better...
>
> Have fun,
> Roy
>
>
I think you may be right with your assessment there Roy. The only 
solution I could up with was to change distributions he didn't like that 
suggestion, not sure why, because changing distros is like changing 
underwear. Maybe he has some strange fascination with Ubunutu's pretty 
color scheme?

--Joshua Doll
//

Re: [gentoo-user] The Linux Ecosystem (with funny references to Gentoo vs Canonical)

[Joost Roeleveld]

On Tue, February 10, 2009 11:12 pm, Joshua D Doll wrote:
> Roy Wright wrote:
>> Mick wrote:
>>> On Tuesday 10 February 2009, Joshua D Doll wrote:
>>>> Saphirus Sage wrote:
>>>>> Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
>>>>>> http://video.linuxfoundation.org/video/1069
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I found it quite interesting that even Gentoo beat Canonical in the
>>>>>> amount of patches contributed upstream...
>>>>> Good find, I actually didn't know about E-Trade using Gentoo
>>>>> servers. I
>>>>> don't think it should be too surprising that Gentoo would contribute
>>>>> more patches than Conical, as until today, I'd only actually heard of
>>>>> one of them.
>>>> This video brought up an interesting question by my friend (an ubuntu
>>>> user). How would one go about getting Canonical or the ubuntu
>>>> community
>>>> to change their practice of not contributing fixes back upstream?
>>>> Without having to change distributions.
>>>
>>> Gentoo involves you more with what goes bad under the bonnet and the
>>> average Gentoo user is more interested in the workings of their OS to
>>> attempt troubleshooting it and filing bugs.  Your average Ubuntu user
>>> is less likely to get their hands dirty, unless they are a dev.  So,
>>> essentially we are talking about different user profiles here.  To
>>> answer your friend's hypothetical question - he would either have to
>>> change your average Ubuntu's user technical aptitude, or change the
>>> user.  Either attempt may mean the end of Ubuntu as we know it.
>>
>> The ubuntus are targeted at disgruntled windows users while gentoo is
>> targeted at unix users.  The former are used to complaining and
>> getting no response while the later know it's their responsibility to
>> help make it better...
>>
>> Have fun,
>> Roy
>>
>>
> I think you may be right with your assessment there Roy. The only
> solution I could up with was to change distributions he didn't like that
> suggestion, not sure why, because changing distros is like changing
> underwear. Maybe he has some strange fascination with Ubunutu's pretty
> color scheme?

Wouldn't the following solve that though?
# echo "x11-themes/gtk-engines-ubuntulooks ~*"
# emerge gtk-engines-ubuntulooks

It's currently at version 0.9.12-r2. I have not used this, so I have no
clue how well this works.

--
Joost

Re: [gentoo-user] The Linux Ecosystem (with funny references to Gentoo vs Canonical)

[Philip Webb]

090210 Roy Wright wrote:
> The ubuntus are targeted at disgruntled windows users while gentoo is 
> targeted at unix users.  The former are used to complaining and getting no 
> response while the later know it's their responsibility to help make it 
> better...

In my commonplace book ... (smile)

-- 
========================,,============================================
SUPPORT     ___________//___,   Philip Webb
ELECTRIC   /] [] [] [] [] []|   Cities Centre, University of Toronto
TRANSIT    `-O----------O---'   purslowatchassdotutorontodotca

[gentoo-user] Re: The Linux Ecosystem (with funny references to Gentoo vs Canonical)

[Nicolas Sebrecht]

On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 08:41:39AM +0000, Mick wrote:

> > This video brought up an interesting question by my friend (an ubuntu
> > user). How would one go about getting Canonical or the ubuntu community
> > to change their practice of not contributing fixes back upstream?

It's all about dev mentality and habits. It a known issue with
Canonical. AFAIK, they are trying to change. That's what Mark
Shuttleworth did announce at least (don't know the facts).

>                                                   So, essentially we are 
> talking about different user profiles here.

The video is more about developpers than users. The upstream (as I
understand here from the video and the Joshua Doll's post) is what we
find upstream from the maintainers of the distribution. I guess that
Joshua wasn't talking about the users at all.

-- 
Nicolas Sebrecht

[gentoo-user] Re: The Linux Ecosystem (with funny references to Gentoo vs Canonical)

[Nicolas Sebrecht]

On Mon, Feb 09, 2009 at 09:51:26PM -0800, Joshua D Doll wrote:

> This video brought up an interesting question by my friend (an ubuntu 
> user). How would one go about getting Canonical or the ubuntu community to 
> change their practice of not contributing fixes back upstream? Without 
> having to change distributions.

From my point of view (and assuming he hasn't the knowledge as a user),
the best he can do is to ask what's going on upstream when filing a bug.
For instance he should ask for the version of the upstream package that
include the fix.

But in some (most ?) case, it wouldn't be appropriate as it could only
be an Ubuntu issue.

-- 
Nicolas Sebrecht

Re: [gentoo-user] The Linux Ecosystem (with funny references to Gentoo vs Canonical)

[Stroller]

On 10 Feb 2009, at 04:59, Saphirus Sage wrote:
> ...  I
> don't think it should be too surprising that Gentoo would contribute
> more patches than Conical, as until today, I'd only actually heard of
> one of them.

Canonical is Ubuntu.

Stroller.